Talk:Lucy tuning

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This article is part of the WikiProject Tunings, Temperaments, and Scales to improve Wikipedia's articles related to musical tunings, temperaments, and scales.

I've restored the non-crackpot version again, and moved the kook version to Wikinfo, which does not believe in NPOV. If you don't believe that is a kook version, you should either discuss that here or go to tuning@groups.yahoo.com and present your case to the experts.

I've restored a correct version; I don't know who the IP addess for this change belongs to, but the change was in clear violation of NPOV. This material could be added, but it would need to be made clear that it is not the point of view of mainstread tuning theory by any means. The IP address 82.2.133.195 belongs to the same person who very recently added a Charles Lucy page (most re the multiply great grandfather), complete with family portaits. I suspect it Lucy himself, who is about the last person in the world to be able to present this in a neutral way.

The theory behind LucyTuning suggests that harmonics `"beat" and that any interval may be mapped by the addition and subtraction of: Large (L) intervals. Ratio = 2^(1/(2*pi)) = 190.9858 cents, and small (s) intervals. Ratio = (2/(2^(1/(2*pi)))^5)^(1/2) = 122.5354 cents.

There is nothing peculiar to Lucy tuning re beating harmonics, and this has nothing to do with the tuning. The so-called "large" and "small" intervals add no new information and merely serve to confuse matters in my opinion unless they are relabled the Lucy-tuned tone and semitone, since that is what they are.

LucyTuned music is written in conventional notation with multiple sharps and flats.

So is any version of meantone.

The reference pitch is A4 = 440Hz, all other notes being steps of fourths and fifths from A.

An A of 440 is standard, this has nothing to do with the nature of the tuning.

The harmonic and scale structure is mapped by a unique system of ScaleCoding, which suggests that notes which are closer on the spiral of fourths and fifths are more consonant than those which are separated by more steps along the spiral.

"A unique system of ScaleCoding" sounds like crackpot nonsense; it is in any case plainly false (a tone is not more consonant that a major sixth.)

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"dissent" "end dissent" does not belong in a Wikipedia article. If it had headers to separate it correctly, and some information as to who is doing the dissenting and their bona fides, then it might be useful. Otherwise, this article is really, really ugly. RickK 02:25, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)

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I've tried to remove some vagueness as to what portions of the last section are actual Lucy quotes... as I couldn't find them with a Google search, I guessed that the first four paragraphs were Lucy's words and put them in blockquote format for clarity. Can someone confirm the actual quote (the fourth paragraph appears to contain a typo) and its source, and put that into the article? -- Seth Ilys 21:55, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Lucytune is Charles Lucy, so he is the source. Gene Ward Smith 02:41, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)

[edit] π?

What mathematical properties of π are involved in this system of tuning? Or is it just that 695.5 cents is a good value for a fifth, and happens to be roughly equal to 600+300/pi? --Macrakis 17:30, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

That's it exactly. It's really just a certain meantone temperament. —Keenan Pepper 19:19, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

The decimal precision used in this article (e.g. "0.0384 cents sharper than the fifth") seems excessive. What is an appropriate precision? --Macrakis 20:29, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I can't tell if a fifth is mistuned by less than a tenth of a cent, even under the best conditions. Two decimal places should be more than enough. —Keenan Pepper 20:48, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

If we wish to illistrate the connection to pi then precision is necessary. Hyacinth 17:34, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

So what exactly is the connection with π? What mathematical properties of π are relevant to the qualities of this tuning system? --Macrakis 17:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

None. I could make a meantone based on e and it would sound just as good — and be just as meaningless. Don't tell Charles Lucy I said that though. =P —Keenan Pepper 20:14, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

As far as I know, there are two Intervals: L = and

[edit] 88-TET versus 12-TET?

I corrected (or so I thought) the phrase 88-tone equal temperament to twelve tone equal temperament. But I see Keenan Pepper has reverted this. Maybe I just need to do more research in this area, but can someone please tell me:

• Why and who tempers equally across 88 tones?
• Would a more useful comparison in the intro not be to the 12-TET system because it's so common?

Thanks! --Ds13 00:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you that it should be compared to the ubiquitous 12-tone system, but if that's the only thing you change, the rest of that paragraph makes no sense. —Keenan Pepper 00:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick reply. Point taken. I'm not familiar with 88-TET and Google is light on hits. When I read 88-tone I honestly thought someone meant 12-tone and was thinking 88-keys on a piano! Anyways, I'll add a red link to 88 tone equal temperament in the article as an obvious to-do for someone more capable to fill in. Sounds like a topic unto itself in the vein of 19-, 22-, 31-, 53-, 72-, etc. --Ds13 00:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with it either, and frankly I don't think it's worthy of an article. It's only notable for being really close to Lucy tuning. I've never heard of a single piece written in it. —Keenan Pepper 01:02, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Yup, maybe it is or maybe it isn't. The little stub is there now, so we'll give it a bit of time and see if anyone else notices and cares/knows enough to expose its notability. --Ds13 06:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stuff about 88-et

88 has been discussed in three connections to my knowledge:

• As a close approximation to Lucy Tuning, which isn't very useful because Lucy won't use it. However, anyone using Scala and wishing to tune to Lucy tuning can use it. No one could ever tell the difference.

• As a stab at a universal tuning, supporting for starters both meantone and 22.

• As a temperament supporting mothra/cynder, the linear temperament dividing a meantone fifth into three 8/7 intervals; 88 is a good tuning for mothra.

Gene Ward Smith 04:11, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

That's neat. I'll add some of this stuff to the article. Are there any actual pieces of music in it? —Keenan Pepper 04:26, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

In mothra? Not to my knowledge. Mothra[16] would be a place to start, and it would give a person something else to LucyTune than diatonic music. Gene Ward Smith 05:11, 7 May 2006 (UTC)