User talk:MadMax

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
Please leave a new message.

Archives:

Contents

[edit] More

Okay, so you now have user:MadMax/Shelton Brothers Gang, user:MadMax/Unione Siciliane, user:MadMax/White Hand Gang, and user:MadMax/Labor slugger war. Tell me which ones are most urgent and those will of course be the next ones I do. DS 00:51, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Bleh. Staying at my parents' place over the holidays, access to WP severely reduced. You might want to ask another admin to help you finish the deNashing, unless you can wait 'till... hm. January should be feasible. 'kay? DS 03:13, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Sure, that would be fine. MadMax 03:48, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of Speedy Deletion template

Please do not remove speedy deletion tags from articles. If you do not believe the article deserves to be deleted, then please do the following:

  1. Place {{hangon}} on the page. Please do not remove any existing speedy deletion tag(s).
  2. Make your case on the article's talk page.

Administrators will look at your reasoning before deciding what to do with the article. Thank you.

Whether you're notified or not, speedy deletion templates should not be removed until an admin has reviewed them. Hatch68 06:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I was referring to the Brian Charrington article. Yes, you did remove the db template without seeking my approval or letting an admin review it. I'll assume good faith this time, but it clearly states in the template itself that the speedy template should not be removed. The hangon tag should have been placed just below the db template. You could have been flagged for vandalism for removing the speedy. Hatch68 06:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another handful

Here are five: user:MadMax/Egan's Rats, user:MadMax/Frank McErlane, user:MadMax/Ferdinand Boccia, user:MadMax/Frank J. Wilson, and user:MadMax/Raymond L.S. Patriarca. Enjoy. DS 15:08, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

  • user:MadMax/James T. Licavoli, user:MadMax/Jim O'Leary, user:MadMax/Rocco Valenti, user:MadMax/Frank Wortman, and user:MadMax/Messina Brothers. Have at. DS 14:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unspecified source for Image:RFCurrent.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:RFCurrent.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 18:30, 6 January 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. MECU≈talk 18:30, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

You always need to specify the source of an image. Putting that it was from that encyclopedia book is a source, though try to be as specific as possible such as a page number and how it got to digital format. Or a URL if you got it online. But always provide the source, always always always! (Did I stress that enough? =) --MECU≈talk 19:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I appreciate the help, thanks! MadMax 19:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment scale

I Think it is brilliant, well done. I tried and failed myself.--Lucy-marie 23:15, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Here was my attempt Template:Uk-crime --Lucy-marie 15:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it certainly seems more then alright to me (and likely better suited given the smaller size of the British crime project). Also did you have a particuar preferance in regards to assessing related articles or would they follow along the lines of the Australian project ? I would assume a seperate section the project on assessing articles should be compiled. I certainly appreciate the complimets by the way. :) MadMax 16:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes i agree a seperat section should be compiled as some articles are allready at good article status such as the Amanda Dowler article. and should have the apropriate section such as Stub B GA etc. I am not sure what the australian assessment scale is but i will look into it. I would also like to thank you for the hard work you are putting in and if you would like me to colaborate with you on certian articles to improve them as you work on them drop me a note. ps do you have a link to the australian criteria. i think the size of the class need shrinking but i am at a loss on how to achieve this.--Lucy-marie 16:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I've made an attempt at trying to compile British crime-related articles including high quality (B, GA, FA, etc.) as well as those with expasion requests and others listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject British crime/Expand Articles although there doesn't seem to be an existing sub category so I've had to do it by hand (an explaination for the 20 or so already listed). I haven't been able to find one yet, however it's hard to believe that any British crime related artile hasn't been featured or even marked as a high quality article.
Once again, thanks for the kind words. :) I would certainly be more then happy to help out with any future articles. You wouldn't happen to have any additional information on Francis Roy Adkins or any of the Noonans, McKenzies or Fergsons crime families ? I haven't been able to find anything on them either on Google or through from news archives (foreign newspapers being very limited). Also, here is a link to the assessment section for the WikiProject Australian crime. I can start a basic summery for an assessment section as soon as I can. MadMax 17:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
It looks good you are more wikisavvy than I am.--Lucy-marie 15:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, most of the coding was already done on other projects although I'd like to think it's fairly decent for a first attempt. :) If there's anything else, please feel free to let me know. By the way, there is a proposal for a WikiProject Crime at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Crime in case you'd like to give your opinion. In my opinion, this project might be helpful in coordinating the various crime and law enforcement related WikiProjects on Wikipedia. MadMax 16:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template

Good Work well done.Lucy-marie 19:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! MadMax 20:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Image:Andynicholls.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Andynicholls.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

  1. Go to the image description page and edit it to add {{Replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original Replaceable fair use template.
  2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or a similar) image under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that any fair use images which are replaceable by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. MECU≈talk 16:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Agueci Brothers

