User talk:McTavidge

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Welcome!

Hello, McTavidge, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!  --Lukobe 08:11, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter, Issue 9, January 2007 2 Stutch 3 Insurance 4 NAIC 5 Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot 6 It is now the Beatles 7 The beat-less 'article' 8 Wikipedia, Consensus, The Beatles and Project Policy 8.1 Belated reaction 8.2 My Comments 8.3 My Observations 8.4 My Conclusion(s) 9 Record label branding 10 "Don't hold your breath" 11 Cites 12 WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter, Issue 11, March 2007 13 The the - yes folks, it's here again

[edit] WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter, Issue 9, January 2007

WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter Issue 009 – January 2007
Beatles News The ongoing divorce proceedings between Paul McCartney and the former Heather Mills continues to occupy the attention of the media - Heather Mills reportedly receiving unspecified death threats. The British Post Office have released a series of stamps depicting various Beatles album covers. Project News The Paul McCartney article is being primped and primed for submission as a Featured Article candidate. The good folk who have been working on the above article have turned their attention to the John Lennon page. Everyone is, of course, invited to contribute. 1 new article (by keithmall) has been listed in the Project Log since 1 December 2006, being The Beatles Book, a monthly magazine. The hottest Project page this month has been the Macca (Paul for those not in the know!) article, again. Other Project news... Please let the editors know if anything is happening, or just contribute it to the next newsletter. Member News New members to the project since the last issue include Beggarsbanquet, Keithmall, Sturgeonman, and McTavidge Sir Sean de Garde appears to have developed multiple personalities.	Issue of the Month The question of capitalising of the letter "t" in The of The Beatles has been raised again. It appears that UK style references (here and here) also maintains that the letter should be in lower case. If the Project is to be appear professional then it may have to change the format. Polite discussion is invited at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject The Beatles/Policy. If possible, please provide sources/references to support your position. From the Editors It has been a fairly quiet time with regard to the Project (or at least that is how it seems). If you are reading this and wondering why your efforts in respect of a Beatles article has not been mentioned, it may be that you haven't told any editor. This is your Newsletter, which means you can contribute to it, so please do! If you've just joined, add your name to the Participants section of Wikipedia:WikiProject The Beatles. You'll get a mention in the next issue of the Newsletter and get it delivered as desired. Also, please include your own promotions and awards in future issues. Don't be shy! Lastly, this is your newsletter and you can be involved in the creation of the next issue (Issue 010 – January/February 2007). Any and all contributions are welcome. Simply let yourself be known to any of the undersigned, or just start editing! Contributors to this Issue LessHeard vanU (lead :) Editor) Lar (Editor, Distributor)
Complete To Do List Make visible or invisible by clicking Show or Hide, respectively. Open tasks for WikiProject The Beatles. Edit or discuss these tasks. As the project is currently just starting, our more experienced editors are working on the project infrastructure, classifying articles, and listing/assessing red links. Your assistance is welcome. If you would prefer to just edit - and why wouldn't you? - we have a choice selection of red links to turn blue and articles to clean! Now let's get busy. To Expand: Apple Records See also: Adopt an article To Clean up: Apple Records discography (wikify). The Beatles' 1965 USA Tour. To Merge: To Create: Phil McDonald (engineer). Lennon/McCartney songs: I'll Keep You Satisfied (produced by George Martin), From A Window. George Martin produced Billy J. Kramer song: Magic Carpet (song). Songs covered by The Beatles: Hippy Hippy Shake. The Big Three. Bag o'Nails, where Paul met Linda. Macca single: My Brave Face. Articles on each Beatle tour (Category:The Beatles tours). Full list & instructions. Lists to complete: Wanted Pics/Graphics: Mal Evans, Flying (song), Astrid Kirchherr, Jimmy Nicol, Cynthia Powell, Alistair Taylor, Ivan Vaughan, Tittenhurst Park. We need a better open-licenced photo for the project, to replace the Abbey Road crossing. If you provide a photo, please remove the ReqPhoto tag from the article's talk page and remove the article from this list. Project Discussions: The Beatles history, Individual songs vs longer album articles, Beatle wives, Merge/split proposals Project: Add {{WPBeatles}} to the talk pages of all Beatles-related articles. Send a newsletter to members, canvas for new members, and coordinate tasks. Enter articles classed as stubs into this list (under To Expand) and also list articles needing cleaning and other work here. If you complete one of these tasks, please remove it from the list and add your achievement to the project log.

