Talk:Manifold Destiny

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This is an attempt at documenting this extraordinary article and its account of the remarkable circumstances surrounding the proof, and its verification, of Poincaré's conjecture. As of now, this is a very rough draft, and readers who know more are more than welcome to contribute constructively to the development of this post. --Kidiawipe (Edited to better reflect the object of this Wikipedia article)

Sorry, but I consider this article to be somewhart over the border. The history of the proof of the Poincaré conjecture should be covered there, from a diverse set of sources, and hopefully not now, but some 6 to 18 months later, when the dust has settled. --Pjacobi 16:48, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Pjacobi: Thank you for your comments. I did initially have some reservations about creating this article, but the extraordinary nature of this article demands otherwise. It concerns itself with the human drama surrounding events leading to the proof and its verification, while also not merely presenting an interview with Grigori Perelman, so I believe this merits an article of its own, not to be subsumed (at the moment) under the Poincaré conjecture or the Perelman article. Certainly, things took a twist with the emergence of the alleged statements of clarification from some of the mathematicians.
For an appreciation of the intricacy of issues explored in that article, I can refer you to no better source right now than CH's comments at Talk:Grigori_Perelman, under the section "Apology, Withdrawal, Outline of Major Corrections Needed".
On the Poincaré conjecture article, I believe there is too much noise about the human drama for the liking of a more mathematically-inclined audience, so this article may serve as a kind of quarantine, if you will, of some of the more social aspects of the process.
As for the timeliness or otherwise of the coverage, may I suggest you make your wisdom available to the Wikipedians editing that page. --Kidiawipe
I have no problems postponing the AfD 18 months. --Pjacobi 10:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I predict that a merge with either Grigori Perelman or Poincaré conjecture will be this article's destiny; the Manifold Destiny article itself clearly is not notable. (But its contents add good information to other notable subjects.) But let's let the dust settle first. Arbor 08:10, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I've been of the mind for a while (as have others) that having a whole separate article on this New Yorker piece was too much; however, it seems recent events are proving me wrong, as there is quite a controversy (and apparently a legal battle) developing over Nasar and Gruber's work. It seems less and less likely that the resulting article will be merge-able into either the Perelman or PC articles. --Chan-Ho (Talk) 14:30, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it would seem to be the case, although there appears to be no legal battle as yet, only a possibility of commencing legal action. If the Tian-Yau affair is anything to go by, this may well turn out to be a pitch battle fought exclusively online. Only time will tell. --Kidiawipe

Contents

[edit] "represents an attack"

Lumidek (talk • contribs) replaced "[the article] is a rather unflattering portrayal" by

The biased article, filled with a lot of untrue and distorted statements and conspiracy theories, represents an attack against the mathematical community [...] and Shin-Tung Yau.

I do not think that this formulation is NPOV. Specifically, it represents the POV of Yau , and not the POV of the article's authors. It may be the case that one of this POV's is actually the truth, and the other is completely wrong. But I don't see that -- so far.

I think that "unflattering portrayal" is a good formulation; but instead of saying that the article

represents [...] libel agains Yau

(which is, at the moment, POV), we should mention in the first paragraph that the article is the subject of a libel suit by Yau (which is NPOV).

Aleph4 15:14, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reliable sources

It is particularly important that this article only cites reliable sources. Blog posts and similar are not generally considered reliable; the case for using such as references has to be made in each instance. Charles Matthews 07:22, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] past tense?

Shouldn't the article be written in present tense? The article which it is about still does exist... Subversive element 19:18, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think whether the NY'er article still exists has to do with using present-tense narration, though I don't know the rules. Anyway, I changed the verbs to the present tense where the subject is the New Yorker article or its authors, so it's okay now.

