Talk:Majority criterion
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[edit] What is the opposite?
I can imagine an opposite criterion, that if a majority of voters prefer all other candidates to a given candidate, then the given candidate should not win. Which criterion is this (I'm sure it's in here somewhere!) ? This article should perhaps have a link to it?
[edit] "This criterion is not accepted by all voting theorists"
This is not a useful statement, as it applies to any criterion. If it were useful to be in an article, it should go on every criterion page, not just the criterion that is failed by User:Fahrenheit451's favorite voting method. RSpeer 14:59, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
User:Rspeer|RSpeer is back to false accusations and POV editing. It is a useful statement because it is true and I would agree that such statements should qualify voting method criteria. So we are not disagreeing on the truth of the statement, but rather if it is "useful" or not. --Fahrenheit451 15:04, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
You made such arguments on the Borda count page also. I respond that it is essential for information in Wikipedia to be useful, neutral, and true, and that truth is not a justification for including uninformative and misleading information.
From your point of view. I consider Not putting such a disclaimer in the definition to be uninformative and potentially misleading. --Fahrenheit451 21:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It is highly suspect that the one criterion page you happened to include this statement on is the one failed by your favorite method, the Borda count.(Removed personal attack), while I am trying to put all well-known methods and criteria on equal footing. Can you guess what my favorite voting method is from my edits? RSpeer 18:58, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
I am begining to wonder if you are a suspicious person. I have been working to make all method articles accurate, relevant, and neutral. I don't know what "equal footing" means to you, but it is not Wikipedia criteria. From your antagonistic remarks, you favorite method is clearly not Borda count, plurality voting, or IRV. I would say the Schulze method is a, but not necessarily the, favorite of yours. Incidentally, Borda count is not my only favorite. --Fahrenheit451 21:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The statement that you removed as a personal attack was not an attack on you, but on your contributions. For the same reason, I have not removed your allegation that my edits are POV.
Not bad on your guesses. Overall, I'd say my current favorite voting method is Approval, but I generally advocate using the right method for the right purpose. Schwartz Sequential Dropping (is that what you mean by Schulze?) is good for a crowd of geeks, like the Debian project, but too complicated in its statement for nearly any other purpose. And I think that Borda is pretty bad for elections, true, but actually pretty good for contests.
- My other favorites are the Approval voting methods. These are easier for most folks to understand and deal with. e.i. There are some who are revolted at the thought of having to score all candidates on a ballot, even though they were nominated by their parties and should be given their due. CSSD is the same as the Schulze method. I think Borda works very well for elections with pre-screened candidates and honest voters. There aren't many political scenarios where those conditions are extant, so some variety of AV is the way to go. We certainly agree on the worst ones. --Fahrenheit451 22:25, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I'm still not convinced that a statement that "This criterion is not accepted by all voting theorists" needs to go on every criterion page. What would it mean if a criterion were accepted by all voting theorists? That all voting theorists agreed that methods that failed that criterion were unworthy of being considered? I don't think a reader would be expecting there to be any such criterion.
- I never was interested in going to war over that point.--Fahrenheit451 22:25, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The Voting method page already states that no method can meet all the criteria. This statement should possibly be expanded, to explain that you (the implementor of a voting system) need to look at the criteria and decide which ones are important to the situation, when evaluating voting systems. But I am still against redundant text being placed on every criterion page, and especially against it only being placed on this page.
RSpeer 22:01, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Bad English
" The criterion states that if a majority of voters strictly prefers a given candidate to every other candidate and votes sincerely, then that candidate should win."
This sentence, taken from the article, is nonsense: (i) it is not the strictness of voters that is relevant, but the strictness of the majority; and (ii) how is the sincerity of voters intentions to be measured ?
A better sentence would be:
"The criterion states that if a strict majority of voters prefers a given candidate to every other candidate, then that candidate should win."
Thoughts ?--jrleighton 04:09, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
- Once again, this wording comes from the electionmethods.org wording, where most criteria are defined in terms of sincere preferences.
- (i) The term "strictly prefer" is used in case that "prefer" could be taken to mean "likes no less than."
- (ii) Sincerity doesn't have to be measured. You set up a scenario and declare, "this faction is voting sincerely." Criteria aren't passed or failed based on actual elections.
- KVenzke 00:04, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Redundancy?
What is the difference between Majority criterion and Condorcet criterion? Why are there separate articles for them?
- The majority criterion only applies to first preferences: it says that an option should win if a majority has that option as their first choice. It is implied by Condorcet, because anyone who is the first choice of a majority necessarily beats every other candidate pairwise. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 15:17, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
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- Thank you for clarification. I think that the wording of the article could be improved to emphasize the difference, but I feel I do not know the subject well enough to make the correction. When I read the article I thought that it meant pairwise comparisons.
[edit] Range Voting
I notice that the change 02:01, December 23, 2006 by 71.252.99.34 added that range voting does not satisfy Majority criterion. There is a current issue as to the factuality of this on the range voting page. Does anyone have a citation to back up this claim? Thanks. WilliamKF 23:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
