Talk:Louis Carlet

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This article was nominated for deletion on 11 February 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

With creating the annual March in March in Tokyo in 2004, he has come to be known as a pioneer in the civil rights and migrant workers' rights movement in East Asia

This line is a total exageration and should be deleted if not the whole article. Pioneer? There are numerous other foreigners and Japanese who have been working in this field for decades longers than Carlet. And the March in March is considered a joke by many, including union members as it belittles the fact that many Japanese workers face the same labour problems that Carlet holds up as being discriminatory.Osakadan 23:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

If there are others more distinguished, write articles about them. I hope there will be many--it does not help the labor movement to quarrel about which ones to put in.DGG 01:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Not quarelling about who to include. Just that a few mentions in a newspaper or tv report does not qualify for a wikipedia biographical article.Osakadan 01:49, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

There would be more references to Louis Carlet in the media except that, as I mentioned in the article, there is a media ban on printing his name in some outlets such as the Asahi newspaper. I think if there is a ban on your name, you are rather note-worthy. Further, in covering the March in March demonstration for 2005, Maininchi Newspaper reported Carlet as "a pioneer" in human rights in Japan. Wanzhen 01:16, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The reason for lack of sources is not important when editing a Wikipedia article, unless that reason can itself be properly sourced. To support your statements you need 1. Source to say his name is banned by newspapers (perhaps he made such a claim in an interview?) and 2. Actual link to Mainich aricle that says he is a "pioneer". Sparkzilla 02:36, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Why not be constructive and find that article then? And the link to the magazine was deleted since it is obvious advertsing and it is not a reliable source anyways. Don't you know that thing is just considered a rag? Why reference it? Wanzhen 09:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

"The reason for lack of sources is not important". A press ban on the man is not important? This has sunk to new lows the likes of which would not be unfamiliar in Nazi Germany. Shame on you. Wanzhen 10:11, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It seems you are unaware of both Godwin's law and of Wikipedia policy regarding reliable sources. You are the person that is saying he is a "pioneer" and that he has been banned. It is your responsibility to source those statements, not mine.

Your opinion about Metropolis is irrelevant. Metropolis is generally considered a reliable source for Japan-based information, having a long published history and editorial oversight. Your deletion (thank you Osakadan for the revert) is especially stupid considering that the citation is an interview with Carlet himself. Sparkzilla 10:36, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Your anti-labour attitude is what is interesting Sparkzilla. The discussions on these Wikipedia pages reveal to anyone who is interested where you are coming from. Metropolis magazine is a well-known rag. Why would anyone except the publishers of Metropolis be interested in promoting it? Wanzhen 06:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The cited material from Metropolis is promoting Mr Catlet and the Union! If you continue to delete it you will be reported for vandalism. Sparkzilla 06:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mr Carlet's status

The National Union of General Workers article clearly states that the non-Japanese members, i.e. foreign workers, represented by the union are mainly English teachers. I understand that Louis Carlet works for the Tokyo South (Nambu) branch of the National Union of General Workers, so it would be more accurate to call Louis Carlet a foreign-worker union organizer than a migrant-worker union organizer. Refer to External Link to Nambu Foreign Workers Caucus.

I understand that Louis Carlet has worked for the Tokyo South branch of the National Union of General Workers for a little over three years, whereas some non-Japanese organizers have been deeply involved with the General Union (Osaka) for about 15 years — so his "One of the first non-Japanese people to serve as a full-time union organizer in Japan" claim seems to be both unfair and unwarranted. LittleBen 12:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the use of foreign worker as opposed to migrant workers. As to the "One of the first...." The article orginally stated that he was the first and a pioneer. "One of" seemed like a reasonable compromise when I changed it. While their have been foreigners involved in NUGW much longer, I am quite sure he is only the 2nd paid staff member. But we shouldn't forget that their may well be other foreigner union workers in other unions. Also, while it may be true, there is no citation available at all to support any claim.Osakadan 14:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I also agree that "foreign worker" is better than "migrant worker". regarding sources, editors should note that as the biography of a living person anything that cannot be sourced should be removed.

From WP:BLP: We must get the article right. Be very firm about high quality references, particularly about details of personal lives. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material — whether negative, positive, or just highly questionable — about living persons should be removed immediately and without discussion from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space.

Does a total of three years service qualify one for a listing in Migrant_worker#See_also and Foreign_worker#Migrant_Worker_Organizers then? LittleBen 15:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Not at all! Someone sneakedthat in. Someone tried to put see also Chavez etc on this page. lolOsakadan 22:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand that Louis Carlet is Deputy Secretary General in the Tokyo South (Nambu) branch of the National Union of General Workers, but not Deputy Secretary General of the whole national umbrella organization ja:全国一般労働組合全国協議会. This should be clarified. LittleBen 17:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Of the top of my head I can't remember but could find out easily enough. Only problem is it wouldn't be properly sourced and I think it would be difficult to find an acceptable reference as no newspaper article understands the difference either.Osakadan 22:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The National Union of General Workers article defines the Japanese equivalent as 全国一般労働組合, however this appears to be a mistake—the external link at the bottom of that page has the URL zenkoku-ippan.or.jp and displays NUGW, National Union of General Workers, at the bottom of the page, but the name on that link is [NUGW 全国一般評議会] and it is obvious from the site that it is 自治労 which in turn is part of 連合. Another link on the same 全国一般労働組合 page is to a split-off union 全国一般労働組合全国協議会 which also claims the same English name—NUGW, National Union of General Workers—and this page displays the same Shimbashi, Tokyo office address as the Tokyo Nambu Shibu branch office uses. So I think that the current Japanese link on the National Union of General Workers page is wrong. Incidentally, the 全国一般労働組合全国協議会 article says that this umbrella organization contains 43 autonomous unions. There is a huge difference between being deputy secretary general of a federation of 43 unions and being deputy secretary general of a single branch within the federation. LittleBen 04:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

NUGW-Tokyo South, which I know Carlet is deputy secretary General of could well have 43 unions. It is a question of how things are structured legally. And it is ver different between Osaka and Tokyo because of historical reasons. General Union is one union (based in Osaka and Nagoya) is only one union. Branches are set up in various places such as Nova and ECC. but legally, outside union by-laws, they have no legal standing. It is very different with NUGW-Tokyo South. While there are branches in some workplaces, others are legal union entities in their own right. That is why there could be 43 legimate unions.

The real question is if Carlet is also deputy general secretary of NUGW or just NUGW-Tokyo South. It could easily be answered with a phone call but that would not qualify as a legitimate source and I don't think an independent source exists.Osakadan 16:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)