User talk:Macrakis

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[edit] Oguz1

Thanks, I found your reasoning for the NY Times article better than mine. Khoikhoi 03:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Raki

You erased my sourced contrib saying source was not good. The source is good and verifiable. (unsigned comment by User:Oguz1)

[edit] NO

Doner kebab is not shawarma. Do not blaspheme. (unsigned comment by 144.32.128.155 at 2007-01-31T02:00:48)

[edit] Your message

Thanks for letting me know. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:07, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Didn't check that article quite as carefully as I should have. Mazal Tov on picking it up. Mathmo Talk 15:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism reversion

Macrakis said: Thanks for removing the vandalism on the Myra page. You apparently didn't notice, though, that the vandalism had replaced good content. It's often a good idea to revert to the previous version rather than remove the vandalism directly because vandals often do more than one piece of damage to a page.

The trouble with the rollback feature is indeed that it only rolls back one contributor's bad contributions, and doesn't go back to the right one. I personally am rather fond of the matter's handling here, as it just about sums up all the problems we seem to have with multiple vandalistic contributors.

Thank you very much for notifying me, and thank you for bringing the situation back to normal. Bobo. 18:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cretan Turks

Hi, Miskin asked me to comment on the Cretan Turks article. I'm not sure I've yet quite clearly understood what the issues are. I made a comment and a quick stab at something provisional in the article, but it's probably far from ideal. You were basically defending the same version of the intro also preferred by Miskin, right? Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes but he would never fall as low as to offer me support, even when we hold the same view. Just kidding, I guess. Look Macrakis about the pasta thing, I almost copied this from the source and I can give you the full citation if you want. What you described me is essentially OR, I don't know why you weren't able to verify it in other sources. Miskin 15:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I said I was largely kidding about that, though you did imply at some point that both parties have acted unwisely. About the article, we're hitting on a brick wall. I think Cretanforever has made it clear that he doesn't want to follow wp:policy procedures. He hardly responds to our querries, and when he does, he does it in riddles. The most ironic and comical thing though is that his version is actually on. POV-fork, POV, unsourced, non-consensus, badly written - you name it - yet it still retains a default status. I'm really curious to see how far this travesty will get - just for cultural reasons. Miskin 22:00, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

ΥΣ: Σοῦ ζητῶ συγγνώμη γιά ὄσες φορές ἤμουν ἀγενής μαζί σοῦ Μακράκη. Miskin 21:46, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stubs

Dear Macrakis, Thanks for your good intent for these edits. These articles are far-away than finished-developed. In fact;- as you know- these(baklava&börek/burek) are categories of foods; ie. there are many kind of baklava and börek/burek, so I prefer to add this stub template to these articles to categorize them in Turkey project stubs to give a guidance to the further contributors.If I would have time also I will try to add some info to them. Thanks and regards. MustTC 18:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Foudel

Macrakis I'm most certainly not a new user of Wikipedia -- I've been posting anonymously here for many years -- I've helped write many articles on the dietary practices of ethnic cultures. I decided recently to post as foudel, and that's how I will post from now on. I'm very busy currently and have little time to spend on Wikipedia, but I'm notified when there are changes to my edits and I've noticed that you have now removed two links which I placed in 2004. The Greek recipes link was actually the first ever external link on the Greek cuisine page, and the link you removed on the Mediterranean diet page has similarly been there since 2004. (unsigned comment of 2007-02-14T22:27:23 by User:Foudel)

These are quality links to a free site that has been praised by a Tufts University, the Arizona Heart Institute and many other respected organizations.(unsigned comment of 2007-02-14T22:28:32 by User:Foudel)

[edit] Relevant links

Macrakis, you say:

"When an encyclopedia reader (as opposed to a cookbook reader) reads about Moussaka, he or she would like to know about its history, about its ingredients, perhaps even about its nutritional attributes, but doesn't expect to be directed to sites with their own (perhaps very tasty and very healthy) interpretations."

It's obvious you haven't spent more than a few seconds on MediterrAsian.com because you say it doesn't talk about the history and ingredients used in traditional ethnic cooking. You are very wrong. Please look at this section of the site please: http://www.mediterrasian.com/cuisine_of_month.htm

We've spent thousands of hours developing our site, and give away all the information for free (the site is also advertisement free). Every link to our site through Wikipedia is on a page I've personally helped write, and then you come along and decide after 3 years of them being there that they are link spam. Well they are not and never will be spam -- they are relevant and helpful links.

Please read some of the feedback we've received about our site from people -- including wikipedia users here: http://www.mediterrasian.com/feedback2.htm, and from Tufts University and the media here: http://www.mediterrasian.com/feedback.htm. We also have the backing of Oldways Preservation and Exchange Trust (the organization, who along with Harvard School of Public Health and the World Health Organization, created the Mediterranean and Asian Diet Pyramids). They said we were doing a "Great Job" and have given us permission to use the Pyramids on our site and in our book.

