User talk:Mafia Expert

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Contents 1 Pentito 2 Lo Piccolo article 3 Trial of the 114 4 Semiprotection 5 Bonanno crime family 6 Category:Mafiosi 7 Article in need of cleanup - please assist if you can 8 DYK 9 Salvatore Greco 10 Terrific Work 11 DYK! 12 Mafia Wars 13 Salvatore Greco "Aghmoochimoochi" 14 Nobel Peace Prize 15 Hoowdy 16 Sicilian American 17 Salvatore Lima and Category:Political bosses 18 Unspecified source for Image:Aglieri_arrest.jpg

[edit] Pentito

Hi there;

Thanks for your message about pentitos and pentitis.

I think the various articles on the Sicilian Mafia have been coming along nicely in the last few months. When I turned up at Wikipedia over two-years ago I think the only Sicilian Mafia article was on Salvatore Riina and it involved two sentences. It can be difficult to get info on the Sicilian Mafia though, most true crime books and websites concentrate on the USA Mafia, and there's a lot of conflicting accounts of various things. Still, there's quite a good amount of stuff here. Robert Mercer 19:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lo Piccolo article

Hi. I am interested in the Sicilian Mafia and was reading the Lo Piccolo article. (I did some minor style edits but nothing substantive since I am not an expert.) The last paragraph explaining why Lo Piccolo's stature in the Palermo region is disputed. It is very confusing--at least to me--and the references do not make it any clearer. Would you be able to clarify what the issues are? Thank you for a great article!

--Fortheloveofhampsters 02:00, 12 August 2006 (UTC

Hi, thanks for the editing, it improved the article. I am not a native English speaker, so any improvements in style and grammar are very wellcome. However, you need to be careful with editing. The part on Cinà being the personal physician was altered in such a way that it changed the content. I will have a look at the paragraph on Lo Piccolo’s stature. I see what you mean and will try to fix it. Mafia Expert 12:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I think I understand the last paragraph better now. I still don't understand how the authorities avoided a war. Was it because Rotolo was jailed? --Fortheloveofhampsters 01:07, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trial of the 114

Hi there,

Me again. Good work on the Di Cristina article.

I think - mostly thanks to us two - we have a pretty thorough collection of articles on the Sicilian Mafia here at Wikipedia. Probably the most thorough resource about Sicilian Mafiosi on the 'net in fact; putting Pino Greco or Luciano Leggio into Google brings up the respective Wikipedia articles as the first hit. I'm planning on doing an article for the Trial of the 114, although I may just do one for Sicilian Mafia Trials of the 1960s, which is a bit of a mouthful, but might be more appropriate; the Trial of the 114 was sandwiched between the earlier trial concerning the meeting between the American and Sicilian Mafiosi about the heroin trade, and the 1969 trial concerning the Leggio and Navarra war.

I think it would be best if I took the latter option and lumped all three trials together into one article, Sicilian Mafia Trials of the 1960s, as they were all linked together in that they resulted from the same crackdown. Let me know if you have any ideas or advice. Anyway, I intend on getting round to it this weekend.

Hopefully I'll also find time to expand the Giovanni Falcone and Paolo Borsellino articles too.

All the best;

Robert Mercer 22:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi again;

Thanks for your comments regarding 1960s Sicilian Mafia trials, I didn't realise that the Trial of the 114 was so complicated. I wasn't aware there was one in the 1970s too.

I think it would be best if we had an article titled Sicilian Mafia Trials that can briefly summarize all the main trials throughout the history of the Sicilian Mafia. It could start with the 1900 Emanuele Notarbartolo trial. Then perhaps Cesare Mori's crackdown in the 1920s (although I believe he did not try the Mafiosi, merely threw them in prison.) The first trial of the 1960s, regarding the Grand Hotel Des Palmes meeting will obviously be mentioned, as will both Trials of the 114 and the Corleonisi one (or Leggio + 63) and finally the Maxi Trial. Each trial can have a brief summary, one or two paragraphs, with a link to the main article (like For full article, see Leggio + 63 Trial.) Obviously we can turn off the redirect for the Trial of the 114 so it can have a seperate article. I will need your help for the Trial of the 114, especially the 1970s one; as don't speak Italian I only have the limited English-language sources like Excellent Cadavers and these are fairly brief about the Trial of the 114. I don't know whether it would be best to have both Trials of the 114 in the same article of for each to have a seperate article. It depends on how much information we can have for them.

