Talk:Lonnie Frisbee
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[edit] Drugs and Homosexuality
Frisbee was abused and molested as a child. This may have led to sexual confusion later, both before and during his life as a Christian. He remained silent about these matters during the rest of his life. Though he was raised in a Christian home, he found the California drug culture more inviting.
This paragraph has a couple subtle POV problems. Is it the bigoted attitude of his peers that led to the confusion, or the molestation? I'm not saying the article should be changed to support the former view, that would just be the reverse POV, but the language needs to be made more neutral and less editorial as per wikipedia NPOV policy.
Second the sentence "though he was raised in a Christian home, he found the California drug culture more inviting", this comes from the POV that the California drug culture was necessarily opposed to Christianity. There were many Christian sects involved in the California drug culture, as a matter of fact the California drug culture is apparently what made LF dedicate his life to Christian beliefs. And I even know Christians today who see some drugs, like hallicinogens, as perfectly acceptable, perhaps even spiritualy edifying (if I were Christian I probably wouldn't hold this view, but nonetheless there are people who DO hold this view who are Christians--and very familiar with Christian doctrine--which makes the implications of the sentence in question POV.)--Brentt 00:41, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
If you began an encyclopedia article by saying the subject was a "prominent heterosexual artist", no doubt someone would comment that the artist's heterosexuality was irrelevant to his being a prominent artist. While Lonnie's sexuality clearly impacted his later life and needs to be discussed by the article, to start the article by labeling him a "prominent homosexual artist" seems POV to me. Also, the statements that Lonnie was "found by members of the ... mission" and that "when the missionaries found him he was talking about Jesus and flying saucers" strikes me as more subtly POV. In order to be found, one must first be lost, and while it's quite likely the missionaries indeed did see Lonnie as lost, I'm not sure that characterization belongs in Wikipedia. - Mark Dixon 05:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
- Good points. Saying he was "found" does come from a very Christian POV. Brentt 06:27, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Gifted1! Why did you deleted this? This is vandalism!
[edit] Lonnie & AIDS
- Lonnie contracted AIDS at some point in his life, and he died on 12 March 1993 from complications. He was eulogized as a Samson figure—a man through whom God did many great works, but was the victim of his own struggles and temptations.
I have a quick thought. AIDS surfaced as an epidemic in 1981. My uncle contracted it in the 80s and he died in about 1991. Therefore, Lonnie Frisbee must have been involved in homosexual acts or needle sharing. Just a thought. What do you think? MLSmateo 05:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- It should go without saying, but won't, that heterosexuals can, in fact, contract aids through heterosexual sex. Anal sex has a slightly higher risk because of abrasions, but its not like non-IV using heterosexuals don't get aids. But its moot. I think its not controversial whether he was involved in homosexual acts or not is it? I thought that was kind of inferred by just about everyone seeing as how he didn't have a blood transfusion. (Although there are other ways to contract it. For example a lazy hospital tech or nurse not sterilizing equipment properly--this actually happened to a friend of mine. The equipment was used on an HIV patient before her too. They called her a year later and told her to come in for a HIV test. Fortunately she tested out OK. Point is there are other ways, but since Lonnie did apparently "struggle" with his sexuality, it wouldn't be unreasonable to suspect that he contracted it through sexual intercourse.) Brentt 05:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Lonnie & Connie divorced
In 1973, Lonnie and Connie divorced, and Connie later remarried. Lonnie spent the next five years, in his words, "fritting to and fro throughout the body of Christ".
Please don't delet this very important informations about Lonnie and the roots of Calvary Chapel! --TransylvanianKarl 08:18, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- Assume good faith, don't go around accusing people of vandalism when its not obviously vandalism. I can see why Gifted1 might have seen some problems with both sentences. For the first one, it is a rather controversial view to hold that he was a "victim of his struggles and temptations" and not simply a victim of a unfortunate epidemic. (would someone who died of the flu in 1918 be a victim of their "struggles and tempations" if they caught it from frivolously going out in public?) As a matter of fact, wasn't there some controversey over Chuck Smith's eulogy because he said something similar? The POV issue is mitigated somewhat by the fact that it was a eulogy, and therefore just a statement of an important POV. But it probably should be presented as a quote from a specific person giving the eulogy (e.g. Chuck Smith), and not just a summing up of all the eulogies.
- As for the second. Even though they are LF's own words, they don't really mean much of anything to general readers. "fritting to and from throughout the body of Christ" is a rather esoteric statement. Most people (including myself and I suspect a majority of Christians) don't really know what "the body of Christ" refers to (it probably means different things to different people--there does seem to be a marked lack of consensus about what it means in theological writing through the centuries). So its arguably superflous to include it. It doesn't really present information that is useful to the general reader. I wouldn't be to concerened about the quote being included personally. But it is a quote that will be meaningless to the general reader. --Brentt 19:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Okay! I agree whit you and deleted, this 2 controversial sentences.--TransylvanianKarl 15:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Lonnie photo
I hope I did this right. I discussed with Duane Pederson (editor/publisher of the Hollywood Free Paper during the Jesus Movement) the fact that there was no photo of Lonnie Frisbee accompanying his article on Wikipedia. I mentioned the particular photo I wanted to post, and asked him if the HFP owned that photo. Duane responded "Lonnie's photo is from the HFP archive and permission is given for its use." I uploaded it to Wikipedia Commons and posted it in the article. - Mark Dixon 04:39, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
- After adding the photo I was informed that the photo's author, Jack Cheetham, had placed restrictions on the use of his work that would not be compatible with Wikipedia. I have reverted out my addition of the photo, and Duane Pederson has provided another from the HFP archive that is not subject to Jack's restrictions. I will be uploading it soon. Sorry for the misunderstanding. - Mark Dixon 01:50, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
