User talk:Martinp23/NPWatcher

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[edit] Feature suggestion

Here is a feature suggestion. I've also used vandalproof, and I don't like many of the templates that are offered. For example, level 4 test templates say, this is your last warning. If you vandalize again you will be blocked. Unfortunately, that is basically a lie if you are leaving the template on a shared IP, because these are almost never blocked. What would be nice is a way for the user of the tool to write a customized message for a button. The user clicks the button, and the customized message is added to the talk page. Maybe something like that exists already. --BostonMA ^talk 20:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll do it for a future release M a rtinp23 20:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Done in 0.8.5.9 Mart inp23 21:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Watchlist

Hi there. So far, the tool seems like it's coming along nicely. One thing that Vandalproof does that I would like to see in NPWatcher, though, is a feature that automatically logs pages actioned by the tool to the user's watchlist. That way if a stubborn editor begins removing DB tags, etc., it's easier to track. Thanks, and keep up the excellent work! --NMChico24 08:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to keep trying with this... grrr. Mart inp23 12:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPWatcher Error

I keep getting a persistent error when clicking "(Delete (nonsense) and warn)". The JIT debugger pops up, and I tried to debug the code myself, but the string that is causing the error is recurring. The JIT debugger text is hiden below this line (press edit to see it):
Thanks!

Tyson Moore es 13:48, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmm - OK. Does this happen every time you try to tag a page? It's erroring when it's warning the user according to that code :/. Do you know what pages it errored on? Thanks, M a rtinp23 13:52, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm still not certain why it's happening, but I've done a release to try to hack a fix into it - I couldn't reproduce the error. Hopefully it'll work better! M a rtinp23 14:16, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

My best guess for the cause of the error is that when it came to warn the user, the nonsense page had been deleted, so it couldn't fetch the creator's username. The hack which I put in earlier should fix the problem. M a rtinp23 14:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Does the error seem to have been resolved? I'm certain that it's to do with it losing the edit token for the user, so trying again should work. Mart inp23 23:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Nope, not resolved, I'm getting it. If you click continue, none of the useful buttons are activated (except the "Mark with {{copypaste}}" button, maybe that's a clue?). --Daniel Olsen 05:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm - well that's only a clue that I've missed two lines of code about that button :) (which I'll sort - it's just the greyying in/out code). Can you tell me the exact details of the circumstances around the event - the page, the button and what worked/didn't (deletion worked or not?). I'm surprised that this is still happening, but I can try to replicate the error by undeleting and running it in debug mode. Another question - does this happen every time? It could be an internet connection/wikipedia error (like the zero-sized-replies we get so often when editing), but I can then get some system to allow it to retry if it fails. Just need the extra info :) (thanks for reporting) Mart inp23 18:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll try and reproduce the error. Another thing, when CD Singles & Maxi-Singles was created, the page title in the list read "CD Singles & Maxi-Singles", and when clicked brought me to CD Singles. Just something else to check. Mostly this tool is just plain kickin ass. --Daniel Olsen 01:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

"Something sinister has happened. the page was deleted but the user could not be warned. Tell martin." Page was Gary Verma. --Daniel Olsen 02:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Happened again... same page... --Daniel Olsen 02:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Done in 0.8.5.9 (ampersand issue, that is). The "sinister" one is caused by connection problems I'm afraid - I'll put a nicer message there in a later release :) Mart inp23 21:10, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nice!

The new version of NPWatcher made for a great Christmas present, heh. Well done! In a future version, perhaps the program can check whether or not a db tag has already been placed, to prevent double tagging. Holiday cheers, Gzkn 02:04, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Yep - shouldn't be too much of a difficulty as I've already got the tag removal code there for admins, and it checks before placing user warnings to prevent duplication. M a rtinp23 12:42, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, it coud be a while before I put this one in, as I'm not convinced whether there's a real need - multiple tags, though annoying, can serve a purpose (eg: a nonsense page (tagged) could also be sen as an attack page, and having a second insight there, and two tags, can only help, placing the page into an "Attack pages" category where it will get quicker attention. The problem you note is something I plan to create an interface for, but I apologise if it isn't done soon :) M a rtinp23 14:26, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The problem, though, is that NPWatcher doesn't seem to catch edit conflicts; so if Gzkn or someone else puts {{db-nonsense}} on a page while I'm looking at it, and then I click the "nonsense" button, NPWatcher will merrily put a duplicate tag on the page. --Russ (talk) 22:31, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes - I'll sort that one out soon - the issue is that an edit conflict isn't actually occuring (so it's a non issue :)), but I need to get the program to allow edit conflicts to occur. And I've just thought of an easy solution :). Coming soon! thanks Mart inp23 23:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Done in 0.8.5.0 Mart inp23 00:26, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feature Suggestion

