Talk:Matt Hughes (fighter)

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Contents 1 Matt and Mark Hughes 2 Gracie fight 3 Original research 4 Image:Matt hughes.jpg has been listed for deletion 5 When did matt hughes start wrestling? 6 Dana white comment 7 Matt Hughes MMA Record 8 Firm but hairy buttocks? 9 BJ Penn VS. Hughes 2 10 HUGHES ESCAPED THE ARMBAR/TRIANGLE THE END OF THE ROUND DIDN'T SAVE HIM 11 Incorrect Trivia 12 Style 13 Alleged Groin Strikes 14 Nickname 15 TUF2 write up 16 Matt is STILL a legend in this sport 17 Xyience 18 College 19 Fight record

[edit] Matt and Mark Hughes

I see that there is a reference to the Hughes Twins being Identical - I believe they are Fraternal twins. Can anyone cite reliable references to either?

I cannot find the interview where I believe Matt Hughes corrected the assumption that they are identical.

They are identical twins, not fraternal.Rosarionathan 15:36, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gracie fight

I put the hold Hughes used down as a kimura - I think this is right but I'm not a BJJ expert and am not 100% sure. If someone knows better please change it. --Mule Man

It was a straight armbar, ([1]), I'll change it. --- Trench 01:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Original research

To explain why I placed the {{OriginalResearch}} tag on this page, here are some parts I think are not appropriate for Wikipedia:

• While it is somewhat common for MMA fighters to slam their opponent, it is usually performed by quickly picking up the opponent then dropping them in one fluid motion.
• This practice gives him a natural advantage over smaller and weaker opponents. In the world of MMA it is widely known that Hughes is the strongest welterweight fighter. Hughes is also considered to be one of the strongest fighters in MMA pound for pound.
• One of Hughes's weaknesses is that he can be submitted by opponents who are well versed in the art of submission. Like many wrestlers, Hughes has a tendency to sometimes leave out a body part, which the opponent can isolate and apply pressure to, forcing him to tap or risk injury.
• Hughes is known for his extreme strength, wrestling ability and grappling skills.

These are some examples of what I think are original research. In general the whole tone of this article is that of a personal essay, and I suspect it may need to be rewritten to place the emphasis back on the facts. --Ryan Delaney ^talk 19:28, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I've rewritten the page to remove the PoV reference. Sue Anne 08:00, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't know about the other stuff. All together it does sound POV, however ... Hughes is also considered to be one of the strongest fighters in MMA pound for pound. The commentators do say this pretty much every time he fights. True or not, the commentators always say it and he is strong, generally stronger than his opponent. He looks like he power lifts. Also, something should be said about his slams as they are his trademark. Even in other fights, even in other venues, commentators make references to slamming Matt Hughes style.

If there's a direct quote from a commentator, it might be appropriate to put in. But, I do think it's POV to put in some hype that the commentators are using to boost their champion. Also, the article does mention the slams -- " ...carrying them to a different part of the ring and slamming them to the mat." Sue Anne 00:06, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

"He is perhaps the strongest champion maybe the strongest fighter pound for pound that the UFC has ever seen." UFC 56, Matt Vasgersian, commentator. This was the latest one. I don't know how to put that in NPOV. (CHF 07:38, 22 November 2005 (UTC))

I edited the slam sentence to reflect what I think it should say. I don't know where to find commentator transcripts (CHF 00:29, 17 November 2005 (UTC))

I don't agree with your changes. While Matt Hughes might be most well known for his slam of Carlos Newton, he doesn't always carry his opponents "across" the ring, nor does he always slam someone against the fence. I think the more generic description is better. Sue Anne 00:45, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

He did it to Trigg as well. Sure he doesn't _always_ do it. He just does it when he can. And he doesn't slam them against the fence. He slams them near the fence with their head pointed towards it so he can stuff them up. It is a similar strategy to what Couture uses, except Couture clenches them into the cage and then slams them. Perhaps you are confusing what I wrote with how he proped up Carlos on the fence. I have never seen him do that except in that one fight. If you can word it better, then please do.

