Talk:Mandalay (poem)

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I have recently visited Myanmar and recalled Kipling's poem, which I learned as a song. Aspects of the poem puzzle me greatly. If the Moulmein Pagoda is in the old capital of Moulmein ( now Maulamyaing) then looking to the sea would be looking to the west and the Gulf of Martaban. However the first line clearly states "looking eastward to the sea". From Moulmein the dawn would appear from eastern Myanmar and beyond in Thailand and not "come up like thunder outer China crost the bay". And kissing Buddha's feet is not part of Burmese Buddhist practice although removing one's shoes in every temple remains current. Am I being too literal? Or are there meanings that elude me? MJMcI 05:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

This poem is a part of family tradition for me. I have never heard the "Eastward to the Sea" version of the first line, although both of the links have it as such. I have a framed copy of the poem on the wall above me and the first line reads "By the old Moulmein pagoda lookin lazy at the sea". When I googled the poem I found the link below. I do not know whether one of the links is an error and the Wiki-version relied upon it. Also see the article at Mawlamyine.

http://raysweb.net/poems/mandalay/mandalay.html

Also, I would note that the poem discribes being on the "road to Mandalay" from Rangoon (Yangon). If one were headed north to Mandalay one could still see the dawn come up like thunder out of china cross the bay.--Counsel 05:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More from MJMcI

Thank you Counsel for your comments. But I have done some more research in the past two weeks and I now think that both lines appear in the poem. "By the old Moulmein Pagoda lookin' eastward to the sea" is the first line and " ... looking lazy at the sea" is a line in the last chorus. This is certainly what I remember learning 50 years ago. From Moulmein the sea is to the west.

In a 2003 Signet Classics reissue edition of Barrack-room Ballads Andrew Lycett suggests that Kipling's geography was a bit wobbly. And on this aspect I agree with him.

On the line about "China 'crost the bay" Lycett points out that India is across the bay. But the full line is "And the dawn comes up like thunder outta China 'crost the bay". India is to the west of Myanmar so the dawn would not have been coming up out of India or anywhere else to the west. And if you were as far north as Mandalay the dawn could come up out of China but it would not be seen across any bay.

So I remain puzzled by the entire ballad as even the commentators seem to have no accurate geographical perspective. MJMcI 11:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Well Mandalay is in centeral Burma, so it is possible that a road connecting Mawlamyine (Moulmein) and Mandalay could loop around the Andaman Sea, part of which creats a nook bordering Mon, Bago, and Yangoon. This finger of the Sea could be seen as a bay, especailly between Bago and Mon provinces. So that makes some sence. Aufs klo 02:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)