Hi, I have been using NPWatcher for some time, and I very much appreciate your efforts. I have a feature suggestion that the check boxes for first article and notability warning be changed to radio buttons, so one must always leave a message on the user's page. Unfortunately, I have left a bad impression of myself by failing to leave such messages. It is of course my fault, however, I would expect that other users new to NPWatcher might make a similar mistake. Sincerely, --BostonMA ^talk 16:03, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not willing to make it compulsary for a user to leave a message, as for some of the buttons (test, vandalism, nonsense), there's a message attached which cannot be removed and it would look bad to have a vandalism warning swiftly followed by {{firstarticle}}, nn warn or a custom warning (coming soon - promise!). So, for now, I wont be doing it, though I may make it a user setting in the future if enough interest is expressed by others. Thanks, and good look in your RfA. Mart inp23 00:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Done (what I mentioned above) in 0.8.5.9 Mart inp23 21:10, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problem with deletions

If an admin happens to be doing NP patrol, and he deletes the article before you tag it, then you automatically create a new page with just the speedy tag. -Amarkov ^blah_edits 22:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah, yes. I recall this happening to me a while back too. However, more recently, when I tried to tag something with db (I wasn't using NPWatcher at the time) there was some built-in mediawiki software check that asked if I was sure that I wanted to recreate a page that was just deleted. Not sure if NPWatcher recognizes it though. Gzkn 00:46, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

See above - it's the same solution for both problems. Mart inp23 23:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Done in 0.8.5.0 Mart inp23 00:26, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Download/Install Problems

I just downlaoded this NPWatcher, and when I did a compressed folder came up. I extracted the folder and clicked on the program, but it only came up with

"C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.5072\mscorwks.dll could not be loaded"

I've tried downloadng 3 times now and the same effect, any suggestions? Danielfolsom 03:56, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you have the latest .NET 2.0 Framework installed? You can get it here. Gzkn 05:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Since I see the v2.0.5072 in the data you gave, I can conclude that you have 2.0. Try repairing or reinstalling it using the above package. If that doesn't work, try installing Microsoft .NET 3.0 Framework. FirefoxMan 12:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Probably best to try both - definately re-install .NET 2.0, as there's something sinister going on there (I'm presuming you've got it, or you would have got some stop error when loading it (like 0x654096384 (made up) or something)). Also, if you can, try .net3.0, though it isn't needed to run the program (and by the way that .NET works, I don't know whether it would offer any benefits). Of course, the final consideration is your operating system. I spent hours last night getting the program built in .NET1.1 (which was interesting, as the webbrowser control couldn't be found...), so in theory, though dotGNU and mono, it may be compatible with Mac and Linux. I just need to clean up the code now. Mart inp23 12:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Done Ahh - looks like you got it to work anyway (by the mssage on my talk page) :) Mart inp23 12:58, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Appending of "0" to log entry pages

I used the program to create an AfD today, and instead of adding it to the proper log page, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2007 January 4, it created a new log article, the title of which had a "0" before the "4" (i.e., using a two digit date for single digits). I'm a little hesitant to try and reproduce it (since it'd create the second invalid log page again), and I'm unsure if this is a known issue, but this looks an easily resolvable minor glitch. Thanks! --Kinu ^t/_c 07:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Done - in 0.8.5.4. Thanks for discovering this Mart inp23 13:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Getting usernames wrong

I think that tagging items for Speedy deletion + notifying the user has been creating an issue. User talk:Gemral created an article but NPwatcher notified User talk:Gemra. Unfortunately the related article Ruchia has been deleted so I can't check if I'm correct on this one. Lovely program nonetheless ! Peripitus (Talk) 00:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Checked and it's definately happening - NPwatcher dropped the last e off User talk:Las1youlsee to create User talk:Las1youlse - Peripitus (Talk) 00:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

That's concerning - I can only guess that the API on the servers here has chenged slightly, without debugging. I'll see what I can do to fix it now. Mart inp23 00:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Done Hmm - seemed strange, but fixed in 0.8.5.5. Mart inp23 18:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Martin - very quick work ! Peripitus (Talk) 20:35, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Heh - no problem (I though I was rather slow, by my usual standards!). Thanks for reporting it! Mart inp23 18:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yet another error

Prod produces an error after filling out the box. FirefoxMan 16:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