To Mad Max,

I'm contacting you because you were the last one to make changes to the Agueci brothers article and if you are the one who changed the article back to the garbage that it is now, congratulations, another Wikipedia article that is worthless, that has completely wrong info. It is because people can't control their egos and admit when they are wrong and if somebody else changes their work, points out mistakes or re-writes the article because it is worthless some people can't understand it is being done for the benifit of all who use the site. How can the site be of any use with wrong info? The majority of Organized Crime articles on Wikipedia have alot of mistakes, completely incorrect info or not enough info, giving the readers who are doing serious research bad information or not enough info to be useful. The Agueci brothers article is a disgrace! The "Agueci" article I wrote was complete and thorough, it contained all the info on the Agueci brothers one would expect while doing research. First off Alberto Agueci never planned the murder of Buffalo family boss, Stefano Magaddino, where did you get that bit of crap and he certainly did not attempt it, that is a fact, Albert Agueci didn't have the resources (soldiers) or balls enough himself to ever try and kill a powerful crime family boss and Commission member like Magaddino!!! What he did was threaten Magaddino with exposure of his part in the herion operation, Magaddino's authority and permission to deal the herion was needed being that the Agueci's and John Papalia were made Buffalo family members and the only reason the Agueci's were made was because of the money they were giving Magaddino from the herion deals, otherwise they were useless. After the Agueci's and Papalia were arrested and jailed in New York, Albert kept complaining about Magaddino not providing bail money and support to his wife and child while he was in jail. His associate, Joe Valachi who was in the New York Federal Detention lockup (on West St., New York City) as Agueci kept warning him not to open his mouth and threaten a mafia boss, Valachi knew Albert was weak and couldn't handle prison, but Albert kept it up and his layer, Harold Bordonaro, Buffalo family soldier and son of former Rocco Perri Lt., Buffalo family capo and Hamilton, Ontario Don, Calogero "Charlie" Bordonaro warned Stefano Magaddino about Albert's threats.
After Albert's wife sold their house and got his bail, Albert was released and was immediately contacted by Magaddino to come to a sit down, not Albert asking for the meeting as he smartened up and realized he was dead because he went to his close friend, Toronto hustler Roy Elkind (brother of Tornto mob driver, Marvin "The Weasel" Elkind) and told him he had a meeting On October 8, 1961, the day he left his wife in Toronto to meet Magaddino. Albert had come to see Roy and ask him if he would intervene and talk to the Buffalo family representatives in Toronto (most likely Buffalo family Acting Boss/Underboss, Freddie Randaccio or capo, Pasquale "Patsy" Natarelli) because Albert knew they believed he cut a deal with the feds, but Roy said no because the Bufalo people might think he's involved and wack him, so Albert left some money with Roy to give to his wife if any thing happended to him. Albert disappeared after his meeting, being tortured and killed in the Rochester . New York area. Some law enforcement believedd it was done by the Buffalo family's Utica crew run by Joseph Falcone, but Albert was tortured and killed by Freddie "Lupo" Randaccio and capo, Daniel "Boots" Sansanese (they were picked up bragginng about it on an illegal (that's why no prosecution) bug the F.B.I. had in Buffalo family soldiers, Fred Mogavero's gas station in Buffalo, Randaccio's base of operations and snitch paddy Calabrese told the feds it was Randaccio and Sansanese as well.
Then somebody states that Vito Agueci told Joe Valachi that Vito Genovese wanted him killed, that's totally incorrect. Joe Valachi was a heroin customer of the Agueci's and Papalia along with Vito Genovese's drug Lt's, Anthony "Tony Bender" Strollo, Vincent "Vinny" Mauro, Frankie "The Bug" Caruso, and Vincent "The Chin" Gigante. The Agueci's hid Valachi in Toronto, Ontario after he was indicted, but Valachi was caught. Vito Agueci blamed Valachi somewhat for his brother's death,he believed Valachi was the one who told Bordonaro about Albert's threats and Vito Agueci wanted to see Joe Valachi killed. Vito went to Vito Genovese (they were all in the Atlanta Penitentiary together) and told him that Valachi was making a deal with the feds, that's why Vito Genovese gave Valachi the speach about a barrel of apples and one being rotten and having to be removed or it will spoil the rest then gave valachi "Il Bacci del Morto", "The Kiss of Death" right on the lips, like a retard because now Valachi knew he was dead, that's when killed the inmate John Saup by mistake in 1962 (who he thaught was Lucchese family soldier, Genovese and Galante dealer, Joseph "Joe Beck" DiPalermo) then he did cut a deal!
Speaking of the Agueci-Paplia group which was an offshoot of the "French Connection" heroin network of Charlie "Lucky" Luciano's, who was supplied by the French-Corsican Mob, the Unione Corse, which I wrote about along with the Agueci-Papalia Group's main rivals in Ontario, the Zizzo-Indelicato Group in Toronto. The Zizzo-Indelicato Group was alot better connected than Agueci and Papalia and were the top herion suppliers in Southern, Ontario, that's why Agueci and Papalia sold most of their stuff in the United States. The Agueci-Papalia group sold their herion to the Buffalo family (capos, Sam Pieri and his brother John "Johnny Ray" Pieri), who in turn sold it to the Cleveland family (soldiers, John Tronolone and Curly Montana) and the Bufalino family in Scranton/Pittston, Pennsylvania (capo, Anthony "The Gov" Guarnieri). They also sold to New York, like I said, the Genovese family Strollo crew. I wrote about the competition the Agueci-Papalia group had and about Benedetto Zizzo's connections to his brother, Salemi, Sicily mafia boss, Salvatore Zizzo and Giuseppe Indelicato's connections to the Caruana-Cuntrera family in Siculian and Don Giuseppe Settecase of Agrigento, all important info concerning the Agueci-Papalia Group, like their plan to import 300 kilos just before they were arrested. This is all important info that a person doing research would want to know, not to mention just somebody who common sense would tell you would want to know what they could about the subject they are reading about, but of course everybody's ego won't allow that.