[edit] Frequent reversions

These days, all the edits to this page that I see are reversions, and in all but one case (which instead concerned an IP editor) they are reversions from Mikeeverest1. It looks like there is some disagreement over whether the letters in support of Yau should be quoted or merely mentioned. Perhaps now is the time to discuss this? Ryan Reich 17:17, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

The user in question is not known for discussion. I was going to suggest a Request for Comment, because this is persistent edit-warring with no dialogue. Charles Matthews 18:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I think showing one example letter is perhaps a good idea. Such an example gives a vivid picture of the controversy, and does not drag the readers into too many details. Also I have to say that user "Mikeeverest1" needs to follow the wiki policies to add comments for each modification. User "Chan-Ho Suh" is better in this category. --Jiejunkong 12:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
All it does is give a misguided picture, distorted to what you think the situation is. If you read all the letters on Yau's site, you will see that not everyone defending him thinks the same or agrees on what the controversy is. The same is true for people criticizing him or the actions of some close to him. To reach into this big stew of opinions and select one as representative of a "side" is just plain silly. --Chan-Ho (Talk) 13:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Are you accusing Professor Strook of giving "a misguided picture"? On the contrary, I think you have put yourself in a highland and misconceived yourself as a judge. Who granted you the judgeship on "bias""deceiving""neutrality"? To tell you the truth, I read user "Mikeeverest1"'s quotes and I don't like his/her verbose way of showing all things to the readers. But a deletion war against him/her is also insane. I think it is not a bad idea to leave one there as an example, the other examples can be spared. If you don't agree with me on this, it's your own free will. But I have my own free will to disagree with you at this free wikipedia site. Again, I told you, your hands are not tied to do anything that is truthful and constructive. Go find more documents and carry them here, don't simply delete everything you don't like. --Jiejunkong 13:39, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
BTW, for your sentences in absolute tone like "All it does is give a misguided picture, distorted to what you think the situation is", I think such strongly emotional conclusions do no good for the objective description of the entire Nasar-Yau conflict. --Jiejunkong 13:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] bboard rants

Some anonymeese are ranting on the newyorker bboard, if anyone cares. I'm not going to try to guess who they are.

http://boards.newyorker.com/message.jspa?messageID=1700

[edit] Current event?

Seems like Yau is content with having a sympathetic profile on the New York Times, and is unlikely to sue the New Yorker. In any case, there hasn't been any news regarding the Manifold Destiny affair since the Oct 17 NYT article. I think it no longer counts as a current event. Wikaly324

I agree, the latest development concerning the article and the issues it deals with is the erratum to the Cao/Zhu paper, which was put up about a month ago. Hence the article doesn't qualify as "current" until any new developments take place, so I'm going to take down the current event tag.--M m hawk 17:04, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About deleting witness statements

(cur) (last) 12:15, 17 December 2006 Chan-Ho Suh (Talk | contribs) (rv; this is selective quoting; a number of other quotes for and against can be included, but it's best not to include any)

(cur) (last) 02:34, 23 October 2006 Chan-Ho Suh (Talk | contribs) m (revert unsourced allegations that is probably OR and additional POV material; please also consider WP:BLP, instead of just formatting such edits)

As a third-party audience of the Nasar-Yau conflict, I think it is not a bad idea to show everything on the table. First, those deleted contents are quotes, not unsourced allegations. They can be seen from the letters posted on Yau's site. Second, why not to include any? Who defined such a rule? Showing the supportive letters for both sides is a neutral practice. Yau showed letters supporting him. Nasar can also show letters supporting her. Why not?

BTW, I am not the user "Mikeeverest1", and I don't know who he/she is. But I don't see anything wrong with his/her quotes. Why are you repetitively deleting his/her quotes? --Jiejunkong 12:37, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