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[edit] Stutch

Hey there, You need to warn the fellow first--try one of the {{test1}}{{test2}}{{test3}}{{test4}} series. After that, post on Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism . Hope that helps--lemme know if it's unclear-- Lukobe 19:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Insurance

Please post questions on the talk page. Adding comments disrupts the flow of the text to those editing. Thank you. -- Avi 06:19, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Please do not insert parenthetical comments into wikipedia articles. If you have specific questions about the article, please use the talk page. Thank you. -- Avi 06:29, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NAIC

Rather than reverting edits, you should put comments on the talk page. Wikipedia content should be verifiable. I tried to verify everything on the original NAIC definition from the NAIC website itself at the time I wrote it. If you disagree, or if you have an example of someone mistakenly calling the NAIC a regulator, that's another matter. I kept some of your other edits because I respect your right to contribute to the page and only deleted the part that lacks any foundation at all -- if you strongly disagree, let's take it to the NAIC talk page.

Thanks for the comments. Being new to Wikipedia is a common thing ;-) The number of "rules" is really pretty small. I think you should edit anything you want, as long as you're respectful and fully prepared to have your edits edited. Oblivy 03:40, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot

SuggestBot predicts that you will enjoy editing some of these articles. Have fun!

Stubs Not a Second Time Ask Me Why Within You Without You The Beatles' Story Help! (song) Long, Long, Long Yellow Submarine (film) Eight Days a Week I'm Looking Through You This Boy Carry That Weight Rock and Roll Music Hunter Davies Magical Mystery Tour (song) Act Naturally Lady Madonna All Those Years Ago Tell Me Why (1964 song) Sexy Sadie (song)

Cleanup The Beatles bootlegs Beatlemania White Trash (band) Merge Mutual Short (finance) Dragon's Breath Add Sources In My Life The End (The Beatles song) Norman Smith Wikify Global settlement Piero Scaruffi Treasury & Securities Services Expand Allen Klein Squatting Monaural

SuggestBot picks articles in a number of ways based on other articles you've edited, including straight text similarity, following wikilinks, and matching your editing patterns against those of other Wikipedians. It tries to recommend only articles that other Wikipedians have marked as needing work. Your contributions make Wikipedia better -- thanks for helping.

If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please tell me on SuggestBot's talk page. Thanks from ForteTuba, SuggestBot's caretaker.

P.S. You received these suggestions because your name was listed on the SuggestBot request page. If this was in error, sorry about the confusion. -- SuggestBot 15:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It is now the Beatles

In case you are not watching the page, I have now formalised the policy to reflect the proper way of refering to the band. The announcement is here, and the wording is on the main page. Your help in applying this policy to the articles would be appreciated. LessHeard vanU 15:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I haven't the foggiest how Wiki bots are created, but I should think parameters such as Unless after a (period.) or (quotation")... would be quite common. I was hoping that there was amongst those people I notified a bot operator or someone who knew a bot operator. LessHeard vanU 21:27, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The beat-less 'article'

So, it's now the Beatles, is it? Every mention of The Band should be changed (in the middle of a sentence) to the Band. "At the gig, Bob Dylan and the Band.... which means his 'backing band', and not The Band. Explanation:

• "I saw the Band tonight."
• "Which band?"
• "The Band!"

• "I watched the beetles tonight."
• In your kitchen again?"
• No, The Beatles!

It's a question of emphasis... andreasegde 17:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia, Consensus, The Beatles and Project Policy

I was going to step away from this, since I was only going by the rules and I didn't want to get into a big dispute (especially with editors who I respect and have enjoyed working with), but recent events have brought me back.