I'm not sure why Sue Anne is so intent on changing this article, but I must chime in. Matt Hughes is WELL-KNOWN for his considerable strength, and he is WELL-KNOWN for his "across the ring" slam. It's a signature move of his. Watch his fights, get into MMA. These are two particular things he is well-known for. He's also known as an excellent wrestler and a fierce ground-and-pounder. Jgw 14:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The point of him carrying them to his corner, slamming them with his opponents head facing the fence is so that he is facing his coaches and can talk to them....DUH. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.188.116.204 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Image:Matt hughes.jpg has been listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded, Image:Matt hughes.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

[edit] When did matt hughes start wrestling?

When did matt hughes start wrestling? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.198.219.143 (talk • contribs) .

Highschool TeflonBoy 10:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dana white comment

I believe the dana white claim which has been tagged 'citation needed' came on air during UFN3, although dana has probably said something like that many times. not only is it unlikely we will be able to find a URL citing this, it is simply not clear to me that white's opinion of hughes is objective or germane to the article.

Burgher 08:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Matt Hughes MMA Record

according to this: http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=fighter.detail&pid=4 he's at 41 wins. Renegade78 01:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

According to his personal home page and Sherdog he is at 39 wins. UFC likes to inflate the records of their fighters from my experience as fighter's Sherdog records are almost always different than their UFC profile states (remeber when the UFC announced Royce Gracie as undefeated? Yeah right...). I've made a note next to the win stating this, I think this is what we should use. VegaDark 01:33, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Firm but hairy buttocks?

Can this be verified?

Oh it could, but I'll be damned if I'm volunteering to find out :), regardless the vandalism has already been reverted. --- Trench 01:45, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BJ Penn VS. Hughes 2

If something is erroneously reported in the recent fights section then it must be corrected, or any section for that matter. But I dont believe any articles written, which report the truth, in a more interesting matter should be replaced by something more simplified which states the same thing. In short, why would anyone delete and replace my article if it said everything that someone obviously copied and pasted. It took time to write and if it had any errors only those should have been corrected, but it didnt, instead someone chose to replace it with their own.

I removed things because there was a TON of poorly worded, overly wordy, repeating... it's completely unnecessary to have 2 paragraphs practicely side-by-side stating the exact same thing, plus, as i said, there was so much stuff poorly worded, it looked sloopy... if anything of yours was removed that you dont think should have been, sorry, but also realize simple doesn't mean poor, and honestly i didn't see much interestingly written --- Thesaddestday

Poorly worded? Forget the choice of diction because the goal of wikipedia is not to confuse it's readers with pseudo-intellectual jargin. Recognize your audience. I was referring to context, if you said that Matt Hughes won against BJ Penn without referring to the fact that Hughes was dominated the first two rounds, then you would not be giving enough information. He did not "win" the first two rounds. If you know UFC or MMA then you would understand why it is so important to say that BJ Penn held off Hughes' attempt to take him down and that Penn was the better striker. It helps the audience understand that Matt Hughes is a highly criticized fighter for a reason. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant because Hughes IS criticized and that could help readers understand why. The fact that he attempted, but failed, to take BJ Penn down is important in understanding why other FIGHTERS (not just fans) say that Hughes has only one tactic, to take his opponent down and overpower him. Not giving this information is like not mentioning the FAMOUS Hughes SLAM or the CROCOP knockout of SILVA. I will not mess with your editing job but I think that is robbing the readers of something they should know, because a lot of people who first begin to get into MMA come and look up famous fighters I know I used to look up Gracie and Shamrock to see what they were all about. At the very least copy and past something from Sherdog.com they gave a three paragraph play by play of the fight (one paragraph each round).- MMA Fighter and Fan

That is not what I meant by poorly worded... I think what happened in the fight is relevant, someone else removed that... personally I made major changes because it looked like someone who failed English class wrote it... sorry I'm not trying to be mean, but it was written very poorly... I agree, information should be plenty to truly represent the topic of the article, but it has to be written somewhat intelligently and not accepted as a first draft... proof-reading would have gone a long way, but in my opinion cutting it down to the facts in a simple form was best... feel free to include anything over the first 2 rounds, I agree it is relevenat info, just don't overdo it with poorly placed or unnecessary words --Thesaddestday 03:13, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about anybody else, but I added the recently revealed information that Penn separated his ribs during round 2, which is highly relevant to understanding the dynamic of the match, and how he was completely different in round 3 after having won the first two rounds (as acknowledged by Hughes). But, apparently whoever has the most patience gets to write whatever he wants on wikipedia.

