Talk:Maple syrup

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
 This page is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on food and drink on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project member page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Contents

I disagree that the thing about Vermont was not NPOV - in fact, it was debunking the idea that Vermont is the premiere syrup producing site.

I welcome additions or clarifications about the entry I made on maple syrup grading, especially if knowledgable folks from Canada or elsewhere wish to contribute what they know about grading in their countries. --Neschek 17:20, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Vermont may not even be the largest producer in the US, as Vermont packers purchase large amounts of syrup in bulk from NY and other areas, thus inflating Vermont's "production." Pollinator 20:16, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)
This statement is incorrect, but is a common misconception. While Vermont packers do purchase a great deal of maple syrup from other states and provinces for consumer packaging and resale, it is illegal to label any syrup sold not PRODUCED in Vermont as Vermont syrup. The production values reported is for syrup produced in Vermont. Other statistics are available that show the amount of syrup purchased by Vermont companies, packaged, and resold as non-Vermont syrup.
Dr. Tim Perkins, Proctor Maple Res Ctr., Univ of Vermont (March 2, 2006)
When was this regulation begun? I know that in past years (1950s and 1960s) Vermont bought a lot of NY syrup that was not identified as NY by label. Or was it done fraudulently? Pollinator 04:35, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
You have a source? Or is this a personal recollection?

"It takes approximately forty litres of sap to make one litre of maple syrup."

How much sap does the typical tree produce?

Here in New England, it varies enormously from tree to tree, and season to season, although 10 gallons (37 liters) is the standard number for a healthy, mature (at least 40 years old) sugar maple. Sap flow is produced by warm days, which expand the sap so it goes up the tree, and cold nights, which contracts it so it comes down. If the weather's wrong - cold days or warm nights in January-February (used to be early March, but climate change has altered that) - sap flow can be just a few liters per tree.
Hey, this is probably good stuff to put in the article, eh? - DavidWBrooks 12:39, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Thanks --Carnildo 03:34, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I am unsure of the average quantity of sap produced by the maples here in Quebec, I however do know that the sugar content of the sap, as well as its quantity varies a lot with the weather (apparently, cold freezing nights and milder days consist of an ideal condition to produce good sap, so the length of the maple sugar season also depends on this factor). --66.11.179.30 19:30, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] No commercial links, please

I removed an external link to a site that sold maple trees. Largely irrelevant and commercial - DavidWBrooks 20:08, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Minor edit

In the Production section, I changed the first sentence to read "... New England and Quebec" (instead of "and New York".) It was misleading before: considering that Quebec produces (as noted farther down) four times more than all of the US, doesn't it merit a mention up there?

The full sentence read
Real maple syrup comes from Canada or the northern United States, especially New England and Quebec.
which implies that Quebec is part of the northern United States. I figured that it was just some random user trying to be silly. I've put the mention of Quebec back in. --Carnildo 22:06, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

About the "four times as much" comment... The stats quotes in the article tell us that Canada produces about three times as much syrup as the U.S. I changed that sentence to remove the contradiction. 24.60.232.93 03:14, 3 July 2006 (UTC)gm

[edit] North American Indians?

I came to wikipedia hoping to read about the North American Indian connection with maple syrup -- either the pre-colonization history of maple syrup amongst native peoples or about the culture which nevertheless grew up around maple syrup. Except, there's absolutely nothing. Can anyone weigh in on this? -- 222.7.147.28 6 July 2005 16:59 (UTC)