By the way, I thought you removed the hummus recipe link because below your edit description Abu ali talks about not using tinned chickpeas, and I thought that was why you removed the link. (unsigned comment of 2007-02-15T02:55:53 by User:Foudel)


Thanks for your comments Macrakis. The guidelines also say: “If the link is to a relevant and informative site that should otherwise be included, please consider mentioning it on the talk page and let neutral and independent Wikipedia editors decide whether to add it.”

So I’m going to mention adding a link to the authentic hummus recipe on our site (which has been very popular with Wikipedia users) on the hummus talk page, and I do hope you’ll support its inclusion. Foudel 17:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hummus

You say hummus is unknown in Greece. This is incorrect. You may wish to look at these pages: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Hummus_(Greek) http://greekfood.about.com/od/appetizerssalads/r/hummustahini.htm http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE6DC1338F935A35757C0A960948260

The description we use for hummus is correct, and it also includes other suggestions for how it can be used including as a substitute for butter. This is a relevant and nutritionally sound use for hummus, which is why it is mentioned.

You also say that “…you presumably choose and adapt your recipes to suit your nutritional goals.” This is also incorrect -- the recipes are based directly on traditional dishes, and are not changed to suit any nutritional goals (quite simply because they’re already naturally nutritious). Foudel 19:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


You say that the Greek cuisine section of about.com isn’t a good source on Greek cuisine. Well here’s the bio of the woman who runs it:

“Nancy is an American whose more than 30 years of living in Greece have provided her with an intimate experience of Greek food and Greek cooking on a daily basis. She is an avid collector of recipes, techniques, and cookbooks … Her love of cooking and eating led her to the kitchens and cookbooks of great Greek cooks and chefs throughout the country. She has delved into all varieties of regional specialties, from the Italian-influenced cuisine of Corfu to the Turkish-influenced cuisine of Thrace and Evros, to the cuisine of Crete, considered by many to be one of the healthiest in the world.”

Sounds like a good source on Greek cuisine to me. And remember, we don’t say that hummus originated in Greece, only that it is popular in Greece (and has been for many generations).

Also, here is the definition of gyros from the American Heritage dictionary:

NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. gy·ros A sandwich made usually of sliced roasted lamb, onion, and tomato on pita bread. ETYMOLOGY: From Modern Greek guros, a turning, from Greek gros, circle (from the turning of the meat on a spit ).

So gyros are typically served with pita bread and vegetables as a sandwich -- and not simply as pieces of roasted meat as you contend.

Gyros are commonly called “kebabs” in England, Australia and New Zealand, and gyros/kebabs filled with falafel (instead of meat) and vegetables are common. If you google "falafel kebab" you will find there are currently over 1500 matches.

Foudel 23:07, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Old Persian

The word I had in mind was paradise, but apparently it doesn't come from 'Old Persian' either but from Avestan. Magos as far as I know has an PIE root *magh. I wasn't aware about the origin of those words you mentioned to be, but if what you say is true, then they most likely do not come from Old Persian like the article claims, but from some other, later Aryan language (maybe not even Persian). Chances are that Greek was added at random in that list of languages supposedly "extremely influenced by Old Persian" by Iranian nationalists. In any case I think you would agree that such a claim needs a citation. Miskin 14:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I read your message in a rush and I misunderstood its purpose. Miskin 16:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Dead note" annotation

If you look at what I did, you will see that those notes which were marked "dead" did not have a corresponding reference in the text: rather than delete them completely I left them in the "references" section. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 17:47, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About the SUN study article

Thank you for your message. I regret the misunderstanding. I must recognize I would not had been so polite. Jrpvaldi told me he had changed his name after writting an article about Gotzone Mora, a spanish politician, and he had noticed that it would be easy to everybody to know that he was the author. Best,--Arturico 02:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] For the love of Ada?

That wasn't vandalism. Everything presented was fact. :(

[edit] This was NOT spam

Why on earth do you think adding a site with original and relevant content is spam? My [Hebrew hummus blog http://humus101.com] is super popular and got covered by ALL local media and backlinked by 100s of blogs. just Google it and you'll see. It also got linked by the Hebrew Wiki here: http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%97%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A1 So why shouldn't my new English version appear here? (unsigned comment by User:80.178.56.8 2007-03-14T14:13:51)

Please read the WP:External links policy, which explicitly excludes "Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority." A "recognized authority" would be a published food historian, etc. The blog is anonymous, so we have to assume it is not written by a "recognized authority". It appears that the person adding the links is the same as the owner of the site, which brings up WP:Conflict of interest. (you call it "my" blog, so I assume it is your own). --Macrakis 15:29, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Loutrochori

Γειά σου Macrakis. (ASCII Greek) Prota tha ithela na se Efharistiso gia tin politimi sinisfora sou sto Arthro kai gia tis diorthosis pou pragmatopiises episis (Kath´ oti den eimai kai toso... profi sta Agglika opos esi, pou einai veveos kai i mitriki sou glossa)!