Next is this ridiculous statement that about Stefano Magaddino going to prison due to Joe Valachi's testimony, Magaddino never stepped foot into a prison cell after his 1921 arrest in New York for the Camillo Ciaizzo murder in New Jersey, the one involving the feud between the Bonanno-Magaddino family and the Buccellato family of Castellammare del Golfo, Sicily that kept going in New York. For your information, Valachi's testimony in the 1963 Senate hearings didn't directly result in even one arrests or convictions of any mafia figure, it basically didn't do anything except expose the mafia more than Apalachin did. This thing about Vito Agueci getting revenge on Stefano Magaddino and Joe Valachi for his brother's murder, you watch to many mob movies, Vito wouldn't dare try to screw Magaddino, his brother's torture and murder was a warning not only to everyone, but to Vito Agueci and John Papalia as well and after Vito was convicted he didn't have a snowflakes chance in hell of getting to Valachi, Agueci was only a low level soldier with no power or influence and could never get Valachi or anyone else for that matter. speaking of his brother's torture, they did not cut off skin, they tied him up with barbed wire, broke his teeth, jaw, ribs, cracked his head open, burnt his face off with a blow torch, strangled him then poured gasoline over him and set him on fire, the autopsy report stated animals ate 30 pounds of flesh off his thighs and calves, more info that gets distorted and screwed up along the way.
So once again I re-write a terrible article and turn it into a good article full of info, but it is deleted. If you didn't delete my work, I apologize, but like I said the records show you are the last one to make revisions to the article, if not you then it was Mr. so called "mafia expert", who I would put my knowledge of North American and Italian mafia crime groups up against any day!!! I am gonna continue to rewrite the lousy organized crime articles I find on Wikipedia becuase the people who use the site deserve the correct info. The Organized crime info or articles on Wikipedia are in constant debate on the forums like the Real Deal and especially the New York mafia history forum, check out all the debates we khave on that forum about Wikipedia. I have written and re-written many of the mafia articles, I just re-wrote the Frank Costello article, I even added some info to the Fiorello LaGuardia article as it didn't even mention his destruction of Costello's slot machines, something he was famous for. I've re-written the Genovese crime family article and may do the others since I have done all the boss succession charts on all the crime families because people don't get those wrong all the time. I will continue to correct all the bullshit info I come across, the readers deserve that, not to mention it just burns my ass to see incorrect info about the subjects, it's pathetic, unless someone knows what the hell they are talking about they shouldn't bother!!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Little Joe Shots (talk • contribs).
P.S. I'm so sick of hearing about siting souces, the references and sources at the end of most articles should be sufficient as 95% of all info written on the subjects is common knowledge that has been stated, quoted, written and referenced thousands of times over the years. Most people writing and reading about the organized crime subjects and people have heard and read the stated or quoted info many times before. If there is something by law enforcement, an author or writer that can be referenced or a source can be given, fine, but there are times that it is general info, commonly known in the organized crime genere and it isn't always needed. I understand sometimes it is, for example, stating someone is an allegeded criminal, if they are known to be a criminal and have had a number of articles, stories or even a book written about them I think it is safe to say they are criminals or ALLEGED CRIMINALS!!! If there is an article that can be used as a reference or source and when new information, not commonly or universally known comes to lite, then fine a source or reference is needed and should be stated or included, but not when something has been discussed, written about in articles, books and even had movies and documentaries done on the subject over and over again, it's safe to say in that instance people or readers will already know about the specific fact.
  • Little Joe Shots,
First, I would completely agree with you on the state of organized crime related articles (as I've brought up several times on various pages). However, while I did rewrite the introduction conserning its informal tone, I did not indend to revert the entire article. I've since restored it, however it did need considerable reformatting. You might want to use Wikipedia:Manual of Style in future editing.
As for providing references and citing sources, its standard Wikipedian policy to provide at least minimal references especially on biographical articles. Otherwise, editors unfamiliar with organized crime might mistake an article as a hoax (see Joseph Todaro, Sr.) or decide it may be not notable enough for its inclusion (as several of my articles have been in the past). MadMax 04:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] African-American organized crime