This is quite a common error which I've noticed in my bots; it tends to change in the frequency with which it happens depending on server load, so I suspect that the issue with the wiki being mostly down last night (UTC) didn't help. Gateway error (502) is a problem with the connection between you and Wikipedia, and for now there is nothing I can do for it (hopefully some fix will come up). I know it's annoying Template:Emot. Sorry! Mart inp23 18:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

when the "page has changed since you loaded it message" is displayed, the message reaccurs until you change to a new item. FirefoxMan 22:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Will fix (tomorrow, hopefully) Mart inp23 22:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Done in 0.8.5.7 Mart inp23 10:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Can you make it also so that the message does not appear if it was I (meaning the user) who made the edit? FirefoxMan 01:31, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Probably not, I'm afraid. I've kept the edit conflict spotting system simple, to avoid making too many page loads and so taking too long. Mart inp23 21:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translation to English warning

I suggest that a "Mark with {{ Notenglish | language }}" button can be useful ;-) by Snowolf (talk) on 09:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Will do soon - thanks Mart inp23 21:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Done Mart inp23 16:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Populate list autorefresh

I think it can be also useful the refresh of the list of new pages on the left on a custom time interval set by the user by Snowolf (talk) on 09:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm perhaps - I'll see about it in future, but no promises on this one! Mart inp23 21:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mark with Uncategorized

Another idea: the {{uncategorized}} tag can be very useful on new pages. by Snowolf (talk) on 09:36, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Coming up! Mart inp23 21:22, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Done Mart inp23 16:29, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Warn on CSD not notable

I think that it can be useful if NPW add a comment to the creator of the page's talk page to inform it that it has been tagged as not notable, in the default form {{subst:nn-warn|PAGENAME}} ~~~~

That one's there :) - click the notability warn checkbox (next to the firstarticle one). Mart inp23 10:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I've seen it now. Thanks and happy editing on Wikipedia ;-) by Snowolf (talk) on 10:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

What about spam, empty and so on? by Snowolf (talk) on 13:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Some buttons will warn by default, and there's now a custom warning box there, which *should* work. Mart inp23 21:19, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] & and edit conflict

Great tool, coming along nicely. Two things I've noticed:

An "&" in the article title, shows as its HTML "& amp ;" in the article list but you can't view the article content in NPW as it ignores the ampersand further characters. E.g "Bill & Ben", is presented as the article "Bill". I recall other non-alphas seem to cause the same probs
I get a edit conflict when tagging a copyvio with the URL, nowhere else though. Says "Article have [sic] changed ...", and so on, but it is still tagged OK.

Thanks for listening --Steve _(Slf67) ^talk 03:51, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, "" are not valid. FirefoxMan 19:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Done in 0.8.5.9. Ampersand issue is resolved, and I'll fix the " " one at a later date. Mart inp23 21:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPW Userbox & Category

I've created a NPW Userbox here and also a NPW user category here. Maybe they can be added to NPW's main page.

By the way, if somebody want add it to his userbox to his page, simply use this code: {{User:Snowolf/Userboxes/NPW}} Bye and Happy Editing by Snowolf^(TALK) on 15:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks :D Mart inp23 21:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This just in...

"Somthing sinister has happened. This page has beeen marked for deletion, but the program was unable to leave a user warning." FirefoxMan 19:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Generally caused by a bad connection to WP, so either problems with your internet, or one of those many Wikipedia errors. Mart inp23 21:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested Feature

Just started using NPWatcher and it's great! Much better than doing it by hand!

A couple things would help me:

1. I'd like to be able to restrict results by size. I'm mostly looking for copyvios, and when large pages appear out of nowhere, they are often copy-and-pastes from other websites. Others are reposts of deleted articles that should not be reposted. If I could eliminate any results under 1K or 2K, that would be great. Also, searching for size "0" would yield blank(ed) pages.

2. I'd love to be able to store my username and password. My pw is unwieldy to type.

Thanks for a great utility!

--Butseriouslyfolks 06:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

In response to the last one, it would be a security issue to store your WP pwd in clear text on the machine. 11:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes - I may be able to do the password saving thing as a user choice - I'll see about the protocol for this. As far as I'm concerned, if you use a program to store your password on hard-drive in plain text, then it would be your own fault if it got stolen :-). For point 1 - I'll have to check :) Mart inp23 12:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clone

Is there a "clone" of this program somewhere? - Patricknoddy^{TALK (reply here)}^|^HISTORY 21:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

No, and there won't be, as for obvious reasons I haven't released the source code, and you have highlighted to me on IRC the problems with my earlier plan to do so. The program will, regretfully, have to remain closed source for the forseeable future. Mart inp23 21:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] copyvios

The copyvio speedy, db-copyvio, takes the parameter of url=http://www.blah.com/copiedtext.htm after the | not just http://. It always catches me out when I flag it manually and NPW seems to miss the need for the extra 'url=' too. Thanks again --Steve _(Slf67) ^talk 03:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I have been tagging copyvios manually using the temp without the url=, and it works for simple urls. Certain complex urls (such as those containing a question mark) glitch out, like they're not even there. It would help if NPW included the url=. It would also help me if NPW warned the first contributor on copyvios. Thanks as always. --Butseriouslyfolks 04:49, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is this tool beneficial?