The debate about naming the convention regarding the capitalisation or not of the letter "t" of the in t/The Beatles has been going on for a while. I have endured the snide remarks of a Twit, and have engaged in civil debate with some others who continued to question Project policy regarding the issue. I pointed out the need to establish a reasonable argument for their viewpoint over and above that of some professional knowledge so there could be a debate. When they did provide reasonable grounds for reopening the debate I used the offices of the Beatles Newsletter Issue 9:Issue of the Month to request comment, debate on the matter. There was no response. In the next Newsletter Issue 10:Issue of last Month I commented that there had been no response, and that the Project policy would be altered to use of the lowercase. Again, nobody other than the proponents responded. After a brief while I did as I said I would, and amended the Policy.

[edit] Belated reaction

The new Policy is not to the liking of some of the editors involved the the Beatles Project (as the previous one was not to others.) After the policy was implemented reasons and arguments for retaining the previous convention were given. Authorities were cited and some discussion was created. Very recently more than one editor has edited Beatles related articles specifically to reflect the previous policy.

[edit] My Comments

My preference is to capitalise the letter t of the in the Beatles.

Wikipedia has very few rules; two of the most important relate to consensus and verifiability.

Wikipedia:WikiProject The Beatles has a specific area for the implementation (following debate and consensus) of Policy. The associate talkpage records the debate and the arguments used in reaching Policy decisions. The Project also maintains the principle of abiding by the rules that have been agreed, and the fundemental Wikipedia ethos of consensus.

[edit] My Observations

No recent discussion occurred when the matter of the use of lowercase or uppercase was notified in two Newsletters, other than between myself and the proponents of lowercase at the Policy talkpage. Since Policy implementation discussion has only occurred on the talkpages of concerned editors, or on the talkpages of some of the articles, and not at the Policy talkpage.

More than one editor has unilaterally decided to ignore the new Policy, going so far as to amend articles to reflect the previous convention.

[edit] My Conclusion(s)

The Beatles Project is being disrupted by editors who I personally know to be conscientious and dedicated contributors of long and good standing. In that there is now occurring what might be considered vandalism (the knowing altering of articles in a manner that is against Wikipedian and Project rules and policy), likely as a result of their strongly held views, I believe that this matter needs urgent addressing. I am copying this to the Policy talkpage, and to all the editors involved in formulating the new policy and the recent opponents. I suggest that this debate is taken there, and that this matter is decided in a civil manner in accordance with the principles of Wikipedia.

I am deeply saddened that it has come to this. I am depressed that editors (people) whose integrity and civility (not to say sheer fun) I had been proud to be associated with have acted in (what I see as) bad faith and flagrant disregard for the rules and guidelines of both Wikipedia and The Beatles Project. LessHeard vanU 23:58, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Record label branding

Your question about simplification may be answered by Tor Books' explanation of imprints. It applies to the publishing industry, but is pretty much the same for record labels. —mjb 03:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Don't hold your breath"

It may be that us proponents of big T will not find an authority for us to use. However, as "lack of evidence is not evidence of lack" it is unlikely that that scenario would end the possibility of the debate being rekindled; what I'm saying is that the matter may just be left in abeyance. It may be that someone (possibly me) will one day make a comment that current policy is unlikely to be challenged in the near future, but that will depend on how long we are prepared to search should nothing turn up.

I am going to announce in the next Newsletter that little t is now policy, and request/require Project Members abide by it. I would comment that you haven't done anything really wrong in asking if us Big T'ters have found any grounds, as it was your prompting that got me to decide to announce the change of policy when I did. I may have waited longer for a response. It just seems that you might be a little over-anxious to conclude things; a perfectly reasonable wish but one which might not happen. The best thing is to keep an eye on the policy pages and subscribe to the Newsletter, if things don't appear to be developing then energies can be better spent on the articles.

If you do find people changing the t back to Big just revert them. I don't think you will find it will be any people you have recently debating with (we agree to disagree, but we will abide by policy) and if you need backup then please call on me or User:Lar (he is an Admin, which helps) as we are both very policy orientated.