From what I remember from school, amerindians would cut an incision and insert a small wooden peg from which the sap would dribble out. As for its use, it was use both as food stuff and medicinal (maple water is supposed to be laxative)--Marc pasquin 21:34, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
This is indeed an interesting part of the topic. Although some more research should be done before adding actual native related information in the article, I do remind information about it. In Quebec at least, natives used to produce maple syrup and to not depend on sugar cane. They would throw fire heated rocks into the sap to make it thicker. When colonization began, at a time where sugar cane was overly expensive, colonizers started to also discover maple sugar learning from the natives, and if I remember a catholic nun was mostly responsible for popularizing it in the newly developing communities in this region... More efficient means to produce usable sugar from maple sap were then developed. --66.11.179.30 19:30, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Some more historical info: Native American peoples (they do not call themselves "Amerindians") taught the European settlers how to make syrup. According to a legend I have heard from local Ojibwa people here in northern Minnesota, the trees originally produced thick syrup ready-made, but Coyote or Nanabush (both trickster figures), felt this made the people lazy, so he climbed to the tops of the trees and poured lots of water in. (Euwell Gibbons also mentioned this legend in his book, Stalking the Wild Asparagus, in the section on sugaring, although he does not name the tribe or the trickster. Gibbons was from the East Coast -- could be there are widespread different versions of the story.) Here in Minnesota the usual species used by the native people to make the wooden spiles was the staghorn sumac or scarlet sumac, both of which have pithy hollow stems which can be scraped out to make good tubes. Many Ojibwa and Anishanabe families around here still do sugaring, but use metal spiles nowadays. (I don't know of any doing it commercially. Mostly it is a family tradition for local use.) Also, many local people (including myself -- I'm not native but knowledgeable) tap boxelders, which are maples and grow much, much faster than sugar or black maples. The syrup was originally boiled down in tight birchbark baskets by throwing hot rocks in. I have this firsthand from local native elders who remember seeing their great-grandparents doing it. However, when the fur trade arrived with metal pots, people switched to using them almost exclusively. According to the Minnesota Historical Society living history folks at the Pine City Fur Post (Pine City, MN), metal pots were a woman's most popular item to trade for, precisely for this reason (and for cooking other things also). Rooster613 18:31, 10 March 2006 (UTC)Rooster613

[edit] Canadian product

For a product that is primarily developed and marketted in Canada, the article is far too U.S.-centric. –Hollow Wilerding 02:29, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Any number of Americans would disagree with the basis for your statement, although maybe not the conclusion. Rmhermen 16:35, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

"Real maple syrup comes from Canada, particularly Quebec, and the northern United States, especially New England and northern New York State." " Does it always, is it made elsewhere, are there any countries where production, as opposed to importation, is illegal?

Why would it be illegal? It's not like it's crack or something...

"However, it can be made wherever maples grow." Well is it?"

"US labeling laws prohibit these products from being labeled "Maple Syrup", many simply calling the imitation, "Pancake Syrup". Do labeling laws in (some) other countries also prohibit this? I believe they do here in Australia. I know that it is legal to *import* it into Australia, I'm not sure whether or not Australian law allows *production* of it.

Myrtone@Maple syrup.com.au

Maple syrup is made in the U.S. as far south as Virginia and as far west as Michigan and Wisconsin -probably farther. But it looks like it is a North American product. Rmhermen 03:05, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
At least as far as Minnesota.[1] And "Fourteen northern states and four Canadian provinces produce maple sugar and maple syrup". Rmhermen 03:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
U.S. production appears to account for one-tenth of U.S. consumption with the remainder made up by importing the large majority of Canada's total production. However, Canadian per capita consumption appears to be about twice that of the U.S. These are rough figures involving data from two governments and some approximations. Rmhermen 05:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Maple syrup, can, in theory, be made wherever Maple Trees grow. However, collection of the sap is limited to areas with the right weather conditions. Sap cannot flow to be collected without the proper changes in temperature. The sap runs only when the temperature changes often between freezing and warm, so the sap is caught while it is running up and down the tree. Also, one buds form on the tree, it completely changes the taste of the syrup, making it bitter and undesirable. Basicly, it might be possible to make Maple Syrup on other continents, but the weather conditions may make for a very short season, if one is possible at all. --Balrog30 04:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Could the pics be moved to Commons?

