User talk:Lsi john

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Welcome to Wikipedia!!!

Hello Lsi john! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Below are some recommended guidelines to facilitate your involvement. Happy Editing! ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial How to edit a page The five pillars of Wikipedia Manual of Style Be bold in editing How to write a great article WikiProjects Getting your info out there Neutral Point of View Attribution Cite your sources Uploading images Image use policy Getting more Wikipedia rules Policy Library Getting Help New contributors' help page Where to ask a question Help Desk Frequently Asked Questions Getting along Wikiquette Civility Sign your posts Wikipedians Conflict resolution Getting technical Pages needing attention Peer review Utilities Village pump

≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 23:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome from Ratagonia

Welcome!

Hello, Lsi John, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay.

Here are some tips to help you get started:

• Try our tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
• Keep the Five Pillars of Wikipedia in mind, and remember to write from a neutral point of view.
• Sign your posts on talk pages using the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~, or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~.
• Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
• Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

• To me, the most important point is to Assume Good Faith, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. Study the policies, remain calm, and don't let yourself be bullied. The wiki is a collaborative effort, and everyone's contribution is valuable, despite what some other editors may think.

If you have any questions, see the help pages, ask a question at the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome, and good luck! Ratagonia 05:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Ratagonia, thank you for your words of encouragement and welcome. I must admit that it is very disillusioning to see such biased articles on wikipedia. It's frustrating to make edits and have them reverted by someone with more power and knowledge of the workings of Wiki. To be honest, my opinion of wiki has dropped significantly based upon my experience so far with the fanatical anti-cult activists. The fact that they can write such biased articles and legitimize their pejorative labeling is sad. Its funny, yet also sad, that they are actually a cult themselves and don't even realize it. Lsi john 15:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, well. Nothing good persists on its own. It took me 6 months of studying wikipedia till I was up to speed enough to arm wrestle with these folks. And we seem to be getting a small squad of wikipedians cooperatively working to get some of these things (glacially slowly) into line. It's also good to go out and work on less contentious articles where you can just have fun and contribute without the wiki-stress. Ratagonia 01:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your input!

Thank you very much. If you look at my talk page, you can see that Smee is making some promises. I feel that it is appropriate that I give her the chance to make the necessary changes in her behavior. That is me and is not binding on you nor on anyone else. What I recommend that you do is edit in the articles that interest you to correct any problems that they might have (see WP:PILLARS) and let's see how she does. I will be doing the same at my end. If you need any help, just hollar. Thanks again and Happy Editing! --Justanother 14:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Smee

Smee, another member, and I are in mediation. A truce has been reached that was signed by all three parties. Any edit wars involving Smee may cease after that. Plese do not engage Smee, it may make it worse. If you continue to have problems with her let me know I will be glad to help out a newer member. Good luck John196920022001 21:59, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

• And please do not use inappropriate bull-baiting language like: "anti-cult articles", "You, and your anti-cult activists". Thanks. Smee 22:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

John196920022001, thank you. I'm far too new to understand all the nuances of editing wiki, but I'm learning. Though I have no desire to 'engage' her, I am a strong advocate of neutrality, fairness and technical accuracy. I have great difficulty accepting 'smoke and mirrors' as valid journalism and, for the sake of wiki and the public, will continue to edit articles with those concepts in mind. Best wishes to you as well. Lsi john 23:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

John, Smee is not typical by far of the editors here. Please do not judge the project by her example. Most editors here are happy to see others contribute to articles. Please carry on! --Justanother 01:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm sure I'll catch on to the procedures eventually. I'm not easily discouraged, though I must admit surprise that such biased and one sided editing has been allowed to continue. She'll allow websites like skeptic's dictionary and forum.rickross.com to be cited, when it illustrates her pov, yet she summarily deletes any entry which appears to be counter to her pov, and then labels her deletion as 'invalid' source. I understand why she does it, I don't understand why it is tollerated. Lsi john 01:30, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

It is only tolerated because she is just an extreme case of where a lot of people are at these days; I will not spell out more so as to not upset her needlessly. We live in a materialistic society that, as a culture, does not value spirituality. As individuals yes, and as protection for the indvidual's right of expression, usually; but our culture values the material, not the spiritual. And young people traditionally reject the religions of their parents; these days a lot of young are atheists and worse, especially on the 'net. And this is a volunteer website with a young demographic and admins here are pretty tired of all the petty bickering and tend to turn a blind eye so long as everyone is WP:CIVIL. Gotta be civil! It is up to you and I and like-minded editors (like-minded as in finding misuse of this project objectionable) to keep editors like Smee in check. That is all there is to it and it only takes a few of us to do it. --Justanother 01:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] advice

Word of advice, John. Statements like this "I request that you stop using this incendiary, non-factual language." are red herrings to draw you off your argument and into a different argument - one that is about you, not about the article. That is a hard-won lesson for me and one that I am still learning. Stay on point, phrase things however you care to just so long as you are WP:CIVIL, keep your attention on the article, and just ignore the fish. --Justanother 01:16, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Hopefully I have not given an indication of falling victim to any red herrings baiting. I think pov arguements, or dropping into personal debates with extremists, is a waste of time and counter productive. Two quotes come to mind.. "Arguing on the internet is just dumb. Even if you're right, you lose." and "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig".

I try to base all my communication in established and documented fact. If you should see me falling victim to baiting, just box my ears and I'll sit up straight and jump back on track. Thanks. Lsi john 01:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Better then that you babysit me! Good on!! --Justanother 02:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)