I think we should have a seperate article titled Second Mafia War. A lot of information about this war is under Salvatore Riina, but I think it deserves a seperate article. I can just cut and paste a lot of information from Riina's article. Most recent Mafiosi, like Michele Greco and Stefano Bontade, had key roles in the Second Mafia War so it would be good if it could have its own article for these individual's articles to link to. As for a page about the Leggio/Riina/Provenzano faction titled Corleonesi, I think a lot of information regarding them would be included in the Second Mafia War article, perhaps in a section regarding the lead up to the war.

Likewise, there could be a seperate article for the First Mafia War using a lot of information already on the page for Michele Cavataio. The First Mafia War and Second Mafia War will obviously mention that they lead to the Trial of the 114 and Maxi Trial respectively.

So to summarize, there can be a seperate article for the main trials, with all of them listed and summarized under Sicilian Mafia Trials (1960s Sicilian Mafia trials can be simply redirected to this new page) and a seperate article for The First Mafia War and The Second Mafia War using (and expanding on) information from Salvatore Riina and Michele Cavataio respectively.

Let me know what you think. Robert Mercer 10:25, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. I will try and get to work on some of these changes, and I certainly agree that the Sicilian Mafia Trials should include ones up to the present, certainly including Andreotti's. Perhaps the Pizza Connection case should be mentioned; it took place in the US but involved Sicilians. I was considering using the titles First Sicilian Mafia War and Second Sicilian Mafia War; I do not believe there have been any conflicts within the US Mafia that could be referred to "Mafia Wars", which would indicate the whole orgnization being involved, but I believe adding "Sicilian" into the titles would avoid any potential conflicts in the future. Plus it would clarify things from the outset; many people, in my experience, think of the Americans rather than Sicilians when they hear the term "Mafia".

Finally, good work on expanding the Cesare Terranova article; I think its right that the anti-Mafia prosecutors have as much information as the Mafiosi themselves. I'm still planning on expanding the Giovanni Falcone and Paolo Borsellino articles. It shouldn't be too hard as there is a lot of biographical information about both in Alexander Stille's Excellent Cadavers.

Lots of work to do, but it'll be worth it! Robert Mercer 11:58, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semiprotection

Please understand that semiprotection is to be used very sparingly and as a last resort. You wanted the article to be permanently semiprotected; with very rare exceptions this is never done. Wikipedia is "the encyclopedia that anyone can edit". Restricting anon edits goes against what wikipedia is about- many new users first encounter wikipedia as anonymous Ips, and eventually become valued contributors. These new users are the lifeblood of the project.

As is, the Mafia article receives very low intensity vandalism, and can be handled easily by our Vandalism Patrollers as well as regular contributors to the article. We consider it important that everyone who wants to contribute to Wikipedia can do so- and if it means that some vandalism pops up once a day for a few minutes, so be it. And remember that Anon Ips can make constructive edits too. [1]Borisblue 04:20, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

The question is very simple: whose side are you on, the people who want to make serious contributions or the ones who are there to mess up? - No, it's not that simple. There are anon users who have been here longer, and have contributed more to Wikipedia than you or I have. Take User:69.145.123.171 for example. And like I said, a lot of anons will potentially be established editors and dedicated contributors- one anon I know whom I warned for vandalism eventually became an administrator five months later. Those anons who have clearly malicious intentions are blocked- this is a far more effective measure of dealing with malicious vandalism than semiprotection. If one case of vandalism a day was enough to semiprotect an article, we would have to s-protect 25%-50% of our articles, which would fundamentally alter what wikipedia is about.