Despite (or indeed because of) our debate I think you are the type of editor this project needs, knowledgable, civil, and enthusiastic. I hope you stick around. If us Big T'ters ever do find something to bring to the debate then I trust you will be there to put your side of the argument.

Cheers. LessHeard vanU 22:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cites

OED (2d Edition, 1989) (From the defintion of "Beatle" (used as an adjective (attributive), as in, "I dig that Beatle haircut.") Applied attrib. to the hair-style or other characteristics of ‘The Beatles’ or of their imitators. Also, Beatlemania [-MANIA], addiction to the Beatles and their characteristics; the frenzied behaviour of their admirers. Hence other nonce-formations (see quots.). 1963 The Beatles 3 Their unique hair-styles have forced hair-dressers to follow the Beatle cutfor girls as well as boys. 1963 Daily Tel. 1 Nov. 15/6 Beatle fans hold up premier's car. 1963 Times 27 Dec. 4/6 The social phenomenon of Beatlemania, which finds expression in handbags, balloons and other articles bearing the likeness of the loved ones, or in the hysterical screaming of young girls whenever the Beatle Quartet performs in public. 1964 Daily Tel. 10 Feb. 1/3 Outside, hundreds of squealing Beatlemaniacs carried such signs as ‘We love younever leave us’. Ibid. 20 Feb. 22/7 The first export consignment of Beatle wallpaper will be flown from Manchester to Canada to-day. 1964 Daily Mail 11 Feb. 6/8, I hope someone explains to the Americans that we wear our Beatle wigs and bowlers on separate occasions. 1968 Courier-Mail (Brisbane) 22 June 3/3 Of the Beatles he [sc. Maharishi Yogi] said: ‘..They weren't prepared to end their beatledom for meditation.’

[edit] WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter, Issue 11, March 2007

