Talk:Makoto Kino

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[edit] Slang

You say ""Talent": A fan term meaning "large breasts". This comes from a dialogue change in the second season from the original to the English dub when the characters are debating who should be the lead in a play. Makoto implies she should because she has the "largest chest", while Lita retorts it is because she has the most stage "talent" (the gesture of pointing to herself/her breasts was accompanied with a "boing" sound effect). This slang is recognized by most anime fans due to the popularity of Sailor Moon."

But this is incorrect. Show me one dictionary which defines the japanese word "talent" as having anything to do with mammaries, and I will agree to your interpretation.

  • It's the fandom's thumbing their nose at the dub's general hack of the show. Danny Lilithborne 22:58, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

is she bi because she likes sailor neptune and boys? (unsigned comment by 195.93.21.105)

For God's sake, it's cartoons. No bi, no straight, and no gay. Heilme 00:20, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

i was only asking asshole (unsigned comment by 195.93.21.105)

  • It was Uranus, not Neptune. And she doesn't like Haruka "in that way". She's only impressed with her grace and power. Danny Lilithborne 11:47, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

She isn't as general a rule attracted to females, she just happened to develop a crush on Haruka (Uranus). You can't tell me you've never had even the slightest crush on someone of the same sex before (or if you're gay, of the opposite sex). The fact of the matter is that this is a natural occurrence of adolescence and the Japanese acknowledge this rather than try to pin it down with labels like "gay" or "bisexual." Just deal with it and let it go.

unlike the dub that changed it to best frends that dosnt make sence since they where alredy kinda frends and usagi and the others wouldnt get jelouce if she made frends with other pepole Sailor cuteness 19:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Foreign names

Do we really need the names of the senshis in italian, french, spanish, etc? If so, I recommend creating a list or table with the names in the talk page to later move it to the article, but not throwing the names one at the time, after all this is the English Wikipedia, and the article is about a Japanese character. -- ReyBrujo 03:27, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we should limit ourselves to the English speaking world. These characters have been introduced around the world, which is part of why they are relevant to the encyclopedia. We definitely could have more on the treatments and adaptations of other countries. --Sketchee 04:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
My primary point of view is that they are really not needed. We don't need the name of the actors that made the spanish version, in example. Note that Homer Simpson does not have the spanish name (Homero Simpson), nor Clancy Wiggum has it (Jefe Gorgori). If they are to be included, they should be included in a list, in example, Other languages: Lita Kino (english, spanish), Morea (italian) Otherwise, the statistics section would become too long, focusing only in the name. -- ReyBrujo 04:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
The concencus at WP:ANIME, I think, has been to include only names and and voice actors from English-language and language of original origin. English names are barely notable in most cases, English dub artists are barely notable in most cases. (Unless, I suppose, someone like Vladamir Putin did the voice of Fiore in the Russian dub or someone of that level of fame does a foreign dub.) Let them live on the pages of the original language. --Kunzite 00:07, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Princesses Article

Just so you all know, I've made a new article at Princesses (Sailor Moon). The merge notices are gone now, because that group of stubs has been cleared up. Now that it's done, please feel free to edit and cite to your heart's content! ^_^ -Masamage 20:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Its gone now! the data has should have been merged into the articlesLego3400: The Sage of Time 16:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC) (I can edit from school agian YAY!)

It's been gone for four or five months, and the data was indeed merged. --Masamage 22:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Consistency: Mercury's Profile as a template

Because of the problem of consistency between Senshi profiles, it's been proposed that we make one profile into a template for all the others. Currently, that one profile is Ami Mizuno's. Any changes to the general format of Senshi articles should be made there, and then copied to all the others. This plan is very preliminary, however, so for more information or to make a comment, please see the appropriate section of the series Talk page, so that everyone else can see what you have to say!