I understand your frustration- and a lot of other editors feel the same frustration. Don't feel compelled to correct vandalism if you feel that this is not what you want to do- Wikipedia is a volunteer project after all. You are clearly a very dedicated content contributor, and people like you are the lifeblood of wikipedia. But a lot of anons are, and will be dedicated contributors too, and we want them to have the freedom to contribute as well even if they don't feel like registering at first. Borisblue 03:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bonanno crime family

Hi - the Bonanno crime family article is in the process of being trashed by somebody. As the expert on the subject, is there any chance you could take a look at it to see if it is worth keeping the recent edits made (most of which are dubious in my opinion) or reverting to a previous version? Let me know what you think if you could, thanks. C i d | talk 27 October 2006, 16:17 (UTC)

Little Joe Shots, that's the fellow. I've left a couple of messages for him but no reply so far, so as you've done the same, I suggest we give him another few days to respond, then revert the edits. I did start trying to edit his latest version of the Bonanno piece myself but it's a complete mess, and as you say full of uncorroborated nonsense. I'll get back to you after the weekend if he's not responded. Thanks. C i d | talk 27 October 2006, 16:42 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Mafiosi

Mafia Expert,

I've brought up the issue of reorganizing organized crime related articles at WikiProject Organized crime if you'd care to comment on the subject. MadMax 08:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article in need of cleanup - please assist if you can

[edit] DYK

On December 15, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Giuseppe Calderone, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Hello Mafia Expert and congratulations of living up to your name. GeeJo kindly nominated your article for inclusion. Feel free to self-nom in future. Keep up the great work...Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salvatore Greco

Can you confirm that Greco's nickname, ciaschiteddu, means little bird? According to Peter O. Chotjewitz (ISBN 3-462-00942-7) it translates as shape of a Chianti jug, playing on Greco's short and stout physique. I can't find any other good evidence for either translation. ~ trialsanderrors 10:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I have seen the version of the Chianti bottle also in some sources. However, the most common translation is "little bird". Maybe the shape of a Chianti bottle is not unlike that of a bird? -- Mafia Expert 10:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I added the jug translation, maybe we can get a native Sicilian speaker to resolve this but as long as the sources disagree we should include both. ~ trialsanderrors 21:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Terrific Work

I ran across your new page Nitto Santapaola and I must say all the pages you've created are very interesting. Keep up the good work! Static Universe 18:29, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK!

On 27 December 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Antonino Calderone, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thank you for your contributions! Nishkid64 21:29, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mafia Wars

Hi MafiaExpert;

Good work on getting two entries on the Did You Know? section on the Main Page.

I recently submitted Michele Greco and Salvatore Riina for ratings as biographies. Greco got a 'Start' and Riina got a 'B', which isn't bad.

I've been a bit busy recently but I want to carry out my previous plan of turning the 1960s Sicilian Mafia trials into an article titled Significant Mafia Trials, so it can cover the whole of the history of the Mafia, with appropriate links to those that have their own articles (so far only the Maxi Trial.) As I may have mentioned before I may need help expanding on the Trial of the 114; I only have English language resources to work on (translation software is never very good; for example, BabelFish always translates Cosa Nostra into English as "what is ours"; it's a grammatical nightmare!) None of the books and websites I use for info mention the retrial of the 114 in the 1970s.

I also want to get round to doing the First Mafia War and Second Mafia War articles. I think they deserve their own pages.

Once again, good work on the recent new articles. There's a lot of good entries for Sicilian Mafisio and I hope the articles on the First and Second Mafia Wars will help link a lot of them together.

