Talk:Max Nordau
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It is not mentioned anywhere that Nordau was an anarchist. Here are three publications of his that prove that philosophical inclination:
Nordau, Max Simon. (Max S. Suedfeld.) Der ekonomisher ligen. [The Economic Lie] Trans. Rudolf Rocker (from 'Konventionelle Lügen der Kulturmenschheit'). London, 1904. 49pp. [BL:8205.d.31.]
Nordau, Max.(Max S. Suedfeld.) Der ligen fun der khasene. [The Lie Of Marriage] London: Frayhayt, 1900. 52pp. [IISH Y Bro 3082/14]
Nordau, Max. (Max S. Suedfeld.) Der ligen fun der religyon. [The Lie Of Religion] London: Frayhayt, 1901. 55pp. [IISH Y Bro 3092/1]
In response to the above, I find it highly unlikely that Nordau was an anarchist, since in Degeneration he explicity describes anarchists as being themselves degenerates. Also, I'm not completely convinced that it "certainly would be a mistake" to consider Nordau's writings as proto-fascist, as it says in the main article. Just because Nordau was a Jew does not mean that he cannot be held responsible for views which from todays standpoint, sound on occasion remarkably and disturbingly similar to those of various mid-century European fascist organizations. At the very least, he must be considered as part of the broader reactionary stream by which more explicitly proto-fascist writers were nourished. eeesh April 26, 2006
I get your point, he does sound remarkably like a fascist. However, you really have to look at this in the context of the time. I wrote this article, and my reluctance to call him a fascist has nothing to do with his Jewishness. It's more to do with the fact that he believed in Democracy and thought the "Blut und Boden" romantic nationalist movements were either dangerous or ridiculous. His cultural views were horribly reactionary, fair enough, and may have contributed to a general reactionary current in late 19th and early 20th Century Europe, but they weren't fascist.
- Rather, the problem is that today the world fascist carries too much historical baggage. From the contemporary perspective, looking past Auschwitz into the further past, we can't see that at one point it may have seemed quite reasonable to use national or ethnic solidarity as a substitute for class solidarity, to see monarchs and other tinselled and uniformed strongmen as more legitimate than proletarian dictators, and thus to favour a right-wing traditionalist or folkish-agrarian collectivism as opposed to a left-wing vanguardish, urban, industrial collectivism.
- Dozens of otherwise rational and respected people held similar opinions; T. S. Eliot, Hilaire Belloc, and G. K. Chesterton were notable exponents of such views in the English speaking world, although probably none of them were capable of mass murder. The only reason we don't remember them as proto-fascists is that their politics were fortunately forgotten as unmemorable achievements; though in Belloc's case it's not quite possible to wipe away the stain. But for the fact that fascist now is a reproachful epithet, I would not hesitate to name Nordau a proto-fascist either. — Smerdis of Tlön 18:48, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
When Nordau was born in 1849, neither the city of Budapest nor the Austro-Hungarian Empire existed as such.202.81.167.172 10:31, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
What does it mean for him to be a phillistine, from the Wikipedia definition I can't really get a handle of what the author of the article is trying to say about him. Jztinfinity 06:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Unencylopedic paragraph
It would certainly be a mistake to see the views expressed in Nordau's work as being proto-fascist, despite the obvious similarities between Nordau's view of modern art and that of the Nazis, who also used the expression Entartete Kunst or Degenerate Art. Although Nordau's work certainly reflect a reactionary strain of European thought, he condemns the rising Anti-Semitism of the late 19th Century as a product of degeneration.
The above is both POV & Argument from fallacy. Proto-fascism does not necessitate anti-semitism (If National Socialism is considered a type of Fascism, then a form of fully manifested (not proto) Fascism attested historically had examples of it, but one does not equal the other.) Nagelfar 01:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