Your knowledge of African-American organized crime is lacking because you have not availed yourself of the book, 'KINGS': The True Story of Chicago's Policy Kings and Numbers Racketeers, an Informal History by Nathan Thompson, published by The Bronzeville Press @ POLICYKINGS.COM The history documented in this book is not available anywhere else. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.43.218.170 (talk • contribs).

  • If you have access to the book, then please feel free to use it as a reference for further contributions to the article. MadMax 07:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 26 Mafia Families

A clean-up and expansion of the 26 mafia families is something worth discussing.

26 Families

Bonanno crime family,
Colombo crime family,
Gambino crime family,
Genovese crime family and
Lucchese crime family
and the Morello crime family
  • Others
North East Pennsylvania - Bufalino crime family (also called the North East Pennsylvania crime family, Pittston crime family, Scranton crime family)

Problems - nothing I can see, like all the articles could use more sources for each claim

Cleveland, Ohio - Cleveland Mafia (also called the Cleveland crime family, Porello crime family, Lonardo crime family, Scalish crime family)

Problems - "Impact of the Cleveland Mafia" has no content, interchanges between "Cleveland Mafia" and "Cleveland crime family", not much about Danny Greene and his effect on the family, not much/nothing about the war involving Greene, John Nardi and other members/associates for control of the family, nothing about the International Longshoremen's Association's relationship with the family - Danny Greene and John Nardi again - Should it be Cleveland Mafia, doesn't sound right to me

Los Angeles, California - Los Angeles Mafia (also called the Los Angeles crime family, Dragna crime family, Milano crime family)

Problems - Name: Los Angeles Mafia doesn't sound right, very little information at all, more sources would be good

New Orleans, Louisiana - New Orleans crime family (also called the Matranga crime family, Corolla crime family, Marcello crime family)

Problems - "Impact of the New Orleans crime family" has no information, interchanges between Matranga crime family and New Orleans crime family, not much about relationship to other Southern families (Tampa, Dallas, Kansas City etc), generally doesn't read so well, long sections with zero internal links

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - Philadelphia crime family (also called the Bruno crime family, Scarfo crime family)

Problems - many sections with zero information or minimal information, really a poor quality article due to lack of maintenance and any body of information, what looks like vandalism at the end, example: Steven Lenehen in associates/members section is apparently a member of the Real Deal forum (called the Real Deal internet family), and an associate, wannabe, online poster - I don't even know who this guy is but this information seems like vandalism, these members lists should be kept to people who we have created pages for not just every member due to verification problems and general pointlessness.

I gotta go but there is much more to add. The rest of the families and categories related Alexbonaro 11:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm..I've previously done some editing on these articles in the past although I take another look and see what I can do. I'll bring this up on the WikiProject Organized crime as well. MadMax 18:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rocco Perri Biography

Hello Madmax. This is the second time I've had to put back the category of "Gangsters" at the bottom of the Rocco Perri page after you removed it twice. I've supplied Citations and links that state he was a Hamilton, Ontario "gangster"...please do not remove from the bottom of the Rocco Perri page. Thanks. Nhl4hamilton 10:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Nhl4hamilton,
The article should be under the correct category, Category:Canadian mobsters, as opposed to the deprecated Category:Gangsters. Similarly, other criminals such as mobsters, drug lords and other criminals should not be listed in the category when there is a more specific category available. MadMax 16:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok Thanks for your explanation that makes alot of sense. I notice that when you make your edits you're not using the "Edit summary" box. It would take alot of the guess work out for other people if you explain why your edits were made. Keep up the great work.Nhl4hamilton 08:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Creating New Articles

Hi pal, you created two articles - The Three Fenians and the Prices sisters - however there are already article on these - can you check in future before creating articles that are already created. Good luck! --Vintagekits 17:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] In Terms of My Articles and References

Max,

Gimme a break, this is exactly what I was talking about and if you have the book. "The Enforcer" by Humphreys you would have known or noticed I should have made the reference from page 104-108, not just 106, my mistake. As you will notice the pages ,especially 105 and 106 talks about where Johnny Papalia and Aguecci's operation gets their "primo" heroin from, which is the "French Connection" dealers of the Corsican Mob and how the herion started off in Asia and the Middle East as opium, then Johnny's "primo powder" starts off in Turkey. it goes on to talk about Morphine base in Marseilles and the laboratories, it's names Corsican chemists and dealers with names like Dominique Albertini and goes on to discuss the Corsican Mob-Sicilian Mafia connection. Then it talks about Antoine Cordoliani and Joseph Cesari, former partners (actually Lt.s, they were his underlings) to former Corsican underworld Boss, Francois Spirito and his 1930's heroin network. If you haven't noticed those names are Italian. Then Humphreys goes on to talk about the Palermo meeting at the Hotel des Palmes in 1957 which may not have mentioned the exact mafia bosses present but, I did, and why, because it's common knowledge to most Mob watchers, crime writers and people who have research the mafia who was there to begin with being that the 1957 Palermo meeting was a very important event in mafia history and second, the people who read these articles have some faith that the writers know what they are talking about, especially if their resources are generally quoting what they are discussing. So the only mistake I made was not making my reference from page 104. Next time have the balls to call me a liar instead of coming across with that weak, "We have faith in the people who contribute" bullshit or what ever it is you said. This is exactly why I don't bother anymore and to be honest with you I don't care if my article stays on Wikipedia anymore or if I'm ever allowed to write on Wikipedia again because when there is bickering over unnecessary garbage it's a waste of time, also like I stated before when egos about who wrote what or who's the better writer are involved the only people that suffer are the those who wish to have correct, up to date information from their research and don't get it. Do you know how many mafia and organized crime articles I have read of the Wikipedia site that are completely incorrect and don't have any references what so ever, they actually read like a fiction article to those who know better. The incorrect info on Wikipedia's organized crime and mafia section happens to be one of the most talked about subjects on 2 forums I'm involved in and these forums have crime writers Lee Lamothe (Adrian Humphrey's writing partner) who is one of the foremost Canadian mafia writers, Scott Deitche who has a Tampa mafia website and wrote "Cigar City Mafia", Scott Burnstein who wrote "Motor City Mafia", a bunch of other authors and several aspiring authors who are presently working on books including myself.