So far in this article I have tweaked the hero box, the lead section, and the actresses section. The next thing after the lead section will be a Sailor Jupiter section, as described on the series talk page. Then the 'Profile' section, which will contain information about her history and personality, combining the current contents of 'person' and 'comparisons'. After that is the 'Other forms' section, which in Makoto's case will include only Princess Jupiter. 'Statistics' will follow, reformatted to better match Ami Mizuno's, and then the 'Senshi powers' section, also reformatted. The 'Variations' section will be a much shorter version of what is currently 'Comparisons', noting the specific differences between series. Most of the information currently there will end up in the Profile. The Famous quirks section will go away entirely, and it's contents will be worked into prose in the Profile. It'll conclude with 'Actresses' and other links, just like now.

Lots of work, but mostly just reorganization. Everything currently here will be in the new article, just easier to find. I've had a lot of fun with the Ami and Rei articles, and I think this'll make a big difference in the quality of the whole SM section of Wikipedia. If you have comments about Makoto's article in particular, please post them here! If you have comments about the Consistancy project in general, please comment in the series Talk page as mentioned above. I promise to respond.

Just letting you know for now; I'm off to bed, and plan to do the bulk of the rewriting tomorrow. Thanks, everybody! --Masamage 06:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Couldn't sleep. :PPP Most of this is now completed; all that remains is to rearrange the Person, Comparisons, and Quirks sections into Profile and Variations. I'll tackle that in the morning. --Masamage 08:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Aaaaand I think I'm done. This Variations paragraph became significantly longer than Ami's. ^^;; I ended up removing a lot of details about exactly who all the boys in her past were, as well as the spoilers regarding exactly what happens with Motoki. Please continue to feel free to leave comments here, or to edit my prose, or especially to edit the Powers section. On to Minako, I guess! --Masamage 19:59, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

It's consistEncy. Spelling it correctly will help a lot. I noticed that mistake on several of the pages. I'll try to address it on the major SM talk page. in case you don't see it. I won't fix it because I thinkthat's probably rude. ^^;;--Hitsuji Kinno 02:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Eheheh. Actually, Denelson83 already tagged me on that, so no need to put it on the main talk page. ^^;; I was actually unaware of the correct spelling, a fact I find pretty embarrassing. o_o;;; If you want to change it, feel free; if not, I'll go back through them all and fix it when I get back tonight. Sorry and thanks! --Masamage 02:29, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Note: I've fixed it. X) --Masamage 02:45, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stats updated

Just a few more to go! Yay! I added references, section and verifiable stuff. References and editing have to be done to the main article though... out of the lot so far, this one is kind of thin. (Ami has 20+, Usagi is in the late teens, so this also needs more references as well.) Even if it doesn't currently need it, that means that we aren't demonstrating anything about her character through examples. So it should be cleaned up eventually/ If someone doesn't get to it, I'll attempt a clean up after the stats are finished and reorganized by the powers that be. --Hitsuji Kinno 08:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First Appearance

Just as I did with the Rei Hino page, I changed the note about her first appearance in the live action series from Act 6 to Act 5. Just like Rei did, she appears just before the Next Episode preview eventhough she isn't formally introduced until the next episode. See the Rei Hino talk page for a better explanation.Kakashi-sensei 11:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you again. ^^ --Masamage 19:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Makoto's Sempai is an unrequited love?

From Wikimoon:

Makoto constantly references an "old flame" of hers. The phrase she uses in Japanese is shitsurenshita sempai (失恋した先輩). Shitsuren shita means broken heart or unrequited love...

This is interesting.. Makoto's sempai being an unrequited love, rather than an ex-boyfriend that she's just not gotten over. (World of difference here.. ;) ) Can anyone who speaks Japanese check this out, please? - Malkinann 08:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

According to my dictionary shitsuren means unrequited love or lost love. Sempai (or senpai) means senior or elder. I'm not sure where the shita part comes from or what it means. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 08:17, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure "sempai" is an upperclassman (senior to the speakee). -- RattleMan 08:20, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
A direct translation of "失恋した先輩" using Yahoo's Babel Fish reveals this: "The senior who is disappointed in love". -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 08:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Sempai is indeed upperclassman. Shita is a marker for a past-tense verb, so that "Shitsurenshita" would basically be "unrequitedly-loved." --Masamage 08:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

