Talk:Mankind Quarterly

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[edit] Verifying Mankind Quarterly contributors

Did Arthur Jensen really contribute an article to Mankind Quarterly? hitssquad

I can't find any reference to him having done so. However without access to their past issues there is no way of being sure. -Willmcw 20:05, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Their website lists the table of contents for issues back to 1985. Any issues published after Spring 2001 also contain the article abstracts, and occasionally full texts. A search of the site conducted through google for 'Jensen' returns 2 hits, both reviews of Jensen's books. --Nectar ^T 20:21, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Since nothing pops up, perhaps we should remove Jensen. We can always add his name again should we find a citation. -Willmcw 20:44, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Will. Next up is Cyril Burt. He died October 10, 1971, so it is chronologically possible he contributed something. But then, MQ is obscure and Burt was a hyper-accomplished elitist. It would have been an odd mix.

It also says he is known for [his] work in race and intelligence. Probably not. Burt is famous, partly, for never having done any work in regards to race. -hitssquad 00:05, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps, as with Jensen, the original author of this article was confused because of articles about Burt. Whatever the reason for his inclusion, I can't find any sign that wrote for the MQ. -Willmcw 06:20, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Verushcka contributed that section. That was his sole edit in this article. -hitssquad 06:34, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Next up is William Shockley. --hitssquad 17:34, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I just emailed MQ about this. The person who answered said that he can't recall an MQ article by Shockley, but that MQ does not have the resources to check unless I would like to pay for them to search their archives. I know that all of MQ is indexed on FirstSearch, so if anyone happens to have access to that they can check that way. I will remove Shockley from the article. If some new data comes in, his name can be restored. --hitssquad 20:26, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Who is J.W. Jamieson? --hitssquad 04:41, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

James W. Jamieson. I included him because he is a frequent contributor and gets many Google hits, apparently for the same person. I don't know anything else about him. -Willmcw 08:07, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps attaining high status in terms of Google hits does not necessarily make one notable. [1] --hitssquad 09:35, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

That;'s one of the questions which keeps bouncing around Wikipedia. Anyway, as for specifics, being a frequent contributor is sufficient reason for inclusion on a list of notables, so far as MQ is concerned. By comparison, some of MQ's other editors are quite obscure. -Willmcw 09:55, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

If there is conclusive evidence that no one cares who a given person is, there may be sufficient reason anyway to put him in an encyclopedia article and label him notable? --hitssquad 10:34, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Apparently "J.W. Jamieson" is a pseudonym for Roger Pearson. Why the editor of a scientific journal would use a pseudonym to contribute is not clear to me. -Willmcw 03:38, September 13, 2005 (UTC)

I went through the Mankind Quarterly online table of contents and did not see any paper by Herrnstein or Murray. If that is the case for the non-online issues as well, that reference needs to be removed. 68.155.77.31 01:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I think you may be mis-reading the sentence. It says that many of the works cited by those two were first published in MQ, not thayt the authors themselves were published there. -Will Beback 03:29, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality and citations

This article needs to be re-written for balance and citations need to be added in order to comply with the Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy. -Classicfilms 17:31, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I've made small improvements, but if you still wish, can you explain how it's particularly unbalanced?--Nectar 06:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your edits. I am not familiar with many of the claims made by the Wikipedia article on The Mankind Quarterly and until they are backed up by legitimate sources, it's hard for me to comment - though as the article is written, it is hard to point out that other types of controversial articles are also published. For example, the following essay published by Mankind Quarterly supports both liberal and feminist arguments. It offers an alternative to the standard representation of Grendel's mother, the character in Beowulf who is usually portrayed as a marginalized monster:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grendel%27s_mother#Germanic_earth_goddess. As the Wikipedia article on Mankind Quarterly is currently written, it is hard to understand how this essay on Grendel's mother would have been published by the periodical Mankind Quarterly - and thus I'm not sure where to add the information. -Classicfilms 14:23, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I have reinstated the neutrality tag for the reasons cited above. -Classicfilms 16:43, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Why would we include a mention of that essay in this article? Frank Battaglia does not appear to be an especially notable academic. Many journals include works that are outside their defined mission. I just don't see what it is about one insignificant essay from 15 years ago that makes this article "totally disputed". -Will Beback 23:20, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Will Beback- thanks for your feedback. The trouble is that this article lacks citations which would help me to understand better what this mission is. Could you supply the citations which would back up the claims of the article? Thanks, -Classicfilms 23:37, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