If you want to go through the large body of responses (such as all the letter's on Yau's site, New Yorker, AMS Notices, etc.) and create an NPOV-compliant addition to the article, that is fine. But I don't believe it's possible to follow NPOV by following the plan you suggest. How many letters are we supposed to list? Is it really true that the number on one side outnumbers the other? We can't really know. Putting one response and then another as if you are neutrally depicting the situation is deceiving.
Nice to know you are not that user. One problem with that user is s/he did not defend any of his/her edits with reasoned discussion. If you are willing to take up his/her cause with such reasoned discussion, you are welcome to do so. --Chan-Ho (Talk) 12:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I did follow Nasar-Yau conflict for some time. Like I said, nobody will delete a physically true (i.e., not forged) witness statement if you post it here. Before you accuse other people about "deceiving", can you clean up your eyes at first? Why don't you do a better job to carry some physically true statements from somewhere else and post them here? I don't care about "his/her cause", whose cause? What's your cause then? Is this nonsense or what? --Jiejunkong 13:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I said if you followed one response with another, it would be deceiving. Since you didn't do that, nobody is accusing you of deception. Additionally, saying an edit can result in deceiving someone does not imply that the editor is purposefully deceiving others. Stop assuming bad faith of other editors.
I've already made my arguments clear elsewhere on this page. Creating an exchange of this person says this, but another person says this, but yet another person rebuts this with that, is pointless. If you have been following this closely, you will have seen plenty of comments from detractors and supporters of Yau and be familiar with what I am saying. --Chan-Ho (Talk) 13:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Also about "neutrality", do you think British/American legal system is "neutral"? I don't remember that the legal system would shut up any witness who supports either side. Why can't everybody show everything in public and let the jury do the job? --Jiejunkong 13:11, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I really think it would be beneficial for you to read WP:NPOV. This is something hard for newcomers to understand, but editing articles in the manner you describe is not what is best in many cases. --Chan-Ho (Talk) 13:22, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
FYI, I probably joined wikipedia earlier than you did. I know quite a lot about the wikipedia neutrality.  :-) Look at all your strong words. It is hard to convince anybody that you are neutral. Read again what I have said and done here, and compared to what you have said and done here, which one is more neutral? --Jiejunkong 13:52, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
This boasting is unsupported. Even the Chinese account of this user dates from July 2006. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:15, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
To user PMAnderson, I have worked in zh.wikipedia.org for quite a while (obviously you cannot read the language). And before I registered, I have worked in both en.wikipedia.org and zh.wikipedia.org using IP for a long time. --Jiejunkong 22:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
In other words, you have no evidence, and you have no notion how long Chan-Ho edited as an anon. Present a diff earlier than this one (dates in Arabic numerals are international) and someone may believe you. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About "your own bias"

(cur) (last) 12:38, 17 December 2006 Chan-Ho Suh (Talk | contribs) (rv; this isn't about "proving" anything, please read up on policy, cf WP:NPOV), so as to avoid introducing your own bias)

Oh, man. I am shocked. Please think twice before you issue such a statement about "bias". Nobody is 100% neutral, but don't accuse other human beings before you even know them. --Jiejunkong 12:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I was just giving some helpful advice. As you say, nobody is neutral, and thus we need to be careful not to introduce bias. If you want to take my advice on reading up on policy so as to avoid introducing bias as an accusation, that's up to you. I only point out that your edit summary in the one before mine was to say "To Mr. Chan-Ho Suh, you can provide your proofs, nobody will delete it". This is a gross misconception of NPOV policy. So my advice was warranted. Adhering to NPOV does not mean having different people providing "proofs". It is about making describing relevant viewpoints in a neutral way without giving undue weight. It is not about including one POV and then challenging another person to "provide your proofs". --Chan-Ho (Talk) 13:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I was annoyed by your quick-than-lightspeed deletion of my modifications. Frankly speaking, your action was gross, so I replied with some sarcasm. And thank you for your advice on wikipedia policy, I think you also need to read it more carefully to fill in the gap between my actions and your accusations. --Jiejunkong 13:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
If you keep on accusing me about non-"neutrality", please provide objective proofs, not circumstantial slanders. Which sentence in the article is improper? If it is improper, can you modify it to be proper? Why do you have to delete it completely? --Jiejunkong 13:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About deleting proper contents