Hi, would be good if the pics could be moved to Wikipedia Commons, as they could then be used for other language versions of the article, like the Norwegian one. Ulflarsen 14:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vermont comment

Regarding the passage: "Maple syrup is sometimes boiled down further to make maple sugar, a hard candy usually sold in pressed blocks, and maple toffee (similar to taffy) which may be poured on snow to harden it for eating." - I am from Vermont and my family has produced maple syrup for about 30 years and I have never heard it referred to as "maple toffee." We refer to it, perhaps colloquially, as "sugar on snow." (18:08, 26 April 2006 - 134.174.140.88)

Clicking on the "maple toffee" link and you'll see in the article that the term appears to be prevalent in Quebec. I'll add the "sugar on snow" which I have heard in NH as well. - DavidWBrooks 22:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] disease

i heard somewhere that if u ate maple syrup you could get th Maple Syrup disease. Myth or true? --Shandris 15:15, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Myth. There's no such thing. --Carnildo 06:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
So this is unrelated: Maple syrup urine disease? Shandristhe azylean 08:51, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
"Characterized by the urine having an odor similar to that of maple syrup." - not caused by maple syrup. - DavidWBrooks 11:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] grades

I wanted to find out what the 'Grade C' means that my bio organic maple syrup boasts, but it's not mentioned in the article. According to one explanation ([2]) C is now not an official grade anymore and is = B. On the other hand, here ([3]) they say that grade C is such low quality that it may not be sold to consumers but is used for e.g. flavouring tobacco. What is the truth? - Logologics 20:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I grew up on a farm producing maple syrup. I am almost 50 and have never heard of grade C. But we produced for the table market more than anything. The closest I can think of is a grade called commercial. Both the USDA and the Vermont Department of Agriculture include that grade which is used in all manner of products from baked beans to distilled spirits. I had not heard of the tobacco flavoring use. A Google search for Grade C Maple Syrup akes you to a Wisconsin producer, who mentions Grade C and describes it as "The end of the season brings mostly Grade B, which was formerly known as Grade C, with even more minerals and the strongest maple flavor.:

see link:http://www.mastercleanser.com/master-cleanser-2.htm

As this is not the site of a maple production regulatory organization it might all be myth. Not sure. CApitol3

I am a Canadian Maple Syrup Producer. While I don't have all the facts on Grade C, I do know that it is a part of an American grading system. I am fairly certain it is based out of vermont, but I don't have my reference material in front of me to be able to confirm that at just this moment. I do however know that it is an equivalent to Canada No. 3 Dark, which is a commercial grade. The Grading System has nothing to do with Quality whatsoever, but is rather a representation of the strength of the maple flavour. Later in the season, the flavour becomes stronger. Grade C would be the last run of the season. Most producers do not sell this grade to the public, but rather sell it wholesale to bakeries, or for other commercial uses. As a family-operated business, though, my family carries it in our store due to the popularity of the previously linked Master Cleanser fast. It is also popular as a cooking grade, as the stronger flavour comes through better when used with other stronger flavoured ingredients. Hope that clears up any questions. --Balrog30 04:45, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I've been meaning to add something about this for the article. The grading system is based primarily on color, with the lightest-colored syrups getting a higher grade. This actually negatively correlates with strength of flavor. Some sources (eg, Cook's Illustrated) recommend grade B maple syrup over grade A for its intensity of flavor, not just in cooking and baking, but for everyday use. I'm not sure about grade C – I've never seen that on the market. Peter G Werner 20:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What kind of sugar?

Is it primarily fructose? Sucrose? What? —Ben FrantzDale 00:33, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Mostly sucrose. There really needs to be a section on the contents and chemistry of maple syrup. Peter G Werner 02:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Energy Use

Sugaring off obviously takes a lot of energy. This article should say exactly how much. Here's a back-of-the-napkin calculation:

That's obviously a lower bound; it doesn't include the inefficiency of heating or the energy to bring the water up to boiling temperature, but it's a start. If you have a better number, please add it. —Ben FrantzDale 02:17, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

This assumes that the water is all removed by boiling. But as the article says, some producers are now removing 75-80% of the water by reverse osmosis which requires only enough energy to operate the compressor. Would this reduce the total energy requirement by a factor of 3 or 4?

Dirac66 03:41, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I assume reverse osmosis would reduce this. I'd like to know that number too, but the sugar house I visited recently did it the old-fashioned way and apparently produces a few hundred gallons of syrup a day that way. —Ben FrantzDale 04:11, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../m/a/p/Talk%7EMaple_syrup_d2d7.html"