We can get to that. But what does the Battaglia essay have to do with anything? -Will Beback 00:04, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Great, because without citations the tone of the article seems one sided. As I mentioned, I'm not familiar with the points made in the article and citations would help me to better understand these points. The Battaglia article (which is part of an ongoing discourse in Beowulf studies and is cited in essays on Bewoulf) indicates that the journal publishes articles on controversial topics (in this case, Battaglia's article is of a controversial nature quite opposed to the tone of the Wikipedia article, as it supports feminist and liberal arguments). I don't necessarily have to include it here, but its existence indicates that (to maintain neutrality) the Wikipedia article should state that the journal publishes different types of controversial articles. -Classicfilms 00:40, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Joseph Campbell was on the editorial board, so, taking into account articles like this Bragglia article, there'd seem to be more to the journal than gets presented by anti-racists and anti-hereditarians.--Nectar 00:57, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

The current lede states:

• The Mankind Quarterly is a peer-reviewed journal dedicated to physical anthropology and cultural anthropology and associated with the Pioneer Fund [citation needed]. It contains articles on human evolution, intelligence, ethnography, languages, mythology, archaeology, race, etc.

The essay in question appears to fall solidly within the mission of the journal as we describe it. Classicfilms, are you looking for a source which says they cover ethnography and anthropology? -Will Beback 01:04, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

No, since in terms of anthropology this sentence covers it. I am looking for the citations requested on the page and for an indication that the journal publishes different types of controversial articles. Could you provide that? -Classicfilms 01:15, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, you've lost me. Isn't the Grendel article related to ethnography, mythology, etc.? What's the problem with that essay?-Will Beback 01:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase it? -Classicfilms 04:41, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

<-- OK. You wrote:

• As the Wikipedia article on Mankind Quarterly is currently written, it is hard to understand how this essay on Grendel's mother would have been published by the periodical Mankind Quarterly - and thus I'm not sure where to add the information.

Since the introduction to the article says that the journal publishes articles on "ethnography, languages, mythology, archaeology, race, etc..." it seems clear why the journal would publish an essay (and an accompanying book review) on the mythology of ancient Britain. The second point is that I don't understand why this essay is so important that we should add a mention in the article. The journal has published countless essays and papers. What's so special about Battaglia's article on Grendel? -Will Beback 07:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not contesting that Battaglia's article is about ethnography - and I did say above that we don't necessarily have to include it in the Wikipedia article here, so that isn't the issue. As I said above, Battaglia's article on Grendel's mother is, within the realm of Beowulf scholarship, controversial but in a way which supports a liberal and feminist viewpoint. The Wikipedia article on Mankind Quarterly makes a number of points which are currently not supported by citation, which implies that the journal publishes only controversial articles of a particular viewpoint that would not support articles which are either liberal or feminist. If the requested citations were added - not about ethnography - but the other points made, it would help. -Classicfilms 15:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

So your point is that we say that MQ only publishes controversial articles, but the Battaglis article isn't controversial? I don't see how you get that, as the article doens't mention the word "cotroversy" in the text. -Will Beback 08:01, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Right, unite!

Further information: Aryan_Invasion_Theory_(history_and_controversies)#Later_racialised_theories

it is very funny to see Alain de Benoist and Subhash Kak united as contributors in a racist/nationalist journal: their outlook is really comparable, ethnic nationalism paired with mythic fantasies of noble "Aryan" forbears, just that Benoist of course places the Proto-Indo-Europeans in Europe, while Kak places them in India, each implying, I suppose, concentric circles of racial degradation around the original homeland. This makes them 100% related in terms of their mindset, and 100% opposed in its application to geography dab (𒁳) 14:22, 22 February 2007 (UTC)