Episis tha ithela na me sigxoresis gia ton akompso tropo pou ekana anastrofi tou arthrou se proigoumenes ekdosis (horis sititisi enow...) kai na se enimeroso pos afto pou egrapsa epanilimena, oti diladi: "Μπάνια is an ancient Greek and ancient Macedonian name", den to grafo tihaia i apo plaka (i giati etsi mou katevike)... alla giati afti einai i epikratesteri apopsi ton Palaioteron katoikwn tou choriou. Sigekrimena prin apo peripou 40-45 chronia (kata to `60) vrethikan tihea se dio diaforetika simia tou horiou dio megalis simasias plakes (pou itan grammenes se arhaia Ellinika -i arhaia Makedonika... opos pistevoun kapioi- kai os olos paradoksos kai stis dio aneferotan metaksi ton allon pos i sigekrimeni topothesia onomazotan "Μπάνια"). An kai to epomeno diastima (se 1 i to poli 2 mines) skopevo na episkeftho tin periochi, echo idi ksekinisi tin sillogi stoihion peri tis sigekrimenis onomasias (an einai ontos alithini i prokeite peri parapliroforisis).

Veveos ehis idi poli sosta anaferi kai tin mehri simera orthi orologia peri arhaiou Ellinikou "βαλανεῖον" kai italikou "bagno" sti selida sizitisis tou arthou.

Oso gia tin anafora shetika me to "Red Water", tha sou apantiso argotera i isos to argotero mehri avrio. Ok?

Giati eho idi argisi... se ena poli simantiko rantevou. :D Efhome na katanoisis ta grafomena mou... Σε ευχαριστώ. --Asteraki 11:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] anagrams

Thanks for helping out with the clean up of this. I don't know why I didn't realize there was already an article on it before. —WAvegetarian (talk) 22:24, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What COI this time?

So unprofessional of you! The second time my blog was added by somebody else, not by me. Check the IPs - it's not even someone from my region of the world.

I think my blog, being dedicated to hummus and hummus recipe, is not a bit less relevant than the two other links already included. I am truly sorry for not knowing all your sacred rules, and violating them by adding a link to a source of original content, which happened to be mine. True, I'm no "food historian", only a journalist who dedicates LOTS of time to a humus blog. And who open ed an English version to his local VERY succesful blog about hummus.

There isn't O-N-E other website about it except mine. Yet, you don't think it's suitable? (unsigned comment by User:80.178.56.8 2007-03-18T22:29:43)

Even if there isn't a COI issue, there is still the WP:EL issue. Anyway, I said "suspected" COI, and I still suspect it. First of all, the anonymous user who added it came from an IP address with no recent contributions, so apparently it was the only thing he/she has done recently. Secondly, two of the three other edits from that IP address involved adding Hebrew interwiki links, so there is some connection with a Hebrew-literate user, and you are apparently based in Israel. Perhaps a friend, perhaps a proxy. Third, you noticed this change very quickly, even though you are very recent and not very active contributor (6 edits since 3/14, all about this Hummus link).

Become the place that everyone agrees is the place to go for hummus information, and perhaps a link from WP will be appropriate. But I don't see it now. Good luck with your blog. --Macrakis 23:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[Shooky:] A few points for you to think about:

a. First of all, my blog is already "the place" for hummus. In Hebrew. Feel free to ask one of your Israeli colleagues to verify that.

b. I don't know who added the second link. I got lots of links since I shipped the English version a week ago. You'd find some examples here, mostly well-established blogs/sites: http://www.technorati.com/search/http://humus101.com/EN/?partner=wordpress

c. I noticed the change very quickly, true. In the morning I saw wikipedia entrances in my logs, and discovered the new link. Later on, I went to see if it's still there and it wasn't.

d. the important question as I see it, is not weather I have a degree in history or not (I learned Computer Science and Political Science, does that mean I can't be an expert in hummus?) but is my site relevant or not. It's hardly relevant that I call it a blog. "Blog" is the name of the format and has no connection to the content.

e. both my Hebrew and English blogs, contain recipes. I add high quality photos to make it more authorative - you can't taste them, but they look good. In my Hebrew blog there are also hummus restaurant reviews, also with photos - maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but the photos assure that I've been there. Of course I have the original digital photos, in mega-pixel sizes, which proves their mine. So, I have original content, related to the subject, which I can prove to be authentic and which is mine.

f. if I was desperate to add that link, I would look for a friend who's a wiki editor. I was awared that the link I added could be deleted. I thought if you, or another editor, will look at the site and it's high relevancy, you might keep it. I did not like the claim that it is spam, though. And now, that somebody else add it, it's under suspicion?! How many people should add it until it will be "clean"?

g. and it is, still, the first and only English website dedicated to hummus.