In the "controversy" section, I vote for keeping the pertinent contents of one sample letter (I used Professor Strook's letter, but any similar letter would suffice). This is very proper in my opinion. A user here intentionally deletes such contents constantly and instantly. This is very weird. I don't think this article is handled properly in this deletion-and-recovery manner. In wikipedia there were similar conflicts amongst users, related contents are modified into proper forms that are acceptable to all arguing parties. I am monitoring the page and want to see an acceptable solution for all arguing parties. --Jiejunkong 14:25, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe that quoting the letter in this article is inappropriate, and contrary to the NPOV policy. DavidCBryant 01:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Factual contents can always be neutralized without deletion.. Also, this wiki article is not long enough to make us worry about curtailing its contents. I don't think you can justify Chan Ho's constant and instant deletion of factual contents. If she doesn't like user Mikeeverest1's insertion, she can always do some modification to neutralize it. But what I have seen is an emotional edit-warring. Why can't somebody do something other than deletion? It is easy to delete a fact when it offends you in some manner. In my opinion, deleting factual contents is a denial-of-service attack which tries to block the audience's eyes from seeing the facts. You threatened me in my talk page about "watching me" from now on. And I can tell you this, you can scrutiny my record in wikipedia and figure out the following fact: I normally delete scientific errors and those forged information from wikipedia's articles. In contrast, you should be more careful to delete factual quotes, in particular, these quotes are from the interviewees (people interviewed by Nasar in "Manifold Destiny") who have publicized their reactions to the article "Manifold Destiny". These are witness statements, not your opinion or my opinion which doesn't count. --Jiejunkong 03:13, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV discussion: Does quoting Stroock's statements violate NPOV?

NPOV refers to "representing fairly and without bias all significant views that have been published by a reliable source". It doesn't mean wikiusers must balance the number of characters of the verifiable statements from two sides, or reduce statements from both sides to a few harmless sentences. In contrast, Daniel Stroock, Michael Anderson and Joseph Kohn were all interviewees of Nasar when she wrote the article. Their views are "significant views", and the quotes are from reliable sources. In regard to the quotes of their statements, NPOV only means "representing fairly and without bias Daniel Stroock/Michael Anderson/Joseph Kohn's views that have been published by a reliable source". I am really surprised to see that NPOV is interpreted to be constant & instant deletion, and used as a weapon to threaten other wikiusers. --Jiejunkong 03:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I have already said it again and again to user Chan-Ho and her supporters, wiki requires that all significant views that have been published by a reliable source. As long as all significant and reliable views are presented in a fairly and without bias manner, it is neutral. Deleting significant and reliable views is denial-of-service rather than NPOV. Is Stroock/Anderson/Kohn's view significant for this wiki article "Manifold destiny"? The answer is yes because their interviews with Nasar were used in her article. Is Stroock/Anderson/Kohn's view reliable? The answer is yes. Is Stroock/Anderson/Kohn's view presented in a fairly and without bias manner? Well, you decide. If you don't think so, then you can modify it to be presented fairly and without bias. In any case, just don't show your temper and delete it. This turns yourself into a denial-of-service attacker. --Jiejunkong 05:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Inclusion of random statements, in an effort to prove something, can be undue weight; the attempted proof is itself not neutral. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not the National Enquirer. Adding inflammatory statements to an article, even when they are direct quotes, is certainly walking close to the edge of the NPOV policy, if not an outright violation of that policy. Especially in a situation like this one, where a lawsuit has already been filed, simply linking to the inflammatory statements is appropriate, and direct quotation is not.
I have read what Jiejunkong has already written about this article. Apparently, Jiejunkong has a strong emotional interest in it. My own personal experience has taught me that when I have a strong emotional interest in something, I cannot be an objective observer. DavidCBryant 18:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
About "random statements" and "National Enquirer": Please have a look at the list of Nasar's interviewees. The interviewees in the article "Manifold Destiny" are listed right here in the wiki-item. These people are involved. These people's views are significant in this case. Otherwise there is no controversy in Nasar's article. For example, suppose we are talking about a wiki-item "Arguments about the wikipedia article Manifold Destiny", then Stroock/Anderson/Kohn/...'s statements are insignificant because they are not involved (but our statements would be significant because we are involved. Otherwise there is no argument). Nevertheless, we are talking about wiki-item Manifold Destiny, Stroock/Anderson/Kohn/...'s statements are thus not random. Will you call a witness in a legal case a random selection? I don't. Concerning user DavidCBryant's threats against me in my talk page, I think we should ignore his emotional statements. --Jiejunkong 21:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
This is exactly what I said on your talk page, Jiejunkong.