So my question is, where in the series does Makoto refer to Fureddi-kun by this full "title," rather than just as sempai? --Masamage 08:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Not sure, this passage came from Wikimoon. Considering that "shitsuren" can also mean lost love, I think that the phrase could be translated as "The upperclassman who had broke my heart". -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 08:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
True. I still haven't seen most of the classic series in Japanese, so I have no idea how this relationship actually worked. I'll ask the Wikimoonians about it. --Masamage 08:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Actually, now that I think about it, I'm pretty certain the subtitles did say that the upperclassman broke her heart. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 08:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Do you remember which episode? If so, it'll be pretty easy to verify. --Masamage 08:54, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Her first episode I believe: "Jupiter, the Brawny Girl in Love". -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 09:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, okay. Not much detail here, but there is a mention that her long-lost-whatever had said she wasn't his type. (It's implied that was because of her size.) --Masamage 05:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Youtube link for part 2 of that episode - the subs seem to translate it as 'the senior who broke my heart'. I just can't hear exactly the phrase. - Malkinann 23:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Nice find! Yeah, she definitely says "Ano hito, atashi ga shitsurenshita sempai" and then stuff I can't make out. Which would be, "That person [looks just like] the upperclassman I lost my heart to" or however we want to translate that. Later, the thing about the sempai having said tall girls weren't his type is also confirmed. Bravo! --Masamage 23:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I just watched that episode of my DVD. If you're talking about the part when Mako-chan meets Motoki... Mako-chan says: "Atashi no Shitsuren shita senpai to sokkurida..."　「あたしの失恋したセンパイとそっくりだ」. Then after Usagi speaks, Mako-chan responds with: "Koe ga sokkurinanda..."　「声がそっくりなんだ。。。」. She also just says "Sokkurida... Senpai" 「そっくりだ。。。センパイ」 when she sees Jo for the first time. ~ Fighter4luv 04:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
How's this for a rewrite? Still a little clumsy... - Malkinann 00:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Fans of the anime typically have a perception of Makoto as extremely boy-crazy. A recurring gag is her obsession with people who look like the sempai who broke her heart. In the English dub, his role was changed to being an ex-boyfriend (named Freddy). In the manga, "sempai" is mentioned only once or twice, and in the live-action drama is an integral part of why Makoto feels she needs to be alone. In each version, there are mentions of other men who were very briefly a part of her life. Makoto is generally attracted to Motoki Furuhata, especially in the anime, but only in the live-action show do they become close.

I'm a little confused. Why are we still using "sempai" instead of "senpai"? JuJube 04:26, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

My mistake. M and N are too close on the keyboard :P i didn't even notice I made that mistake. At least the katakana is right :P -- Fixed. ~ Fighter4luv 04:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, it's no one's mistake, really. "Sempai" is just a really old romanization. ^_^ JuJube 04:56, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
It's pronounced sempai, so that's what I type. --Masamage 07:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] dub voice

"In the English dub, Lita is played by Susan Roman. She is the only significant human character in the English-language dub to be played by the same voice actor through the entire series run"

i know for a fact that sailor mars voice wasnt changed Sailor cuteness 19:32, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

oh i allwas thourt they where the same sorry Sailor cuteness 14:16, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Afraid of airplanes?

"and is afraid of airplanes due to the manner of her parents' death"

Episode 188 clearly shows that she's quite comfortable in the airplane, even after taking off. Since I haven't read the manga, is this a mistake in the anime?

Zyppora 19:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow, good catch. I didn't even think of that when I saw that episode. She's definitely afraid of airplanes late in the manga (in her Exam Battle story, specifically); just seeing one on TV makes her freak out and dive behind the curtains. I think it's mentioned at least once early in the anime too, so I don't know what's going on there. Maybe I'm wrong? Or maybe she just recovers. Hard to say. --Masamage 19:41, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