  • Dear Macrakis,

I do apologize on behalf of who ever it is/are who keeps linking to my blog. I don't like this kind of behavior myself.

Thanks for your response. There's no "bright line" defining when it should be linked from WP, but there are lots of things that might make people suspicious -- for example, links added by anonymous editors with no track record at WP. Blogs are indeed just a format, not a kind of content. But it is a format which is well-designed for additions of current thoughts (with older thoughts being pushed to the background, typically) rather than a way to publish well-organized content. So they are definitely interesting when you are reading the current thoughts of someone who has an independent reputation (e.g. a well-known politician). Anyway, let your blog prove itself, and don't try for pagerank boosts from Wikipedia. If it becomes a generally useful source (more useful than other sources we aren't using -- see above for discussion of Mediterasian.com), it will eventually make its way here.... --Macrakis 01:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anagrams?

Hi, sorry, I don't remember what you are referring to? --AW 22:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding edits to Lycos

Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia, Macrakis! However, your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove spam from Wikipedia. If you were trying to insert a good link, please accept my creator's apologies, but note that the link you added, matching rule alexa\.com, is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. Please read Wikipedia's external links policy for more information. If the link was to an image, please read Wikipedia's image tutorial on how to use a more appropriate method to insert the image into an article. If your link was intended to promote a site you own, are affiliated with, or will make money from inclusion in Wikipedia, please note that inserting spam into Wikipedia is against policy. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! Shadowbot 19:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Turkish coffee

Euxaristw. No problem, let me know if input or factual backup is needed. Politis 16:43, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re

Geia! I agree with almost everything you say. I just thought that, since he was born in Salonica, there is some even weak link wth the project. That is why I rated it as of low importance. Anyway ... This is not a major issue. I will not object if you decide to remove the banner.--Yannismarou 20:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Attribution

There has been an extensive effort to combine Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research (together with much of Wikipedia:Reliable sources) into a new policy called Wikipedia:Attribution, and its FAQ, WP:ATTFAQ.

Recently, on Wikipedia talk:Attribution and on the Wiki-EN-l mailing list, Jimbo questioned whether the result had adequate consensus, and requested:

You are invited to take part; the community discussion should be as broad as possible. If you wish to invite other experienced and intelligent editors, please use neutral language. This message, for example, is {{ATTCD}}. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Sotiris Ninis page dispute

Καλημερα σας. Ο εν λογω χρηστης εχει 3 μερες που δεν εχει σταματησει να αλλαζει την σελιδα χωρις κανενα λογικο λογο και απλα του ειπα ψεμματα οτι θα φωναξω τους διαχειριστες μηπως και σταματησει. Ο παικτης για τον οποιο γινεται η συζητηση (σωτηρης νινης) ειναι ενα παιδι Ελληνων μεταναστων απο την νοτια αλβανια (ή βορειο ηπειρο αν προτιμας), τον οποιο οι αλβανοι με το ετσι θελω προσπαθουν να τον βγαλουν ως αλβανο. Πρωτα μου ελεγε πως ο νινης πρεπει να αναφερεται ως αλβανος επειδη "τον πληρωσαν και λεει ψεμματα". Οταν τελικα του απεδειξα πως κατι τετοιο δεν ισχυει, τοτε του κακοφανηκε το ονομα "Βορειος Ηπειρος" το οποιο αναφερεται μεσα σε παρενθεσεις και απλα και μονο για να δωσει να καταλαβουμε σε πιο ακριβως σημειο γεννηθηκε. Επειδη απο οσο ειδα ζειτε στις ΗΠΑ, δεν δεχομαι σε καμμια περιπτωση οτι ο ορος "Βορεια Ηπειρος" ειναι προσβλητικος για τους Αλβανους, την στιγμη που οσοι αλβανοι ζουν εδω οταν ρωτουνται "Απο που καταγονται", οι 8/10 θα απαντησουν "Βορεια Ηπειρο". Συμπερασμα: Απλα ο χρηστης αυτος θελει να περασει την δικια του αποψη χωρις να υπολογιζει ολους τους υπολοιπους. Τελος θα ηθελα να σας ευχαριστησω για την παρεμβαση σας. --KaragouniS 05:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

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