Do you actually think I'm stupid, it seems that you and so called Mr. "Mafia Expert" chose and pick who you want to allow to write on the Wikipedia site unmolested and those who you deem unworthy to write without references are constantly bothered. I'm sorry to tell you if you don't, but I'm sure you do, that 95% of all mafia and organized crime articles I've and other Mob watchers have read on Wikepedia have some kinda of incorrect information or some information that is made up about a person, place or event that deals with the mafia and organized crime. Go on the "New York Mafia History" forum website, you don't have to be a member and just look at the posts regarding Wikipedia just on the first page and none of them are articles I 've written. Post a question concerning what people think about Wikipedia's mafia and organized crime section and ask the authors and Mob watchers to answer and see what they tell you, actually the last person that complained about the New Jersey DeCavalcante crime family article and some of it's so called facts that had no references (which I never wrote, but did correct the Boss succession), you know the moderator of the forum said he had enough of the Wikipedia posts as they were starting to clutter the forum. So, I have tried to add to your site by correcting many of the articles and by writing my own and all I get is a bunch of bullshit when there are a ton of pathetic articles that have never been left with messages about "some of the information in this article has not been verified" and "this article may require clean up to meet WIKIPEDIA STANDARDS", are you "_ _ _ _ ing" kidding me, what standards, the standards you guys chose for certain writers. Well I'll tell you what, take the articles written by me, take them off the site because I don't give a shit, I don't lose out on anything when I already know every bit of information you have in your organized crime section or should I say the correct information and you can do what ever you want with them and I'm sure you know what I would want you to do with them!!!! I've been asked by 2 different Mob websites to write articles for them, I was given my own page by a total stranger on the "American organized crime website because he realized i could help him correct his mistakes and add to the site so that people will appreciate correct info, unlike the Wikipedia site. Oh ya, tell Mr. "Mafia Expert" that just for his information I've found my very first Joseph Todaro Sr. article being used by other sites without my name on it and I don't give a shit and why, "BECAUSE IT"S COMMON AND PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE", not something I made up!!!!


Just to be fair, I haven't really read more than 10-15 other articles on Wikipedia outside of the O.C. section so I don't know if there are hundreds or thousands more incorrect articles or what!!! You can feel relieved and be sure that I will never contribute to the Wikipedia site again, it's all yours and the mafia expert's, which means you should correct the tons of articles in the organized crime section so i would hop to it you have a large and lengthy job ahead of you!!!!!

  • LittleJoeShots,
I apologise if I've offended you, however all MafiaExpert did was point out an error for a reference you provided. Neither he or myself ever accused you of purposly providing a false reference. As I don't have access to the book myself, I'm in no position to state weither your claim was correct. MafiaExpert did have a copy however and pointed out that he was unable to find it on the page specified as well as in the index. He mentioned this error on the talk page and all I did was point it out to you under the assumption either you or MafiaExpert had made an error.
I can understand your frustration regarding providing references, especially on lists such as List of Italian-American mobsters, List of Irish-American mobsters, List of Jewish-American mobsters, etc. However, without providing at least some proof of a mobsters existance, hoax articles such as Vincent Galante can be created and other less known mobsters such as Settimo Accardi or Peter Morello can be nominated for deletion. Also many articles on organized crime figures, even those containing information considered public knowledge, can leave Wikipedia open to lawsuits by the individual or family members if interpreted as a libelous or slanderous attack.
There are however a great number of people who regularly contribute to organized crime related subjects (see the unofficial WikiProject Organized crime). I'm sorry if you feel you can no longer edit on Wikipedia, as I've found a number of your articles to be well written and informative, however that of course is your decision and I am sorry to see you go. MadMax 20:56, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

MadMax, don't worry. I also got one of this guys long rambling messages, full of mistakes and abuse. I have removed it. I sincerely hope this guy stops contributing to Wikipedia. If you do not want to commit to the few rules there are, go do something else. He has a point when saying there is a lot of wrong information, but replacing it with other wrong information does not really help. I do not work on the American Cosa Nostra (I concentrate on the Sicilian one), but it seems to me that a lot needs to be done. It is more geared to quantity than quality. However, you don't this guy to mess things up even more. Keep up the good work, and don't be bothered by his so-called "expertise". - Mafia Expert 11:05, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Fortunatly there are a lot of talented and knowedgable editors who contribute to American organized crime. However, I would feel terrible if anything I had said had been responsible for any editor to leave Wikipedia. We were all new once of course and, a look at any of my early articles, anyone can see my attrocius attempt at MLA referencing so its perfectly understandible if it takes time for newer users to get used to basic formatting, providing references, etc.
I certainly apologise if I involved you in any of this and, at least in my opinion, I've always thought your contributions to be presented by someone highly knowledgable in the area and well deserving of your User name. By the way, I also appreciate your comments as I was adittedly troubled by his message. MadMax 23:36, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Project, please help