I have heard about your dispute with Chan Ho. I have read the subject article, and I have reviewed the contents of the talk page. In my opinion, you are in the wrong here. Chan Ho has repeatedly explained to you what the NPOV means to most of the editors on WP. I agree with Chan Ho's interpretation: when arguments like this one take place, a well written article ought not quote extensively from either side of the argument. It should instead attempt to explain clearly and in a neutral tone of voice what the argument is about, and provide links to the actual statements being made by both sides, so readers who care to dig more deeply can form their own opinions. I believe you owe Chan Ho an apology. I will be watching this article, and you, for a while, to be certain that you understand and adhere to the NPOV policy. Have a great day! DavidCBryant 01:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

If that's a "threat", I'll eat my hat. By the way, Jiejunkong is not immune to the "instant revert" syndrome. I corrected some grammatical errors J. had introduced, and I removed some redundant material that had apparently been copied from its original position within the article to another spot where it didn't make any sense. These changes were quickly reverted by Jiejunkong, who apparently won't even take the time to read and understand the edit summaries other editors place in the history section.
I can understand why you want to mangle the neutral point of view, J. But do you have to butcher the English language in the process? DavidCBryant 23:48, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
This is exactly what I replied on your talk page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DavidCBryant#NPOV_discussion:_Does_quoting_Stroock.27s_statements_violate_NPOV.3F

As to the threat, I mean the following sentence you posted on my talk page: "I will be watching this article, and you, for a while, to be certain that you understand and adhere to the NPOV policy." What do you mean by "watching" me "for a while"? What were you thinking when you posted this threatening sentence? Can you stick on the definition of NPOV and stop threating people by using NPOV as a weapon? Do you really understand what NPOV is? --Jiejunkong 04:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Who are you? FBI? It seems that the sentence leads a path to your hat, in some manner we are still "watching". Talking about neutrality, I think you should stick to wikipedia rules rather than your baseless accusations. My belief is, as long as the rule says it is conforming, you cannot delete it no matter how ugly or offensive you think it is. Those things that are offensive to you may be the truth. At least in the system using these rules, violating the rules by deleting rule-conforming contents is biased and destructive. --Jiejunkong 00:03, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Not that I think you'll understand, Jiejunkong, but you are materially misrepresenting what I wrote on your talk page by adding the bold-faced type (and you) without also including the standard editorial disclaimer [emphasis added]. Oh -- "I'll eat my hat" is an idiomatic expression for "it's just not true", or "it certainly isn't true", or "I don't believe it", etc.
I have not accused you of anything (except misrepresentation, just now). I noted -- on your Talk page, where it was relatively private -- that certain edits you made to "Manifold Destiny" gave English readers the impression that plagiarism is OK, sometimes. I didn't revert those particular edits. Someone else did.
Please calm down. NPOV will be decided by consensus, and not by any one person's opinion. DavidCBryant 13:11, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
First, if NPOV is decided by consensus, then why did you use threatening tone at the first appearance before a consensus can be reached? This does not help the consensus process. Second, NPOV can be done by improving the writing so that a consensus is feasible. I don't see your efforts on rewriting the description of interviewees' statements. All I have seen is that this part is simply blanked constantly and instantly. If you were me, you perhaps would think that this is an interesting thing to "watch". --Jiejunkong 04:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3RR

