Talk:Martin Septim

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[edit] Martin was not an Emperor

If one analyzes the main plotline's final scenes, we can see that although Martin makes it to the Temple of the One; he is not formally crowned as he instead chooses to prevent the Daedra invasion by becoming Akatosh's avatar. Thus, we cannot place Martin in the "Septim line" list despite any implications that Martin was Emperor when he died; his status must be absolutely certain. Also note Ocato's statement that Martin "could have been a great Emperor" - again this implies that he was not a de facto Emperor when he died. I will attempt to contact Bethesda for clarification regards this issue; though it is likely they will confirm that Martin was infact not Emperor when he died. -- D-Katana 21:56, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

The ritual of the Dragon fires, is mostly the religious ceremony required to become and Emperor and not all Emperors and Kings of Cyrodiil have activated them. The religious aspect isn't so much to light the Dragon fires, but to make a pact with Akatosh/Shezarr and the Dragonfires are merely an indication that the pact is active. As such Martins transformation into the echo of Akatosh clearly shows that he has divine aproval. So in all it depends on what you think defines a King/Emperor. Divine or worldly aproval? 62.251.15.186 23:55, 24 September 2006 (UTC) Proweler

Okay, I wasn't really sure as I thought I heard the High Chancello say something along the lines that he will be treated like an Emperor, but thanks for the fix. -- Vohod

Martin was recognized as de jure and de facto Emperor by Ocato. He was certainly the one Ocato turned to for orders upon learning of the strike on the Imperial City. He never went through the formal ceremony of crowning. However, in most countries, the next man down in the line of succession becomes ruler the moment the old one dies, not the moment he is crowned. I would argue that Martin became Emperor the moment Uriel caught a mace with the back of his head. It is similar to the American succession. IIRC, Lyndon Johnson was President the moment John Kennedy was declared dead, not when he was sworn in. The swearing in of the Vice President of a slain President is a mere formality. This does place Martin in a grey area, but I believe he was Emperor. When I edited the article, the line of succession thingy showed Martin as Emperor-I've left that. However, I'll try to get in touch with them too, and if they confirm D-Katana's theory, I will return and remove it if he hasn't gotten to it first. Umlautbob 05:43, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Me again. Considering editing the article to reflect the fact that his status as Emperor is debatable. If nobody objects, I'll proceed to do that.Umlautbob 08:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The question in my mind is whether he became emperor when he wore the Amulet of Kings or whether he would have to be formally crowned, or whether he had to light the Dragonfires to officially restore an Empire in Cyrodiil. Nobleeagle (Talk) 06:34, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
I think he became Emperor the moment Uriel died, as I said above. You have to remember, we're talking about "the joined blood of Kings and Gods" here. Mortal ceremonies don't matter as much. This is almost an affair of gods, and I think divine favor would have passed to Martin the moment Uriel died. As to the moment he assumed the throne, there are several points one could argue he assumed kingship. The first is when he first arrives at Cloud Ruler Temple. Second being when he leads the Battle of Bruma. Third being what NobleEagle mentioned- his receipt and wearing of the Amulet. Fourth being Ocato kneeling before him. Last being his sacrifice. Now that I think about it, the Amulet of Kings plays the role of crown. Baurus says it exceeds even the actual crown in importance, dismissing the Red Dragon Crown as mere "jewelry." Therefore, putting on the Amulet is about equivalent to the Crown Prince putting on his dead father's crown for the first time, or a Vice President sitting in a dead President's chair in the Oval Office-in that moment, he assumes the leadership. Anyway, that's what I think. Umlautbob 03:57, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes I agree, the Amulet of Kings only fastens itself onto the true heir of Tiber Septim, when Martin wore it, he stated that it was the "final proof" he needed to know that he was Emperor. So that could be treated as an official crowning. Nobleeagle (Talk) 04:27, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
If I am correct, Martin is wearing a suit of Imperial Dragon armor during the battle for Bruma. Now, Imperial Dragon Armor is only to be worn by the Emporer himself or by someone who has done enough heroic deeds, as in the case of the main character. Martin, at the time of the wearing of the armor, has NOT completed these great deeds. So it is my opinion that this, in addition to what has been previously mentioned, makes him an Emporer. Mahare 02:04, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, I've done my research. According to the Construction Set, it looks the same and all, but it is unenchanted and is called the "Emperor's" whatever. So yea, he does wear the Imperial Dragon stuff. Mahare 02:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
My impression is that that was the armor of Tiber Septim, and that was worn simply because it was handy. Then again, he could also have worn Blades armor-there is more than one full spare suit of it. But, yeah, it being labeled the Emperor's armor is pretty convincing. Umlautbob 14:25, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I would like to point out a line that is said by High Chancellor Ocato... "Courage, soldier. We have an Emperor again."... I found this while searching through Construction Set. I think it says it all really. As for people arguing that Martin is only the Emperor if he completes the ceremony of coronation, relighting the Dragonfires. Is it no the case that he does indeed relight them by sacrificeing himself, hence becoming the Emperor on his death. Any way, just wanted to get my thoughts out there.NobleWarrior 14:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
As I mentioned above, the religious aspect of lighting the dragon fires is making a pact with Akatosh. Martins transformation into the Dragon-God shows that Akatosh has given his approval.
Considering Ocato also names Martin Emperor there is both a worldly and divine approval of Martin as Emperor, be it for only a few minutes. 86.80.122.213 18:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC) Proweler

[edit] Sharp

Did anyone notice if Sean Bean added "sharp" in any of Martin's lines?Bwanaunsignedhype

You know, I'm positive I remember such a thing. I was about to start yet another playthrough of Oblivion-I've been doing strictly stealth characters thus far-and I'll be sure to exhaust all conversational options to find such a reference, if it exists. Umlautbob 08:18, 4 August 2006 (UTC) I am now reasonably certain that he did NOT reference the word "sharp." The only bits of dialogue I know of that I haven't heard are the various responses to what you can turn in to Martin as the Daedric artifcat to use in the ritual to open the gate. The most likely candidate, Goldbrand, elicits no mention of "sharp"-and who'd give up the second best weapon in the game anyway?Umlautbob 13:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

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