Your program seems to make it very easy for users to propose articles for deletion almost immediately after they are first saved, leading to AfD debates that are frquently (IMO) a waste of time. Can you do something to it so a deletion proposed due to lack of notability or citations could not be completed unless it was compliant with the appropriate guideline--that is, not until after the article had been tagged for no sources, CfDed, prodded, or had its verifiable information merged to an appropriate article. See

One of these was tagged within one minute of its first creation, the others at about 5 and 10 minutes. If the program itself can not be configured to require some restraint, perhaps you should consider some kind of licensing process so that it it not repeatedly misused.--Hjal 06:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

In my defense, as the editor who tagged all three of those articles, they were completely bereft of any asserted notability or attribution, and I had no way of knowing whether or not the editor was coming back to expand them. On WP:POL, under "key policies", in bold, it says:

"Add only information based on reliable sources. Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable published sources, and these sources should be cited so that other editors can check articles."

Also, on every edit screen, it says "Encyclopedic content must be attributable to a reliable source."

Thus, the very creation of an article which consists exclusively of unsourced assertions is a violation of WP policy and deletable.

That being said, I would love it if NPWatcher permitted me to examine articles that were of a certain age (e.g., 1 week, 1 month, 1 year), but then it wouldn't be a NPWatcher, would it? --Butseriouslyfolks 07:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

This isn't exactly on topic, but I think that editors who want to remove the work of others (or to prevail in maintaining their prefered edits) and refer to the rules to support their actions, must, themselves, honor those rules as much as possible. If you want to propose deletion of an article because you assert that it is in violation of a specific policy or guideline, then you should follow the procedure laid out in that guideline yourself. I have ony been looking at AfDs for a couple of months, but I have follwed at least two dozen school-related debates without seeing a single instance of the editor who proposed a deletion having first followed the steps spelled out in WP:N. If I wasn't required to AGF, it would be hard not to consider such actions equivalent to vandalism. New editors start high school articles without knowing all of the policies and guidelines. They need to be educated and their work probably needs to be cleaned up. Experienced editors who take actions that are certain to result in disharmony must be as sure as they can that they are acting within the rules, otherwise they are harming the project, rather than contributing to it.--Hjal 07:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

This is the wrong forum for this discussion, so I am continuing it on User Talk:Hjal. Feel free to join us there for more off-topic fun! --Butseriouslyfolks 07:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

First of all Martin n co I like the tool. For your next version though could you think of adding the escalating warning system to the buttons some how. It's becoming clear once someone has created an attack or nonsense page they are highly likely to do another one, so to continually add {{nn-warn}} to their page is a bit pointless. Might I suggest that the user is given the opportunity once the initial warnings have been done, to increment the warning to {{uw-creation2}}, {{uw-creation3}} or {{uw-creation4}}

Anyway thanks again for the tool ^Khukri 10:47, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll try :) Mart inp23 12:23, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Just another little one for the Delete (nonesense and warn) et al, could you make sure it adds the tag first and then gives the warning. Just had a case of someone had beaten me to tagging the page, and had warned the user. But because it came up the page has changed after it had already warned the user I had to remove the extra warning. Ta muchly ^Khukri 11:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Probably this won't be possible. Orginally the program worked as you descibe above, but this caused problems when an admin wanted to delete a page first, and then warn the user (as with the history gone, it was impossible to find the creator). A can work around this in future, but it could be a little while until I have the time to make the sort of changes required. Thanks, Mart inp23 12:23, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Populating the list

Like the tool and its really helped me get re-engaged with regular new page patrol. I'm just curious how new the pages are when the list is populated. I'd personally prefer to be reviewing pages that were say at least 20 - 30 minutes old rather than those that have been created only a minute or two earlier. This is because sticking a speedy tag on an article that is only 30 second old can be seen as a little bity by the more sensitive amongst us. How about an option to allow users to select whether to populate the list from the first, second or third page of new pages depending on their user display settings. I have mine set on 50 per page so I could then ask for pages 50-70 in the feed.... Just an idea. I hope it makes some sense. --Spartaz ^Humbug! 18:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

It certainly make sense, and is quite doable (and avoids WP:BITE) - I'll have a look at doing it in a future release. Mart inp23 18:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I'd like that a lot. :D --Spartaz ^Humbug! 21:12, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

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