Talk:Martin Van Buren

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Someone Please lock down this page!

Spiffy1001 19:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

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This page has been severly vandalized I suggest it be locked.

Contents 1 Van Capitalization 2 "There is but one reliance..." 3 Trail of Tears 4 Songs 5 Primary Language Not English? 6 internet meme 7 This article needs a cleanup 8 Photo

[edit] Van Capitalization

This article should be titled Martin van Buren. "Van Buren" is correct when the forename is omitted.

• This would be correct from a European or Dutch perspective, but Americans happen to have an odd habit of capitalizing this part of a name.--Pharos 01:13, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• It appears Van Buren himself capitalized the "V"; if you do a search on "Martin Van Buren Signature" a few items signed by him will come up, showing an Upper Case "V". Sometimes we have to be careful in applying current linguistic "rules" to historical figures and discussions. I would keep it as he used it. Smawnmahlau 14:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with this. You (correctly) state the name of his father as Abraham van Buren.

• Since gentry and aristocracy is not recognized in the United States and Martin Van Buren was born in the United States, then the Van (meaning of some distinguished family or place) should be capitalized. But the van for his father shouldn't.Patchouli 23:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

If Martin's father was born in the United States, then his Van needs to be capitalized, too.Patchouli 08:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "There is but one reliance..."

What is that one reliance? What was van Buren referring to?

That would be speculative, and thus is probably better left out of the article. One might assume the answer would be God, but it could also be the product of a mind that lacked lucidity at the time of death. I'm related to him, by the way.

Cowboydan76 01:44, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

you are?

[edit] Trail of Tears

Wouldn't it be a good idea to mention the Trail of Tears in the "presidency" section? I'm not at all familiar with the subject (i.e. President Van Buren) so I'm really just asking — Hillel 08:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Songs

I can't seem to find my original research on Old Kinderhook, but apparently popular songs at the time were written about Van Buren's corruption.

Popular songs and poetry at the time was written about everything, true or not. With a less literate culture and fewer newspapers (copies were passed around because they were dear), there was a premium on communicating through memorable, easily repeatable ditties. Don't tell Madison Avenue.

But if you can track down pictures of some old broadsheets, those might be good illustrations for the article. Sam 13:47, 27 May 2006 (UTC) (please sign your posts with four "tildes" (~).

[edit] Primary Language Not English?

"...and the only whose first language was not English." What was his first language then? --NormalAsylum ^(talk)

• Dutch, of course.--Pharos 2 July 2005 18:49 (UTC)

Is there a source for this? I find it hard to beleive that the Dutch language was passed down all the way from his ggg-grandfather. 141.211.172.204 17:58, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Dutch was the street language in the village where he grew up in 1780s and was the main local language until after 1800. During his stay in Kinderhook, novelist Washington Irving wrote Rip Van Winkle and gathered stories for the Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Ichabod Crane was patterned after the local teacher. see [1] But there were also Yankees in town and Van Buren's father was a tavern keeper who served them. So the boy was most likely bilingual from an early age; his schooling was all English. No biographer mentions any Dutch accent. Rjensen 19:36, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I've changed this to indicate that he spoke Dutch at home as a boy; from my knowledge of the area's history, it is very likely that he was, at most, fully bi-lingual from an early age, and so had no true "first" language, but perhaps just as likely that Dutch was a bit of a relic more used by older generations. By the time he was being raised, the Dutch language was in rapid decline in the area. Indeed, the migrations and dislocations that occurred during and after the Revolution had probably accelerated the decline significantly. But I'd be interested if there is a better source, since I'm basing this on my knowledge of the region, not on specific knowledge of the Van Buren family. Smawnmahlau 14:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Are you joking about English being his second language? Obviously there is no evidence for this since he was no Vladimir Nabokov who wrote books with literary value in English and Russian.

Did Van Buren ever produce any literary works in Dutch? Even if he knew perhaps 4,000 words in Dutch and could carry on a basic conversation, it doesn't mean Dutch was his first language.Patchouli 11:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Van Buren spoke Dutch at a child--hence first language. But he attended an English grammar school, which he quit at age 14 to work in a lawyer's office (where English was spoken), so he never wrote anything in Dutch. Rjensen 02:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

This web site asserts without citation that Van Buren and his wife spoke Dutch at home. studerby 16:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Little late, but that same site mentions he is the only president from Dutch decent, which afcourse is a false statment as both the Roosevelts are from Dutch decent

[edit] internet meme

Van buren seems to come up a lot

care to elaborate on this? Philmcl 02:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article needs a cleanup

It is messy and could use some help

[edit] Photo

Is Van Buren the first President of whom we have a photo? --85.176.2.85 12:38, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I think someone should change the photo of Van Buren...