Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-03-06 Steven Alan Hassan

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Wikipedia Mediation Cabal
Article: Steven Alan Hassan
State: Open
Requested By: John196920022001 (talk • contribs)
Other Parties: tilman (talk • contribs), Smee (talk • contribs)
Mediated By: Vassyana (talk • contribs)
Comments: Truce accepted. Sandbox drafts completed. Comparing differances between two versions of drafts for review. Asking for a compromise draft to be written.

Contents

[edit] Mediation Case: 2007-03-06 Steven Alan Hassan

Please observe Wikipedia:Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Mediation Cabal: Coordination Desk.


[edit] Request Information

Request made by: John196920022001 08:12, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Where is the issue taking place?
... Steve Alan Hassan, Talk:Steven Hassan
Who's involved?
... User: tilman, User: john196920022001
What's going on?
...Tilman changes my RS citation because he personally thinks it is questionable, and my way of citing is propoganda (please see discussion). Persona attack against me and my citations. It got me to respond in kind there for a while. The personal attacks have got to stop
What would you like to change about that?
... Want the attacks on me to stop, and for Tilman to used Wikipedia policy when making changes, not personal opinion
Would you prefer we work discreetly? If so, how can we reach you?
... john196920022001@yahoo.com

[edit] Mediator response

Case reopened per requestor. Contacting involved users. Vassyana 12:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC) Requests made of participants. Subpages made for draft editing of disputed section. Hold requested on editing disputed section of article. Vassyana 12:40, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Statement

I must strongly request the following:

  1. Assume good faith. Assumptions of bad faith will not lead to an agreeable solution. Please assume the other editors are acting in a good faith effort to adhere to Wikipedia policy and guidelines.
  2. In this mediation, I must strongly urge all involved editors to read and adhere to WP:COOL and WP:NAM. They are not policies or guidelines, but are central principles to a succesful mediation.
  3. Please refrain from editing the section under dispute at the main article until this mediation is resolved.

Thank you for your understanding. Vassyana 12:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Truce

This is an active truce.

  1. No personal attacks. All parties agree to refrain from insults and personal attacks on other editors, either directly, on talk pages or in edit summaries. Personal attacks instigate more conflict.
  2. Focus on content. All parties agree to refrain from commenting on other editors and instead focus on commenting on the content. We need to keep a cool head, be courteous and work towards improving Wikipedia.
  3. No outside battles. All parties agree to avoid edit wars with other participants, even outside of the coverage of this mediation. Edit battles, editing to prove a point and disruptive editing don't improve Wikipedia and distract us from productive activity.
  4. Good faith cooldown. Any party violating this truce shall take an 4 hour cool down break from interacting with the participant(s) that are part of the conflict. Other parties will not report the violating behaviour provided the offending editor take the self-imposed break. We all get a bit heated or passionate at times and should try to be understanding of others, but also aware of our own behaviour. Taking the break and not reporting the behaviour are both shows of good faith. If an editor chronically engages in unacceptable behaviour, they may be reported as appropriate. Also, if another editor breaks the terms of this truce, or otherwise behaves unacceptably, it is not a reason to do the same. Be cool, be courteous and take a short break if needed.

[edit] Participants

  1. Accept. Smee 03:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC).
  2. Accept John196920022001 09:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
  3. Accept --Tilman 05:53, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request

John, please edit this draft version of the section in dispute. Please edit it to reflect how you would like the article to read.

Smee, please edit this other draft version of the disputed section. As with my above request, edit it to show how you would like the article to read. If you are satisfied with the current version, simply sign off as "Done" below.

Tilman, please edit this other draft version of the disputed section. As with my above request, edit it to show how you would like the article to read. If you are satisfied with the current version, simply sign off as "Done" below.

The point of this exercise is to clearly show what changes each side would like. Once we have both versions of the draft to compare to each other, it may be easier to find points of agreement and work out a compromise. Vassyana 12:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Completed drafts

Please indicate below when you are finished working on your draft, so we can review it together and try to harmonize the two. Just sign your name with ~~~~ when it is done.

