Talk:Maktab Tarighat Oveyssi Shahmaghsoudi
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[edit] Honorifics
Please do not re-add honorific titles to the article. They have no place in Wikipedia. See Manual of Style (Islam-related articles). ----Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 16:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Not all Owaisi Traditions are Covered
Why don't we say that this is abou the MTO Shah Maghsoudi silsila and that there are other Owaisi silsilas...
- MTO Shahmaghsoudi is the only OFFICIAL Oveyssi "silsila" that has a direct verfiable lineage not only by the previous Sufi masters with documentation but most importantly with the "Robe of Faghr, Muhammad's cloak which was given to Oveys (now in the posession of Salaheddin Ali Nader Shah Angha). Also, Tehran University Publications issued the direct lineage of the official Oveyssi order and leadership as well as other recognized orders. You can see it here: *Islamic Sufism Genealogy, November 2004, Tehran University Publications. Many schools have opened with the Oveyssi name even in different spellings and masters, which are are nothing but unofficial, fradulent branches of this Oveyssi-yeh order.--Adam255 09:24, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Architecture
I am not Islamic or Sufi, but I recall that all the shapes used in the architecture of the buildings have significance. I do not know what the significance is.
Why do the buildings have the floor plan of an eight-sided star? I notice that the fountain of one center is also in the shape of an eight-sided star. Why is this pattern so prominent?
What is the significance of the curved arch over the front entrance? Why does it project outward, away from the building? Why are the symbols hung on the sides of the entrance?
Why are the doors covered with patterns formed by parallelagrams?
What is meant by "the traditional science of letters and numbers (Jafr)"? What metaphysical truths are they supposed to be representing?
Why is a glass dome covering the centers of these buildings? What is the significance of the metal calligraphy that is atop of most domes?
What is the significance of the emblem? What determines its shape?
Any answers to these questions would be appreciated. Pooua 00:19, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- Pooua, I'm not very familiar with Jafr or what meanings Hazrat Pir had when designing these buildings, but I'll tell you a little bit of what I know and my personal discoveries. The eight pointed star has always been a symbol of Islam as well as a symbol in Hinduism known as the Star of Lakshmi. Inside the main hall forms an octogon. There are ancient stories I've heard regarding the octogon. In Iran, the ancient weight-training facilities, called "Zoor khooneh" were in the form of an octogon as well. In the "zoor khooneh's" there was a leader singing chants of the prophet, saints, and sufi masters. It was a place where the individual was developed and strengthened, perhaps representing what the Pir is doing for the student.
- Regarding the front-entrance and the doors; I do not know what the significance of the curved arch. The symbols on the sides of the buildings are as follows: Left side is the seal of the school which reads "Tarighat Oveyssi Shahmaghsoudi" which means the "Oveyssi-Shahmaghsoudi Order" and the right side is the emblem of the school as seen in the article. in the center is the calligraphical form of "Besmellaher-rahmaner-raheem" meaning "In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful." The design on the doors are purely artistic as far as I know in the persian form of "Monabbat". The design is again, the eight-pointed star.
- Atop all the domes reads the word "ALLAH" which means "God" in Arabic. It's there because its the highest summit and the exact center of Khaneghah.
- The emblem has many multiple meanings, the most known is that if you split the emblem in half, horizontally, it again reads the word Allah in arabic. It also represents 2 hearts; one facing the heavens, one facing the earth. The center diamond is the "Source of Life in the Heart" referenced by Hazrat Shah Maghsoud in his book, Message from the Soul. The emblem also spells the letters A-L-M in arabic which is the first verse of the 2nd chapter of the Qur'an, and most obviously it looks like an Axe, which is called a "Tabarzeen". The "tabarzeen" is a unique symbol of Maktab Tarighat Oveyssi Shahmaghsoudi.
- Regarding Jafr and other questions, your best bet would be to go on the M.T.O. website and I think there is an e-mail address for more information. Also, if you go on the "MTO Centers" site, there is probably a center in your city. They should be able to guide you towards the answers you are looking for.--Adam255 09:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Grounds for Deletion
Please specify exactly which sections do not meet Wikipedia guidelines so that they may be corrected. at the moment, it is unclear which sections are being referred to. This makes correction very difficult. --Jamak 16:23, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
- To start with the objection that is most easily overcome, the article does not meet the requirement of presenting a neutral point of view. This is not a guideline, but a nonnegotiable policy! One particularly egregious example is this: "While mainstream Islam fell into the hands of the clerics and jurists, these masters passed on the inner message of Islam through their teachings, writings, and students. Islam would not have survived had it not been for the selfless sacrifices of these great spiritual leaders." This cannot be presented as a fact; it is an honorable viewpoint, but there exist other significant viewpoints. And who shall be the judge whether this constituted "selfless sacrifices", and whether these spiritual leaders were "great"? Other, weaker but nevertheless unacceptable examples are found throughout the article but in particular up to the subsection entitled "The role of women". After that the article becomes more factual, but also more like a brochure than like an encyclopedic article, which is also unacceptable.
- More importantly, all Wikipedia articles must meet the requirement of verifiability. This means that the statements in the article can be verified by using independent and neutral reliable sources. Articles not meeting that requirement may be deleted. The sources must be identified in the article by providing references. --LambiamTalk 18:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