I count 4 partial reversions by Jiejunkong (all restoring the deleted Strook quote, removed by three other editors) within a 24-hour period: 1 2 3 4. Anyone care to follow-up according to WP:3RR? —David Eppstein 04:23, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Let's see if it comes back again. If it doesn't, why? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Request to verify whether the host IP address (or subnet IP address) of the newly registered user User:Frances benoit is the same as the one of User:Pmanderson. If yes, what a shame! If no, congratulations, you have my respect. --Jiejunkong 06:11, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Vandalism/Blanking is defined as "Removing all or significant parts of articles".
Click 1, all can see that a significantly long paragraph blanked before is recovered.
Click 2, all can see that a significantly long paragraph blanked before is recovered.
Click 3, all can see that a significantly long paragraph blanked before is recovered.
Click 4, all can see that a significantly long paragraph blanked before is recovered.
All of the "proofs" are recovering Vandalism/Blanking. In addition, none of the Blanking refers to NPOV, so they are also not protected by NPOV. Recovering Vandalism/Blanking is not reverting. --Jiejunkong 06:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Something that purports to be Yau's website is not a reliable source for controversial claims; it wouldn't be even if it were certain to be Yau's; and it isn't. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
I think that those are original statements from Stroock and Anderson. Otherwise they would have already sued the website for forging their statements. This is not where the problem is. The problem is to give an objective description of their statements. To do this, please don't blank the description. I am trying to rewrite it to get a better version. --Jiejunkong 03:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
This is pure conjecture (and displays a very limited understanding of the American legal system). The fundamental problems are
  • there is no sound reason to believe these are their statements; websites are hardly ever reliable sources, and never for controversial statements.
  • There is no reason to include their claims at length; it's unfair to everybody else.
Please stop. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Stroock and Anderson's statements are reliable. Concerning self-published sources, Wiki-policy "WP:RS" explicitly refers to the main article "Wikipedia:Verifiability". In Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published_sources_.28online_and_paper.29, it specifies the rules about online sources: "Self-published material may be acceptable when produced by a well-known, professional researcher in a relevant field or a well-known professional journalist. These may be acceptable so long as their work has been previously published by reliable third-party publications.". The website posting Stroock and Anderson's statements is maintained by Howard Cooper of Todd & Weld LLP. We can obviously verify whether Howard Cooper's work has been previously published by reliable third-party publications. Do we have to find the case numbers that Howard Cooper used in various courts (which are reliable third-parties)? Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly named Howard M. Cooper as one of ten 2005 Lawyers of the Year. If your argument holds, from now on Wikipedia cannot quote any plain contents from well-known lawyers' documents. --Jiejunkong 05:09, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
BTW, as you are using suspicious tone, I can tell you that all information listed above is done by a magic tool "Google". I have no relation with that website or whatsoever. Howard Cooper's name is on the first page of that website. --Jiejunkong 05:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism/Blanking

In WP:Vandalism, Blanking is defined as "Removing all or significant parts of articles (sometimes replacing the removed content with profanities) or replacing entire established articles with a spurious redirect is a common vandal edit." Before the controversy is resolved, blanking the paragraph is hardly "readily apparent by examination of the content itself" and can hardly be justified by "non-frivolous explanation for the removal of apparently legitimate content".--Jiejunkong 07:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


There have been edits of this article with evidence for or against the manifold destiny article. The "Controversy" section is a very nice list of events and articles that are related to the manifold destiny article. The last contribution, however, starting "As of February 2007....", I believe is neither a new article, event, or issue that has occurred in February 2007. It reiterates the erratum issue and stance of the New Yorker, which was placed before November 2006. I believe this paragraph was added solely so that the NPR article, which was contributed at the end of December, is an actual relevant event and is favorable to Yau would not be the end. There is already an entire section devoted to the "erratum". If there are people contributing to the article solely to put a bias against yau, I think the wiki editors should take a careful look. frinklemur 15 March 2007

Finklemur makes a good point in his edit, however, he goes too far. The "Controversy" section must be updated and not frozen at some arbitrary point(this is why I changed it to "at present." If you have new information please publish such information but do not remove or erase relevant materials that relate to new developments or the absence of such developments--particularly when the issue relates to one of the parties asserting, but not pursuing, significant legal claims.

[edit] Reaction from the mathematics community

I've added quite a bit to article in the form of a section about various reactions some mathematicians have had to the article and related articles. I thought it would be good to put it here to give the readers some idea of how the mathematics community feels about it, and I hope it's not too out of place here. I did it in one go, so it could probably use some editing for grammar and other things. I'd be happy to hear people's thoughts about it.--M m hawk 06:58, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

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