Hello! Recently I've started a project WP:CRIMINAL that aims to improve articles relating to criminals, including serial killers and others, particularly their biographies. If you are interested please join this project and help! Thank you! Wooyi 04:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm flattered you considered me. I'd be happy to help. By the way, I'm not sure if you're aware, however a WikiProject Crime has also been proposed as well. I've asked around on various crime related projects in regards to a Portal:Crime which has gained some interest. MadMax 04:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up. I think the WikiProject on Crime can now just go into the Crimal Wikiproject. Remember 21:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for doing much stuff on WikiProject Criminal Biography. Your help is extremely valuable, since it is my first time to start a project like this. Today I've seen many new members joining, which is a hopeful sign. Cheers! Wooyi 22:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. :) I've had some experience with Wikipedia:WikiProject British crime (including some minor templates currently in use) as well other projects I've proposed in the past. If there's anything in particular you need, please feel free to ask. MadMax 22:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flagcruft

Before you add too many flag icons to articles, you might want to take a read over WP:FLAGCRUFT. Whilst it's not policy, flags rarely add anything of value to an article and come with more than a few drawbacks. -- Longhair\talk 08:29, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I assumed they were generally used from what I've seen regarding other biographies. MadMax 08:31, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Generally used, or overused. You be the judge :) -- Longhair\talk 08:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for informing me, I will be helping alot, as soon as i have sorted out real life (work) issues

Regards,

Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 19:03, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crime Project

Thank you! There was the charge/charge(s) confusion in the infobox and I just fixed it to make the charges of criminals appear. Today I added infobox to two italian-american mobsters, two kids who murdered their parents, and one corrupt congressman, never thought before that those diverse interesting individuals would belong to a common place, =). Cheers! Wooyi 23:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

And also, the opentask box looks fine for now, I'll edit it if anything changes. Wooyi 23:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad to have been some help, thanks! MadMax 14:24, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gwen Graham and Cathy Woods

I created an article for the lesbian murder duo Gwen Graham and Cathy Woods, very fascinating serial killers. However, the internet sources for these two are scant. I've seen them in video when I was in criminal law class, and I saw it said they were in prison, but none of the website says anything about their arrest or sentencing. Do you have any books/sources that have them on it? Wooyi 21:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I can check the local library, although I've found nothing on via the internet (including book and news archive searches). I'll see what I can come up with. Great job by the way! MadMax 02:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry man, I found a better written article Gwendolyn Graham already existing in wikipedia, so I integrated the content of my article to that one and redirected it. Thanks. Wooyi 03:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Not a problem. I've run into that with a few of my Irish Republican Army articles. MadMax 03:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] I Know When I Have Made A Mistake

Max,

Let me start by apologizing for my abuse when responding to your message, I jumped the gun in thinking that you were basically attacking my work, not pointing out my mistakes. What also added to my anger was the fact that that the so called "Mafia Expert" has repeatedly erased facts I have contributed to the Sicilian mafia articles and at one point has even placed a block or restraint on me in regards to editing his Sicilian mafia articles which I felt lacked important facts. Whether it was the timing or whatever I felt that you along with the "Expert" were now teaming with one another in regards to my work or articles. Since the first time I have written an article or added to previous organized crime articles the "Mafia Expert" has taken it upon himself to be overbearing and flat out rude at times when in the beginning he should have known I was knew to the Wikipedia site and needed to be instructed on the format and standards of Wikipedia. The man has come off as arrogant and unwilling to have any constructive criticism thrown his way no matter what the intentions. I've only wanted to add to the site as I have been an amateur organized crime historian and Mob watcher (mainly the mafia) for roughly 15 years. I know the first hand the amount of incorrect and out of date information there is on underworld members, groups and their history in books, articles and online so I only wanted to contribute what I knew to be fact. I understand fully the importance of references and why a basic format is to be followed, but when I feel attacked continuously over small insignificant matters (I don't mean the references or by you as you have only contacted me once) over and over again, not to mention the obvious attempt by "Mr. Expert" to find any little matter he can exploit or use as an excuse to undermine my credibility and make me look foolish. Every article I have written or have made corrections too have contained correct information, facts and I realize they need to be backed up when it is little known or new information, but universally or common information shouldn't need it!! I have seen articles that a very long and have alot of info, but when i try to give the readers all the most important information and facts on a subject the "Expert" says I'm making it a contest to see who has the most organized crime knowledge when in fact all I want is to make the article the best research material it can be. Mr. "Expert" either feels threatened by the fact that someone else has more knowledge than him and is able to contribute a little more to some of the areas he has over looked or missed and seems to feel that only the articles he writes or contributes too deserve recognition or attention from Wikipedia readers. It's pathetic that the so called "Mafia Expert" feels he needs too attack someones work instead of realizing that if we all put aside our egos and helped eachother when there is a mistake, incorrect info or format and standards need to be looked at the Wikipedia site would be alot better off and it's readers would benefit instead of loosing the chance to read the best articles and have the best research material on the web!