I agree that Penn's injury is relevant --Thesaddestday 02:43, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

No need to be rude--Donnie from the mean streets of Boston, KY 17:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HUGHES ESCAPED THE ARMBAR/TRIANGLE THE END OF THE ROUND DIDN'T SAVE HIM

So you just edit out what people say if you don't like it?? Works both ways...--Donnie from the mean streets of Boston, KY 16:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect Trivia

The only opponent he hasn't defeated is Dennis Hallman, who defeated him twice (most recently in 2000) by submission in the first round. """

This is incorrect. Look at his record, which is posted RIGHT BELOW SAID FACT. He has lost to Pele, Jose Landi-Jons as well....--Donnie from the mean streets of Boston, KY 03:06, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

good catch, i overlooked this post Thesaddestday 05:54, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not gonna add because my stuff usually gets deleted for whatever reason, but don't you think it would be cool to add in the trivia section the incident where Matt jumped on Tito Ortiz's back in order to protect him from Lee Murray after Murray knocked Tito down and soccer kicked him outside a nightclub in England? And yes, that was the biggest run-on sentence in the history of mankind...

No hyperbowl --Donnie from the mean streets of Boston, KY 15:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

If you can provide a reliable source that sounds like some interesting info to have. VegaDark 18:52, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Well I cannot find the interview with Pat Miletich where he tells the story, but if you look at Lee Murrays article on here it is in his article...--Donnie from the mean streets of Boston, KY 16:48, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Style

For his style, why does it say Submission Wrestling? He wrestled. He did brazilian jiu jitsu... Two different things. Mixed Martial Arts is a combo of styles, not JUST a title for a sports event. If he was strictly a submission wrestler, why does he strike? Thats the problem because you people on wikipedia insist one style is put here. This isnt UFC 1. Every fighter now does MMA. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.3.148.210 (talk • contribs) .

If we just put mixed martial arts as the style for every fighter, it wouldn't be very useful, now would it? Submission wrestling is of course Hughes' primary discipline. He trains in other things, just as all fighters do. SubSeven 04:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

UM NO. Hughes' primary discipline WOULD BE WRESTLING. Thanks for playing though...--Donnie from the mean streets of Boston, KY 16:46, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

and there is absolutely no reason to be rude about it Thesaddestday 04:03, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

What did I say that was rude? Maybe a bit condescending, but if you don't let the child know its done something wrong it will continue to do it...--Donnie from the mean streets of Boston, KY 17:51, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Except that wrestling doesnt involve traingles or any of that, in fact, wrestling in college in highschool is about pinning your opponent, the ONLY thing Hughes took from wrestling was takedowns, he primarily studies SUBMISSION WRESTLING, and lets not say anything about his pathetic striking, hes got an iron chin, but his striking is not any better than some chump in a barIvanSanchez716 05:29, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Submissions + Wrestling does not equal Submission Wrestling. He never trained "submission wrestling" He did greco roman wrestling, brazilian jiu jitsu, and muay thai. Look at the page for submission wrestling, it doesnt even call it a style, it just gives examples of grappling with submissions. HorrorFiend138

In that case, add those as his fighting styles. Miletich Fighting Systems is not his fighting style, it is his camp. That's like adding Team Quest as Randy Couture's fighting style. VegaDark 06:12, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

reverted back from militech fighting systems to submission wrestling due to the same reasons vegadark listed Thesaddestday 08:03, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Matt Hughes is not a "submission wrestler" There is no "submission wrestling" it's made up. He's a mixed martial artist.

