User talk:Martintg

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Welcome!

Hello, Martintg, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!  User:Advocatus diaboli

Contents

[edit] Hi

Hi, could you please set an e-mail (Special:Preferences), so that you could be contacted. Thanks.

As for Occupation of Latvia: considering the fact that the third opinions [1], Request(s) for comment [2] have not calmed down the Soviet POV promoters, I think Arbitration must be started. But I can join only on next week. And I do think that adding a neutrality dispute tag is considered vandalism, in case no sources are given on the talk page Constanz - Talk 11:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Occupation of Latvia

As you see, this is a hopeless case - I mean to argue with such users. The whole talk page is full of proof why Latvia was occupied, and proof that the side which says L. wasn't occupied ... has no sources. I'll try Arbitration. Constanz - Talk 07:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arbitration regarding Occupation of Latvia 1940-1945

I hereby notify you, that I started the arbitration case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Occupation_of_Latvia_1940-1945. Constanz - Talk 10:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it would make more sense arguing on arbitration page, or, when there's much to say, on corresponding talk page. Latvia article talk seems to be useless. Best regards, Constanz - Talk 09:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Advise

As I wrote, I would welcome the acceptance of the case by the ArbCom although I suspect if the ArbCom will restrict the case to the user conduct the only party that may be punished will be Constanz himself for the fierce revert warring and incivility. But as for me personally, I have a very thick skin and much higher tolerance than many, so this is not my concern.

I came here merely to give you an advise in connection to your comparison of myself with the hypothetical Holocaust deniers in the Holocaust article. The Holocaust article achieved the current stage through the participation of the multitude of editors. If the denier is faced with the multitude of users convinced in the lunatism of the denier's stance, his position will be indefensible and he will have to either desist or be blocked for revert warring.

The problem with this article can be solved by attracting the outside observers. Such observer brought in by the article's RfC also suggested the same thing I was suggesting all along, to rename the article into the History... " title as the first step.[3] You flatly refused the proposal from an unbiased observer though. You should attract more people to gauge the consensus, preferably from different regions of the world. You may want to wait for more visitors generated for RfC or you may want to contact editors who have interest in historic articles directly.

That you instead rant and compare your opponents to the Holocaust deniers is counterproductive and will not help you achieve your goal. Happy edits, --Irpen 20:59, January 27,

I am somewhat surprised by the slightly intimidatory tone of your "advise". Your threats against Constanz are meaningless to me, I do not know him nor have I corresponded with him.
I wasn't comparing yourself personally to Holocaust deniers, but the implications if your well crafted technique to exploit WP:NPOV were to be utilised by Holocaust deniers. It is incumbant upon the individual placing a POV tag to provide some citations to reliable sources of the implied alternative POV when challenged. Chronically failing to provide cites to published sources to support that position when challanged, particularly over a considerable period of time, must be construed as vandalism. Let's face it, you have admitted you preference to deleting the article all together, and you admit the difficulty in that approach, so it only adds to the perception that you have resorted to an alternative means to eviscerate the article.
By the way, I reside in Australian and was a casual observer with no particular emotional stake in the article. I came off the fence recently when it became apparent that two or three people were abusing the spirit of WP:NPOV to push their revisionist agenda Martintg 11:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RfArb

Hi, thanks again for your contributions. However, I recommend caution, while talking with arbitrators (about voting). The line between just a notice and canvassing may sometimes be thin - and I'm sure our opponents would take advantage of absolutely every chance they'd find! Esp. as the tide has turned, so to say. Regards, Constanz - Talk 09:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for making me aware of that link. There is a lot to learn in regard to the Wikipedian way. My intent was to notifiy of changes, my apologies if anyone was offended. Martintg 11:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Occupation of Latvia

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Occupation of Latvia. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Occupation of Latvia/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Occupation of Latvia/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Thatcher131 01:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


So it's open now. I hope you can help bringing this seemingly insolvable 'dispute' to an end. I have to warn though that I myself will probably not be able to participate from Sunday (afternoon) to Wednesday afternoon. Hopefully you can settle the problem, anyway.Constanz - Talk 09:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


I hereby award you the Exceptional Newcomer award for your tireless contributions explaining the Baltic history and for your bold efforts to combat tendentious editing. Great job! --Constanz - Talk 12:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I hereby award you the Exceptional Newcomer award for your tireless contributions explaining the Baltic history and for your bold efforts to combat tendentious editing. Great job! --Constanz - Talk 12:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Occupation of Latvia

This arbitration case has closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The parties identified in the decision as having acted poorly in the dispute regarding Occupation of Latvia 1940-1945 are admonished to avoid such behavior in the future. That article is placed on probation, and any editor may be banned from it, or from other reasonably related pages, by an uninvolved administrator for disruptive edits, including, but not limited to, edit warring, inciviilty, and original research. The Arbitration Committee reserves the right to appoint one or more mentors at any time, and the right to review the situation in one year, if appropriate. The parties are strongly encouraged to enter into a mediation arrangement regarding any article-content issues that may still be outstanding. If the article is not substantially improved by continued editing, the Arbitration Committee may impose editing restrictions on users whose editing is counterproductive or disruptive. This notice is given by a Clerk on behalf of the Arbitration Committee. Newyorkbrad 23:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

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