This guy has literally been on my case since the start and I have been defended many times by other contributors such as Alexbonaro, this bullshit started with the Joseph Todaro Sr. page and his and Zoe's garbage that I was attacking Todaro personally when in fact I made the guy out to be a saint, never mentioning his alleged involvement in murder and narcotics distribution and I practically advertised for his pizzeria in the first paragraph. The last straw for me was the when the "Expert" had the balls to try and embarrass or undermine me by trying to point out the alleged mistake I made with the name of Giuseppe Settecase/Settecasi and the Unione Corse. He deliberately tried to make me look foolish in his message when in fact he was the one who was mistaken and incorrect being that I pointed out that the Italian law enforcement agencies and media have spelled names of mafiosi differently at times in regards to the area of Italy being dealt with (usually mainland Italy or Sicily), which dialect is being used, not to mention the different ways that many last names are spelled in Italy due to dialect, origin of the family and where they may be based at present. Examples: Don Giuseppe Settecase/Settecasi, Don Luciano Leggio/Liggio, Don Stefano Bontate/Bontade, the Corleonesi/Corleonese Clan, Don Pasquale Ania/Enia, the Catanesi/Catanese Clan and even areas in Italy such as Apulia/Puglie/Puglia and Valle d'Aosta/Vallee d'Aoste. Not that it's the same thing. but even here in North America we all make mistakes as the media and law enforcement use too refer to American mafiosi Settimo "Big Sam" Accardi as Accardo at times, as well as the Calabrian Archino crime family of Siderno who have crews in Toronto, Canada (The Siderno Group), Albany, Queens and Long Island, New York are referred to as Archina at times. As well as his trying to tell me there was no such thing as the Unione Corse, well I took care of that by writing out the basic history of the organization along with it's top bosses and mentioned an articles that had been written in late 2006 when one of the last original Unione Bosses, Jean Colonna died in a car crash. This is all unnecessary and can be confusing and I know this since I am Italian and have been to Italy many times, but attacked me in a rude and spiteful manner as he has done in the past and believe me when I say I have never taken shit from anyone in my life. The "Expert" worries about his own ego over the fact that people should have proper research material with correct and up to date information and I have seen articles on Wikipedia that have so much incorrect info that the whole article becomes invalid.

I'm am an aspiring screenwriter who is in the process of applying to the New York Film Academy and I'm thinking of writing a "Mafia Encyclopedia" being that the ones written by Sifakis and Nash were lacking so much and I have 15 years of research and records at my disposal along with the ability to travel if necessary to retrieve any other information. I'm also currently involved with several organized crime forums and have never had any problems like I have experienced with Wikipedia. I was previously involved in organized crime activity through my father and his connections to the Buffalo crime family, my paternal godfather was Frank Balistrieri, a made member of the crime family and my fathers former boss in the 1970's and 80's (bookmaking). I was personally involved with a Canadian LCN crew for 7 years in Southern Ontario and after a serious entanglement with the DEA, American and Canadian customs I changed my life and it's direction over the last 4 years. I'm not a street thug as you can see I am able to hold a civilized conversation, am well spoken and educated, but I still have and always will have a bit of the streets in me. So let me apologize once again for my rude behavior towards you being that it should have never been directed your way in the first place.

I have no intention of contributing to the Wikipedia site and will only use it for research as I did today which reminds me I was looking for information on Rocco Racco (former Black Hand mafia leader in Pennsylvania) in regards to when he was hung and I noticed the article refers to him as a Sicilian mafiosi when in fact he was a Calabrian mafiosi. There was an online article I read years ago (at least 10) that dealt directly with the Black Hand in Pennsylvania and Rocco Racco, it was actually the first one to publish his photo online, but I can't seem to find it as it has most likely been removed. This article had his date of birth and the specific area of Reggio Calabria he was from and if the article was wrong it goes to show that there is alot of wrong info out there when it comes to the history of organized crime and it's most famous members. Also I looked over the Settimo "Big Sam" Accardi article and it's basically correct except it says that Accardi created his own criminal organization when it would be better if it stated he ran his own crew being that he never achieved a higher rank that that of a soldier, buthe was a very powerful, influential and very well connected LCN member. Sam Accardi was the cousin of New Jersey Boss, Simone "Sam the Plumber" DeCavalcante, was a member of the Luciano/Genovese crime family and in the crew of Genovese crime family capo and Newark, New Jersey Boss, Ruggero "Ritchie the Boot" Boiardo. I just figured I would point out that information on Racco and Accardi since the Wikipedia readers deserve the proper information. Once again let me apologize to you Max, please don't ever think that that arrogant piece of shit, the so called "Mafia Expert" will ever get an apology from me, but I knew you deserved one being that when I calmed down and used my head I realized your intentions were not out of spite, malicious or even rude as the "Experts" intentions have been from the start. I made a mistake in regards to you and sincerely hope you can except my apology. Keep up the good work on Wikipedia as I mentioned before I have been researching organized crime for 15 years and the Wikipedia site could be one of the best!

