Talk:Lordship salvation

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[edit] Free grace

I'd like to get a better account of both sides here with sources and some quotes. MessyJ has experessed an interest in getting that done. Anyone else interested?

Some things to get us going:

1. How do you think the page stands now?
2. Is the Lordship Salvation view well represented?
3. Is the Free grace view well represented?
4. Is the page neutral in its approach (given that it is the page for "Lordship salvation")?
5. Do all free gracers agree with Ryrie as the article describes his view?

--Flex 23:24, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm also interested in getting "a better account of both sides here." I do not think the Lordship Salvation view of how to become a Christian is even mentioned, which is the far more serious matter in the debate.

~~Clnewman~~

Please explain. As I understand it, this controversy mainly revolves around a particular part of the doctrine of salvation, viz. sanctification. The implications of Lordship salvation certainly reach back to the initial stages of salvation (e.g., if a person doesn't persevere, did they truly repent and believe to begin with?), but those initial stages are not central to the debate AFAICT. Do you see it differently? --Flex (talk|contribs) 14:00, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, and of course I'll be happy to explain as thoroughly as you like. The initial stages are hugely central to the debate, as I see it, of course.

Sometimes a tract (or preacher, or book) will be very eloquent about the need for the work of Christ, its great provision for sin, the inability of man to save himself, etc., but when it gets down to the end, right at the discussion about how to actually receive salvation from God, without mentioning it at all until then, it throws in some phrase like "I totally give you my life" or "I give you control of everything" or something like that. This aspect of Lordship Salvation is actually where the name comes from, because the Lordship of Christ is invoked as the reason for requiring these promises. This aspect of Lordship Salvation distinguishes it from the condition that you may be referring to as "if a person doesn't persevere," which is another discussion.

Clnewman 14:53, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I think we might be saying the same thing from different angles. Would you agree that the difference between non-Lordship salvation (aka, carnal Christianity) and Lordship salvation is that the former says works do not necessarily follow from a converted heart while the latter says they do? (As far as the name, I take it to be drawn from the notion of Christ being Lord of everything, including the believer's life. That doesn't directly and necessarily connect to any offer of salvation.) --Flex (talk|contribs) 20:21, 19 February 2007 (UTC)