Proposal draft complete

  1. Done. --Tilman 19:48, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
  2. Done. --Smee 19:53, 17 March 2007 (UTC).
  3. Done. --John196920022001 15:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Acceptance of Mediation

Please indicate if you accept my assistance as an informal mediator:

  • Accept
  • Accept John196920022001 10:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Accept - Smee 17:07, 13 March 2007 (UTC).
  • Accept --Tilman 17:19, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Archives

First archive.
Second archive.

[edit] Compromise offers

This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.


[edit] Discussion

While using the talk page of the article in question to solve a dispute is encouraged to involve a larger audience, feel free to discuss the case below if that is not possible. Other mediators are also encouraged to join in on the discussion as Wikipedia is based on consensus.

Hello everyone! I am going out of town for a couple of days. I should be back early next week. If anything new arises, and I do not respond immediately, I will once I get back into town.Take care John196920022001 13:55, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed changes

Two participants approved the current version, with no changes. One participant, in draft, have proposed the following changes:

  • Hassan confirms that he took part in a number of involuntary deprogrammings in the late 1970s.
  • Hassan took part in a number of involuntary deprogrammings in the late 1970s.

Moderator comments: This seem to be a simple cleaning, making the sentance more concise.


  • Roselle agreed to listen.<ref>[http://www.freedomofmind.com/stevehassan/refuting/ ''Refuting the Disinformation Attacks Put Forth by Destructive Cults and their Agents''] <br>I acknowledge that I was involved with the Roselle deprogramming attempt in 1976. But I was never involved in violence of any kind. One main issue is that the family felt that they needed to secure him with a rope before I arrived at the neighbor's house. Skip had reportedly punched and bitten his father as well as friends of his from the football team who were very concerned about him. When I arrived and learned Skip was in the basement tied up and violent, I turned around to leave. it was his mother's tears and other family members who begged me to speak with him. I decided to go downstairs and with tears in my eyes, begged him to just listen to what I had to share with him and if he wanted to go back to the Moonies, he was free to do so. He agreed and we talked for days.</ref>
  • Roselle agreed to listen.<ref>[http://www.freedomofmind.com/stevehassan/refuting/roselle.htm ''Affidavit of Joanne Roselle'']</ref>

Moderator comments: This seems to be a fairly straightforward narrowing of the reference. I do not think this will be problematic for anyone.


  • Hassan states that he spent one year assisting with deprogrammings before turning to less controversial methods (see exit counseling).<ref name="refuting"/> Hassan has spoken out against involuntary deprogramming since 1980.<ref>Mind Warrior. ''New Therapist'' 24, March/April 2003.</ref><ref name="refuting"/> He states that he has not participated in any deprogrammings since then. However, in Combatting Cult Mind Control, he states that deprogrammings can be kept as a last resort if all other attempts fail.<ref>[[Combatting Cult Mind Control]]'', Steven Hassan, 1998, ISBN 0-8928124-3-5, p. 114</ref>
  • In Combatting Cult Mind Control Hassan stated, "I decided not to participate in forcible interventions, believing it was imperative to find another approach..." but later stated that " "[f]orcible intervention can be kept as a last resort if all other attempts fail." John B. Brown of the "Pagan Unity Campaign" has criticized that statement saying that the passage is "indicating that Hassan might resort to a forcible intervention if all other attempts fail." <ref>[http://www.cesnur.org/2006/sd_brown.htm Jehovah's Witnesses and the Anticult Movement: Human Rights Issues], John B. Brown, presented at CESNUR 2006 International Conference</ref>

Mediator comments: I think this change might be most contentious. Would someone be willing to work out a compromise text? Would someone like myself or an outside party to craft a compromise version?

Please let us know your thoughts on these differances. Vassyana 08:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

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