WikiProject The Beatles Newsletter Issue 011 – March 2007
Beatles News On February 5, 2007, the Beatles' Apple Corps and Apple, Inc. (Apple Computer) announced a settlement of their latest trademark dispute involving use of the Apple trademark on the iTunes Music Store. In May of 2006, the High Court ruled in favor of Apple, but Neil Aspinall, manager of Apple Corps, vowed to appeal. Evidently, in the intervening months, the two companies negotiated a settlement. The settlement is discussed in this AP story. For background on the case, see Apple Corps v. Apple Computer. For fans, this may mean that Beatle music will be available someday on iTunes. Despite rumors of a February 2007 release, the material is still unavailalble. The divorce case between Paul McCartney and his estranged wife Heather Mills McCartney has begun with a preliminary hearing in the London High Court on March 1, 2007. See the McCartneys Have Their First Court Date. Chronicle Books has reissued I, Me, Mine, the 1980 George Harrison autobiography. See details in the editors page Project News The articles Freddie Lennon, Julia Lennon, Mimi Smith, Neil Aspinall and Mal Evans have all been promoted to Good Article status. The identity of the individual largely responsible for this outcome remains a mystery, but anyone correctly identifying said person will be treated to dinner with Sir Sean de Garde (cost of meal, air tickets, hotel and trips to houses of ill-repute will be borne by the Mighty Crestville). There were no Project article adoptions for the month of February. One new article has been listed in the Project Log since 1 February; namely The New World Tour, relating to the 1993 World Tour by Paul McCartney, created by the Project's Macca/Wings tours resident expert Danthemankhan. The hottest Project pages this month have been.... Julia Lennon, Freddie Lennon, Neil Aspinall, and Mal Evans, which are now all GA, and Mimi Smith, which has been peer reviewed to see if it could be FA. Project Policy has now been altered to reflect that the use of lowercase for the letter "t" of the word "the" in the Beatles is now considered the correct rendition. Member News New members to the project since the last issue include (although the first is a long time contributor who apparently has only just found the Participants section); Tvoz Freshacconci Liamshaw John Cardinal Mezlo ErleGrey Captain Waters Hey jude, don't let me down Apepper has been awarded a Barnstar for his considerable contributions to The Beatles' influence on music recording. LessHeard vanU has also acquired two Barnstars, and a WikiFish(!), mostly due to undue influence.	Issue of the Month See below. There is genuine concern that the Newsletter is getting stale in terms of content and variety, and that the same individuals are featured each month. Furthermore, lack of "news" is hindering the timely distribution as the editors wait for something to report. All Project editors are encouraged to give their news, suggestions and thoughts to keep the 'Letter vital and interesting. If making direct contributions do not appeal, please give a mention on the Newsletter talkpage and it will be incorporated! From the Editors Help is needed for the job of putting future Newsletters together. The present incumbent is finding it difficult to reflect the breadth of the Project, focusing on much the same individuals and articles each month, and has decided to beg for contributions from other individuals. Interested persons need only start working on next months issue to qualify. It really is that simple! If you've just joined, add your name to the Participants section of Wikipedia:WikiProject The Beatles. You'll get a mention in the next issue of the Newsletter and get it delivered as desired. Also, please include your own promotions and awards in future issues. Don't be shy! Lastly, this is your newsletter and you can be involved in the creation of the next issue (Issue 012 – April 2007). Any and all contributions are welcome. Simply let yourself be known to any of the undersigned, or just start editing! Contributors to this Issue lEaD ediTor (Lead Editor) John Cardinal (Editor) LessHeard vanU (Editor) Lar (Editor, Distributor) Alexcalamaro (Editor)
Complete To Do List Make visible or invisible by clicking Show or Hide, respectively. Open tasks for WikiProject The Beatles. Edit or discuss these tasks. As the project is currently just starting, our more experienced editors are working on the project infrastructure, classifying articles, and listing/assessing red links. Your assistance is welcome. If you would prefer to just edit - and why wouldn't you? - we have a choice selection of red links to turn blue and articles to clean! Now let's get busy. To Expand: Apple Records See also: Adopt an article To Clean up: Apple Records discography (wikify). The Beatles' 1965 USA Tour. To Merge: To Create: Phil McDonald (engineer). Lennon/McCartney songs: I'll Keep You Satisfied (produced by George Martin), From A Window. George Martin produced Billy J. Kramer song: Magic Carpet (song). Songs covered by The Beatles: Hippy Hippy Shake. The Big Three. Bag o'Nails, where Paul met Linda. Macca single: My Brave Face. Articles on each Beatle tour (Category:The Beatles tours). Full list & instructions. Lists to complete: Wanted Pics/Graphics: Mal Evans, Flying (song), Astrid Kirchherr, Jimmy Nicol, Cynthia Powell, Alistair Taylor, Ivan Vaughan, Tittenhurst Park, Tony Barrow. We need a better open-licenced photo for the project, to replace the Abbey Road crossing. If you provide a photo, please remove the ReqPhoto tag from the article's talk page and remove the article from this list. Project Discussions: The Beatles history, Individual songs vs longer album articles, Beatle wives, Merge/split proposals Project: Add {{WPBeatles}} to the talk pages of all Beatles-related articles. Send a newsletter to members, canvas for new members, and coordinate tasks. Enter articles classed as stubs into this list (under To Expand) and also list articles needing cleaning and other work here. If you complete one of these tasks, please remove it from the list and add your achievement to the project log.

Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here.

delivered by ++Larbot - run by User:Lar - t/c 00:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The the - yes folks, it's here again

• Brian Epstein signed a contract with the Beatles. He signed it with their individual consent, and they signed it as individual members. Point? Plural, and not collective.
• Paul and John went to Paris, meaning that the Beatles who went to Paris were only two, and not the whole group.
• The Beatles, meaning the Beatles that toured America (not 1, 2, 3, of them, but 4 of them) were The Beatles, because it was singular, meaning a whole entity.
• This is a way of raising the debate to a new level, which includes both sides of the argument. andreasegde 20:38, 16 March 2007 (UTC)