Robert Mercer 21:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Salvatore Greco "Aghmoochimoochi"

I did a history merge. Cheers. - crz crztalk 19:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nobel Peace Prize

Yes, I've taken it on myself to remove this type of unverifiable information from the encyclopedia. As I've said before, nominations are secret unless they are either publicized by the nominator or are in the database of nominations prior to 1955. I checked Dolci and he isn't in the database. If we know who the nominator was, and if he announced it, then we might be able to verify it. Even if we can verify it, a Nobel Peace Prize nomination is such a minimal honor as to be inconsequential. In some cases the nominees are wonderful people who are truly deserving, in other cases they are cases of self-promotion (Bill Handel). -Will Beback · † · 19:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

PS: The AFSC nominations are an example of a clear announcement of a nomination in a notable fashion and so are unlike the anonymous nominations that are claimed in most other cases. I have no objection to including them, and it may even be worthwhile to include a mention in the biography of each nominee. -Will Beback · † · 22:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hoowdy

Hi Mafia, I see that you reverted one of my changes. I am trying to standardize all articles per WP:MOSBIO per item #3. The article should mention the person's nationality in the lead sentence and then go into ethnic background in the main body of the article. I know that persons born outside of the US can be tricky so....Thanks --Tom 21:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sicilian American

You left me a message on mentioning ethnicity. I understand you (and others?) have established a rule that ethnic background should not be mentioned in the first place, but nationality. I do not quite understand the rationale behind that (what is wrong with ethnic background?), but maybe you can explain it to me. Once you establish a rule, you are bound to have exceptions. It is not mentioned in the article, but the person we are speaking of was born in Sicily, and returned to Italy and Sicily during his life. He hardly spoke English. Anyway, as a member of the Mafia and looking at his background, I think it makes sense to mention he is Sicilian-American. As you can see, there is a whole article on the subject. - Mafia Expert 23:20, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I would refer you to WP:MOSBIO specifically item #3. This is a policy/guideline rather than a hard fast rule(also I wasn't involved in its creation but fully support it). Also, this applies to the just the LEAD sentence and discussing ethnicity further into the article is perfectly exceptable and encouraged. The problem is many articles were calling people Irish-American or Polish-American or Jewish-American or, well you get the idea. I will admitt that people who were born outside the US present more problems. I see alot of "Joe Blow was a Russian born American gum chewer" ect. This seems to be a middle ground on a very touchy subject. I have found that 90% of ethnicity additions are based on nationalist pride which is understandable but not appropriate. 10% are done out of some form of nasty agenda pushing which is also not appropriate. Anyways, my revision was nothing personal, but rather my attempt to see Wikipedia reach some sort of biographical standization of a very tricky and emotional issue. Cheers!--Tom 23:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Salvatore Lima and Category:Political bosses

Hi. I see that you removed Salvatore Lima from Category:Political bosses. I acknowledge that I know very little about this person, but I'll explain my action. In return, I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning. I recently encountered Category:Political bosses because an article on my watchlist had been added to it. I looked at the category, and observed that it was very US-centric, although the article Political boss (which needs sources) describes the phenomenon as occurring throughout history and throughout the world. I looked for examples of non-US political bosses to add to the category. I concluded that Salvatore Lima fit the profile of a political boss almost as well as anyone, being someone who wielded tremendous political power, largely behind the scenes, primarily through patronage and possibly various forms of political corruption. (Not all politically bosses are corrupt, but many are. Indeed, the person who had established the Political bosses category had included it in Category:Mob bosses. I removed Political bosses from the Mob bosses category because not all political bosses are mob bosses. The fact that Lima was murdered by the Mafia and may have been associated with it himself hardly changes his status as a political boss.)--orlady 00:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining your view. I disagree with your view that the phenomenon of political bosses is unique to the United States (the fact that the article was US-centric does not mean that the topic is inherently US-centric). Post-war Italy is often cited as a place where the phenomenon has been widespread. For example, see Political Patronage, Bureaucracy and Corruption in Postwar Italy (PDF). Salvatore Lima may or may not deserve the label "political boss" (the article about him certainly suggests to me that he does), but "Mafia associate" and "political boss" are not mutually exclusive conditions.--orlady 20:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unspecified source for Image:Aglieri_arrest.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Aglieri_arrest.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self-no-disclaimers}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 03:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Iamunknown 03:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

You still need to replace {{PD-Italy}} with {{fairusein|Pietro Aglieri}} and add a fair use rationale --Iamunknown 16:33, 1 March 2007 (UTC)