a lot of people refer to catch-wrestling as submission wrestling... but on the subject of hughes, i think muay thai should be removed, he never stands up and fights he takes people down and gnp's and subs, and when he does stand up it looks more like sloppy boxing then muay thai Thesaddestday 22:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

a lot of people under estimate his striking, but ok yeah, bjj and wrestling should stay as his style. agreed anyone?

bjj/wrestling are fine with me they are the most accurate portrayal of his style Thesaddestday 04:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alleged Groin Strikes

The article says that St. Pierre accidentally landed 2 groin strikes in their latest fight, I think that there is still some controversy about whether those actually connected or not, maybe the wording should be changed a bit? N1000 19:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nickname

Hughes has been given the nickname of (I kid you not) "Country Breakfast" by MMA fans and I can't think of a good way to put it in. Can someone put it in the page in the proper manner?

It doesn't belong anywhere in the article unless you have a reliable source for that being his nickname. VegaDark 18:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

He is not refered to by that name in the ring. I keep up with UFC and saw him loose the title to Georges St. Pierre on ppv. In other words I have seen many of his matches and never heard that. You do really have to have a reliable souce for that one.—Shella * 23:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. It's a nickname that a few MMA forum posters gave him that makes fun of the ludicrous breakfast he has in front of him during his Xyience commercial, saying "Don't have time for a country breakfast?". While funny, it has no place in his Wikipedia article unless a reliable source reports that people have given him this nickname. VegaDark 00:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

It's a minor footnote and a name that "keyboard warriors" have given to Matt as a form of ridicule. I could see it getting maybe a couple sentences in the novel of his life, but it is really irrelevant here. -- Rosarionathan 20:04, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TUF2 write up

I deleted the reference to Matt's "aggressive and confrontational personality" being on display during season 2 of The Ultimate Fighter. It is opinion not fact and does not represent a neutral point of view. A more correct statement would be, "Hughes was portrayed as the 'bad coach' for the season; but he has personally stated that it was a result of editing rather than an accurate portrayal of the facts." My source is from a transcript of an interview Matt did on SpikeTV.com, we no longer link to this page on Matt's website, but it is still an accurate transcript of what he said. http://www.matt-hughes.com/tuf2.html --Rosarionathan 19:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Matt is STILL a legend in this sport

His loss to St.Pierre does nothing to diminish his past accomplishments. He is still the most dominant champion in UFC history, with more title defenses than anyone else. I believe that he is ranked #2 for UFC victories (right behind Chuck Liddell). Matt has earned his place in the UFC Hall of Fame and I believe this article should be more respectful of what he has accomplished in this sport and not focus so much on the negative. The opinions of a few people on the internet does not erase the fact that he holds 9 championship victories.

My name is Nathan Rosario, I run Matt Hughes' official website, and I am making this article one of my pet projects. I want it to focus on the facts of Matt's career, not the slanderous comments of a few malcontents scattered across the internet. -- Rosarionathan 20:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

A few points:

1. Welcome to Wikipedia.

2. Please be more respectful of the others editing articles, and assume good faith unless the contrary is quite clear. Just because you discovered some material in the article that you consider to be negative does not mean that everyone here is a "keyboard warrior" who somehow has it in for Matt.

3. Everyone is welcome to contribute, but the tone of your statements thus far on the talk page tells me that you need to make sure your edits are neutral. For the same reason that "keyboard warriors" who only want to disparage Matt have their edits reverted, yours will be as well if they are simply glowingly positive and praising. Matt's website would be a more appropriate place for that.

Otherwise, I look forward to your contributions. I'm sure someone close to Matt can help out tremendously with the factual accuracy of this MMA-related article. Tuckdogg 21:04, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I apologize if I came off in an accusing manner. I actually believe that those responsible for this article have done a pretty good job of staying neutral for the most part. There were a few things that caught my eye and prompted me to add my own edits. One example was the reference that Matt had lost the first two rounds of the recent Penn fight. We will never know how the judge's scorecards would have scored those rounds. To claim that he lost them is pure speculation. Matt did a good job of staying aggressive in the first round and kept BJ on the defensive, so there is a good chance that round one would have gone to Matt. However, that is also pure conjecture. To accurately depict the results of those first two rounds, we could easily just say that, "Hughes himself believed that he lost the first two rounds...." Or something along those lines.

