Talk:Machismo

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Citation This page was cited by Bell, Mark The Review Of Communication Vol. 6, nos 4, October 2006, pp. 358-364. Ball State University.

Contents 1 Pronunciation 2 Delete 3 English usage 4 talk show 5 what? 6 Machismo 7 Original Research about wife beating and submission 8 machistas 9 why? 10 Concept error in the whole article

[edit] Pronunciation

I personally pronounce machismo as "makismo" in English, though I say macho as "matsho". And I think machismo is not necessarily always as negative towards women's role in society as machista. For example, I suspect that Arnold Schwarzenegger might be described as having machismo, while he would say politically he believed in equal rights for women. --Henrygb 14:25, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, Henry, but there is no etymological backup for the Italian pronunciation. Yes, some people say "makismo", but thinking it Italian does not make it so.

BrendanH 13:05, Apr 16, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Delete

I removed the following added by an anon IP:

P.S. Many historians believe that Spain's "machismo" culture has its origins in the Middle East and that it came to Spain when the Moors invaded. It was subsequently introduced to Latin America by the conquistadores.

BCorr|Брайен 16:37, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] English usage

The original article was poorly written; some of it was barely legible. I retained the content, but had to fix syntax and grammar.

How about making sense of the first paragraph? Does machismo (the word) derive from macho or vice versa? Not certain which was right, I left that alone, but this article needs some very intensive help. 24.6.104.89 23:51, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I find this very strange... Generally in south america we take machismo to just mean "male sexism". For example, if someone says that men are superior to women, or that women shouldn't work outside the house, he is called "machista". This meaning of machista is immediately obvious to everyone, and there's no "nice" interpretation of machismo. It's taken as just a word to describe sexism in males, not a "new concept" (I'm surprised as to how this article describes in great length some sort of phillosophy called "machismo"; machismo actually is more elligible for a wiktionary entry than a wikipedia one: it simply means, per dictionary, a perceived superiority of men over women. There are women who are "machista" too (for example women who teach their daughters to always serve men). Well.. it's just that. Macho means male. From there comes "machism": Perceived superiority of males. It's definitely not the same to be "macho" and to be "machist". It's not the same to be feminine and to be a feminist.--164.77.84.202 04:37, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] talk show

On Dr. Laura Bozzo's talk show it is important to point out that most male guest are usually Mexican or Central American because in many South American countries machismo is not part of their culture and it is uncommon and very frowned upon. Also there are very few women in Mexican government which is an another form of machismo

[edit] what?

. In Mexico, many men consider it an honor to be called a machista.

this is not true

I don't know about Mexico but in European Spanish society some (mostly uneducated) men (and some women maybe too) seem to equate being male to machismo. In Spanish there's sometimes etymological confussion about that and also some of reactive need to reafirm old-fashioned privileges by some.Such reactionary people naturally are proud of being machistas, even if they may hide it because of social acceptance. In some cases, I guess they just don't feel the need to hide their attitude.

While women can also be machistas (submissive or traditionalist) they almost never consider themselves to be it. --Sugaar 05:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Machismo

The article states, "Machistas believe that women were created to stay home and be mothers and wives. Thus, most machistas believe firmly in the superiority of men over women." As has been stated, there is no logical connection between women staying at home and being inferior.

I have personally known hundreds of Latin people, and none have fit the perjorative definition of "machismo". While that's an unscientific sampling, my hunch is that the misogynistic connotation is more myth than fact.

Please sign your posts on talk pages per Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks! Hyacinth 11:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Original Research about wife beating and submission

I have removed this original research about wife beating and submission to this page:

Many machistas also believe it is their right as men to seek extramarital relationships, although women are to remain faithful. Machistas believe that women were created to stay home and be mothers and wives. Thus, most machistas believe firmly in the superiority of men over women.

Some acts of domestic violence against women have been committed by men who consider themselves superior to women, whereby the doctrine of machista such violence may often be called appropriate or justified.

These claims are pejorative and inflammatory, and as such need to have references to ensure verifiability.

Nova SS 04:52, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] machistas

Certainly in Spain "machista" is regarded as having negative connotations i.e. some people would admit - in front of friends - to being racist but never machista. On the other hand, some (many?) mothers actively encourage their sons to feel themselves superior to their female siblings, and thus women in general, by pampering them and excusing them from daily household chores, etc. Likewise, it is evident that any society which does not actively promote equality is inevitably going to manifest some degree of discrimination, which unfortunately transcends into varying degrees of contempt or even violence. While the above is undisputable(?), as this is potentially a conflictive article/discussion page I have no wish to enter into a flame war on Wikipedia and will not include it, in the hope that someone more qualified than I, can word it better and be more PC. As regards the Schwarznegger reference, I know many men here in Spain - and clearly of certain generations - who are extremely weedy individuals and who nevertheless demonstrate extremely strong "machistic" attitudes. Defence mechanism? 83.180.128.192 09:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] why?

why is this shit linked to mexico?

[edit] Concept error in the whole article

The definition of machismo given by the article is completely wrong: 1-Machismo is not an excessive masculin behaviour: It is the consideration of men as superior to women. Male chauvinism or male sexism could be adecuate translations. This is the definition of the Real Academia de la Lengua, the highest authority institution of the Spanish language[1] 2- Although the word is in Spanish language, male sexism is not part of Spanish culture more than in other countries of Europe or of the rest of the world. It is related to ignorance and backwardness of some people, no matter which nationanity they are. I think it is offensive to include the article under the category Spanish culture. Some assertions made in the article are related with the term Macho, as it is used in English language, and with the clichés about Spain, but not to the word Machista. Machista behaviour is not only not part of the Spanish culture, but persecuted by the society and the laws in modern Spain.

Therefore, I vote for the deletion of the category, and the reestructuration of the contents in two articles, Macho and Machista. --Garcilaso 17:00, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Proceed--Garcilaso 13:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

This whole article is wrong. Machismo means sexism , so someone is "machista" if they think one sex is superior to the other. While "femenista" is the opposite. Also this has nothing to do with Spanish culture , Spain is as or less sexist than other countries. I find this article offensive , who ever wrote this is a complete idiot , only protect an article when its right ! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alvarodelamo (talk • contribs) 23:59, 19 January, 2007 (UTC).

Rather than a delete, I propose a radical rewrite. "Machismo" is clearly a concept that English speakers feel strongly about. But it should be made clear that:

• English-"machismo" should not be confused with Spanish-"machismo". The two words are false friends -- they have different meanings in each laguage.
• What, exactly, is "machismo" supposed to mean in English. FilipeS 20:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)