Thank You For Your Time,

                Little Joe Shots

[edit] Martha Stewart

As I posted on the project page, the mugshot Image:Marthastewart.jpg I put on infobox of Martha Stewart was accused as hoax and removed. I don't think it is a hoax, though. The guy who removed the mug shot also stated he wants to get rid of the box altogether, in the edit summary. Wooyi 22:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Ahh, hoax blog. Sorry about not noticing that. But since the prestigious libertarian institution Ludwig von Mises Institute used that as a reference, I guess this hoax has some notibility lol. I'm not sure if we should try to delete it or otherwise though. You have any suggestions? And by the way, thanks for your great work and extensive edit to Gwendolyn Graham, it's fascinating! Wooyi 22:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Thanks, it was the only resourse I could find however as only New England-based newspapers were available. In addition, Wood's lawyer claimed Graham had left her for another woman and would file an appeal. Unfortunatly, as I couldn't find a reference on weither an appeal was followed up on, I decided against adding it. As for the Martha Stewart mugshot, I'm sure it would be of geat use to Uncyclopedia. MadMax 04:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] british crinme project

You have done a hell of a lot for this project and i would like to thank you for it. I think the next big task we should undertake is completeing the new section on merging articles,and create the current red linked articles then move on to list morearticles to create. Thanks a million for all of your hard work.--Lucy-marie 16:33, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. :) I'm sorry I haven't been more active, however with school starting up I haven't had as much time as I'd like. I'll get right on tracking down some more requested articles. MadMax 16:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yiddish Black Hand

Hi. I'm just beginning to read about Jewish mobsters and am confused by the phrase "Vitoffsky focused on taking commissions between rival dealers and manufacturers of seltzer and soda" in your Yiddish Black Hand article. It's the part saying "taking commissions between" that confuses me, because you've applied that to only what Vitoffsky was doing. So, I'm wondering if it needs more info, or could be clarified by re-wording.
If extorting "commissions" in the soda business was different from what Levinsky and Toplinsky were doing in other lines of business, that could use explanation. Or, if they were all running the same racket in different industries, then perhaps the phrase could be simplified to: "Vitoffsky focused on rival dealers and manufacturers of seltzer and soda", without damaging the meaning. Your thoughts?
Thanks. --Rich Janis 09:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

By "taking commission", I had meant to imply Vitoffsky handled contracts involving rivals dealers and manufacturers such as "labor slugging". I've reworded the atricle, however please feel free to change it if you feel it is still confusing. Also, in case you're not aware, the articles Jewish-American organized crime and List of Jewish-American mobsters might also be helful if your interested in the subject. Thanks for your help. MadMax 17:05, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1980 in the Irish Republican Army etc

I've been having a think about these, and I'm not sure a dedicated IRA timeline is the way to go, especially with regard to the period of The Troubles. Events from that period are better viewed in the context of everything else that was happening at the time, so should really include British, Loyalist and Republican activities. For example the IRA's Kingsmill massacre mentioned in isolation looks like an incredibly shocking sectarian act, and needs to be offset by mention of the Loyalist Reavey and O'Dowd killings which happened the day before. Hope that helps. Thanks. One Night In Hackney 07:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The War That Ended the World...

I see that you created this page from some information added to Jordan Harris by User:Europapa. Do you actually know anything about this, or did you just create the page to keep the info in it off of the Jordan Harris page? I'm asking because I have a feeling this doesn't exist at all. Pinball22 14:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I originally moved it off the Jordan Harris page because I thought the information belonged in a seperate article. I would tend to agree with you as there's no mention of it or the actors on IMDB.com and was unable to find any information on it elsewhere. If it does exist, I doubt it seems notable enough to warrant an article. MadMax 15:22, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Since you agree, I've gone ahead and listed it at AfD. Pinball22 18:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ricky Ross (drug trafficker)

I changed the headline to "Pop culture references" since alot of other articles on here has that paragraph. Just wanted to let you know. wikisoul 13:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Tyrell (drug trafficker)

If you desire to keep the Michael Tyrell (drug trafficker) article, you may wish to put the word "Keep" at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Tyrell (drug trafficker). -- Jreferee 06:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger

I would asume that the name of the article would go under the name of te victim, unless there is a generic nme such as the Soham murders.--Lucy-marie 09:35, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unspecified source for Image:JLYoung.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:JLYoung.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self-no-disclaimers}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 19:41, 24 March 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. MECU≈talk 19:41, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Westie otheruses

You moved 'Westie' to 'Westie (disambiguation)', but you didn't redirect 'Westie' to 'The Westies'. Hence my latest otheruses edit to 'The Westies', you can revert it if want Westie to redirect to the criminal gang page rather than the dab one. Grumpyyoungman01 05:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../m/a/d/User_talk%7EMadMax_b7a8.html"