The other big thing was the reference to Matt's personality on TUF2 implying that the TV show was an accurate representation of who Matt really is, when he has said over and over again in interviews that it is not accurate. In fact, some of the edits on that show bordered on slander.

I'm not interested in blind praise, but I do believe that we should be respectful of what he has accomplished in this sport and not try to downplay his abilities just because he lost one fight. He's still a legend in this sport, nothing that happens from here on out will change that. We don't judge Muhammed Ali's career by his 1980 comeback fight and we shouldn't. So I believe that this article should extend Matt the same courtesy. -- Rosarionathan 02:27, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Xyience

"Xyience" references: There are two references to "Xyience" in this article that may be jokes, or vandalism, or may simply require clarification. The first is in reference to the second fight with BJ Penn: "In September 2006, Hughes defended his title against B.J. Penn, stopping him in the third round. This win was somewhat cast into doubt however, after Hughes tested positive for Xyience during a post-fight drug test." The second reference concerns Hughes' "outburst" about the virtues of American vs. Canadian bacon: "Hughes began shouting "No American Bacon, No Matt Hughes!" over and over again. It is spculated that he made have been having an episode of "Xyience Rage", not uncommen in the sport of MMA."

The Wikipedia stub on Xyience just says it's an epedra (sp?)-free energy drink. The Xyience website contains products which look (in my admittedly unprofessional opinion) like common non-steroid body-building and sports performance supplements.

Am I wrong to suspect that these references are tongue-in-cheek, or maybe even just advertising? While I'm sure we all agree with Mr. Hughes that Canadian bacon is not real bacon, and that delicious, crispy, God-fearing American bacon is the only TRUE bacon, and that Mullet haircuts are cool... am I being kidded here? 60.238.72.208 05:42, 6 January 2007 (UTC)Douglas R. Williams

That was a vandalised version of the page that I reverted a day ago. VegaDark 09:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] College

Are we sure he went to Lincoln Land Community College instead of Lincoln College in Lincoln, Illinois? I noticed that it was changed, but does anyone have definitive evidence one way or another? Both colleges exist, but I wasn't under the impression that Matt went to Lincoln Land, although it is closer to Hillsboro. Capmaster 06:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I also noticed it was changed. We should try and find a citation for it one way or another. VegaDark 06:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fight record

We have 3 different sources that each say he has a different fight record. On one part of his personal web page says his record is 42-5 at [2], and on the section of his webpage that actually lists his fights ([3]) it only accounts for a record of 40-5. Sherdog agrees with a 40-5 record, and his UFC profile says his record is 41-5. I think we should go with the Sherdog record because of the following reasons: 1) It is a conflict of interest to take his record from his own webpage or even the UFC profile. While I'm not going to say these are unreliable sources, I don't think we should use them when more neutral sources are available, such as Sherdog. UFC records are occasionally trumped up to make the fighter look better than they are (they announced Royce Gracie as being undefeated when he went against Matt Hughes, which was patently untrue). Sherdog is neutral and lists his entire fight history so there is no room to ask how they came up with that record, like the UFC profile. 2) His website only accounts for 40 of the wins on the fight record. How can he claim 42 wins when the very record he provides doesn't include these extra two wins? Sherdog is our best bet here. I won't revert again, but I will bring it up at the MMA wikiproject to determine consensus there if it is changed again, and I suspect consensus will agree we should use Sherdog unless someone can find the results of these other two supposed fights from a reliable source. VegaDark 21:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I absolutely agree. If those two fights cannot be documented, they should not be included in the count. Debolaz 11:12, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I run Matt's webpage and he's told me that there are two of his fights that are not listed on his Sherdog profile. But it's been several months and he still hasn't given me the "wheres" and "whens" of those two fights. I'll just have to remind him about again at some point. Rosarionathan 14:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

In that case I suggest that when he gives you the details, you add them to his webpage and also submit them to Sherdog so his fight finder matches his web page, and we will have no problems about adding them. VegaDark 21:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)