mabye after years of fighting all manner of monsters and other icky thingys she might have realised that there are scary things then airplanes sailor cuteness-ready for love 15:18, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thats a good point, i mean, if I had to risk my life everyday to save the world, An air plane is the last thing that would scare me. Also in SuperS one of the Targets built a man powered air plane and she cheered him on just like the others. Though seeing as it was man powered and not a real plane it might be a diffent story. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 16:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
The difference with fighting a variety of monsters and getting on an airplane is giving away control. When you're on an airplane, all your martial arts skills are worthless. Should anything happen, chances are slim, even if you are a Sailor Senshi. --Zyppora 10:02, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

yer but she survived being on a astroid heading to earth so there is a way (but only with sailor telport or the silver crystal probly) sailor cuteness-ready for love 12:48, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

ahh but Mamoru got careless in a airplane and look what happend to him sailor cuteness-ready for love 18:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

There's a better answer to the question: the people that made the anime fucked up. JuJube 10:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but we cannot put that up on the Wiki, now can we? ;) I know Takeuchi-san said she wasn't pleased with the way Stars was turned into an anime (sorry, no source), but surely this is one big inconsistency with the manga that even she, or the creators of the anime, couldn't have overlooked. --Zyppora 10:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure she noticed, I just don't think she could do anything about it. If she wasn't give veto power over such a huge change as the sex of the Starlights, I really don't think they would listen to her about Makoto not being able to get on an airplane. JuJube 10:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, or the Starlights being primary characters in the first place, or Kakyuu not being a Senshi, or ChibiChibi's identity... The source for these, incidentally, is the fifth artbook. :) (She talks a lot about how mystified she is by Toei's choices. It's awesome.) --Masamage 17:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

wouldnt it be ironic if after years of beaing afriaid of planes sailor aliminun siren crashed the plane before usagi got on sailor cuteness-ready for love 11:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes it would, but how could one crash a plane that hasn't taken off yet? --Zyppora 08:53, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

im sure a show where men can transform into women and girls can get sailor suits out of nowhere can pull it off lolsailor cuteness-ready for love 14:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Technically that's not irony. It's just crappy luck. XP --Masamage 18:03, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name translations?

Lego3400 added the name translation "Truth Woodfield" to Makoto's article, right up in the top. While I agree that some discussion of the name-puns could be appropriate (with citations), I'm not sure that it should be right at the top, as Makoto isn't widely known as Truth Woodfield. That could maybe come in the profile, as in Minako Aino's page. Thoughts? -Malkinann 08:59, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

It definitely shouldn't be at the top. The names are so full of punning and interesting facts that we'd need at least a whole dedicated paragraph.
Possible locations...maybe the very very end of the profile? We could semicombine it with the "preliminary dub name was Sara" bit. --Masamage 18:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I think name translations are somewhat trivial and shouldn't be in the opening paragraph, if at all. But that's my own opinion. JuJube 20:23, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I think there's a sufficient amount of work put into them, what with the multiple apt meanings and with the jokes made on them within the series, that they deserve at least a mention. But yes, definitely not in the lead.
(At least Usagi, Chibiusa, and Hotaru get their names punned on by other characters, that I know of. And the English names of Makoto, Setsuna, and Mamoru are derived from their Japanese name meanings.) --Masamage 21:07, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps it's possible to give it its own section on a more general page, and include the meanings, translations and puns of all Senshi on them? As said before, there's quite a bit of work put into them. --Zyppora 12:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music Storage

A number of songs featuring Makoto's character have been released.[1]

From the original anime, sung by Emi Shinohara:

  • "Anata no Sei ja Nai" (It's not your fault) from the first series
  • "Star Light ni Kisu Shite" (Kissing in the starlight) from Sailor Moon R
  • "Wasureru tame ni Koi wo Shinaide" (In order to forget, don't fall in love) from Sailor Moon R
  • "We Believe You" from Sailor Stars

From the English anime, sung by Patricia Tollett:

  • "Daddy's Girl"
  • "Rainy Day Man" (replacing "Anata no Sei ja Nai" in the episode it was featured in).

From the musicals, sung by various actresses:

  • ZigZag Slash

From the live-action series, sung by Myū Azama:

  • "Miracle Dance Night"
  • "Lovely Yell"
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