Talk:Long S/oh what fun

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< Talk:Long S

Template:WP Writing ſyſtemſ

1 Macintoſh Keyboard
2 Word compoundſ
3 Why not name thiſ page %c5%bf ?
4 Other Queſtionſ
5 IPA "ſh" ſound
6 Iſ thiſ funny??
7 Deſcending?
8 Triple ſ
9 miſuſe of characterſ.
10 May the ſ character bloſſſom like the roſe
11 Uſage
12 Alt code
13 Why?
14 Further about ſ
15 Breaking open templateſ
16 Can thiſ be moved to having ſ aſ the title?

[edit] Macintoſh Keyboard

"On the Apple Macintoſh operating ſyſtem it can by typed by preſſſıng the [Option] key then typing B or b."

Thiſ ſeemſ to be wrong. Option-b bringſ up the integral ſymbol, not the long ſ. – 84.178.114.236 12:42, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

That iſ the medial ſ... 68.39.174.238 03:42, 26 ſeptember 2005 (UTC)

No, it'ſ not. They are different characterſ in Unicode.--Proſfilaeſ 21:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

You mean preſſſing..? ;) --Thorri 14:50, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Nope. Preſſſing iſ correct. Angr/talk 15:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Correct by what ſtandard? I've ſeen both in workſ publiſhed in pre-1800 Engliſh.--Proſfilaeſ 21:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought it waſ "preſiſng" Iſn't the "ſ"ſ a compound "ſſſ"? --mordicai. 01:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The ſ ſiſ a compound "ſſſ" like w iſ a compound vv (or uu). They may have originated aſ ſuch a compound, but they are currently independent characterſ. If the font ſtyle in which you uſe an Engliſh long-ſ requireſ a ſſſ ligature, it ſhould be provided for in the font juſt like an fi ligature, or an ſt ligature, or a ct ligature, would.--Proſfilaeſ 18:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Word compoundſ

It iſ important to note that many languageſ, eſpecially Germanic oneſ, make wordſ by compounding ſhorter wordſ and word fragmentſ. When word a made iſ made from a part ending in ſ followed by another part, the compound word ſhould ſtill be written with a ﬁnal sſeven though it iſ now inſıde a word. The correct uſe of long verſuſ ſhort ſ can make the ſtructure clearer, and ſometimeſ remove ambiguity. Therefore, I ﬁnd the external article linked to extremely uninformative and poorly reſſarched.

[edit] Why not name thiſ page %c5%bf ?

I am confuſed aſ to why thiſ page iſ named Long_ſ, and the page named ſ iſ the ſame aſ ſ. ſhouldn't thiſ page be renamed %c5%bf aka ſ, the connection between that name and ſ be removed? I gueſſſ maybe I juſt don't underſtand how wikimedia naming workſ.

cſcibri 5 July 2005 22:14 (UTC)

The problem iſ that ſ iſ juſt a variant form of ſ. Hence itſ capital iſ ſımply 'ſ'. ſince the Wikipedia forceſ all articleſ to ſtart with a capital, there iſ no way to have thiſ article reſıde at ſ. Jordi·✆ 5 July 2005 22:24 (UTC)

I ſee... thankſ for clearing that up. -- cſcibri 6 July 2005 21:24 (UTC)

Yeſ, it ſhould be named that. I'll juſt change the redirect.-Monkey 13!!! 00:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't. -Monkey 13!!! 00:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

ſee my poſt above. The capital for ſ iſ ſimply ſ, and all articleſ muſt ſtart with a capital in the Wiki. -- Jordi·✆ 07:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other Queſtionſ

Why did the ſ fall into diſuſe? Hopefully thiſ article might be improved with more elaboration. --Locarno 17:10, 30 Auguſt 2005 (UTC)

What do you mean? It haſ not fallen into diſuſe at all!--68.13.122.35 01:22, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

If you need help on thiſ queſtion, you could ſubmit it to The LINGUIſT Liſt. I have found thiſ ſıte quite helpful in anſwering linguiſtic queſtionſ.

Thiſ page iſ BJAODN candidate material... 208.39.190.2 22:21, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] IPA "ſh" ſound

Am I the only one that thinkſ that thiſ lookſ like the IPA "ſh" ſound?Cameron Nedland 15:37, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Juſt to tell you, you were uſing ſ in the wrong place. It ſhould never be uſed at the end of a word, only in the middle or at the ſtart ſotakeit 16:51, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- Not true. ſaintlinſ uſeſ ſ at the beginning and the end. —MEſEDROCKER (talk) 20:07, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

- - What iſ ſaintlinſ? A word like uſeſ will uſe the normal ſ at the end of the word in every book I've ſeen printed with the long-ſ, which iſ probably approaching a hundred bookſ.--Proſfilaeſ 05:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Iſ thiſ funny??

I think thiſ talk page lookſ funny! The Wikipedianſ who put meſſageſ on thiſ talk page appear to want to uſe the long ſ in all their meſſageſ. Any other funny talk page to find?? Georgia guy 00:43, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

You ſinner! You broke the pattern! Why did you do thiſ? —MEſEDROCKER (talk) 20:08, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Jeez, you ſcrewed up the pattern. Uſe ſhort ſ'ſ ſomewhere elſe.Cameron Nedland 23:35, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Where the bee ſuckſ, there ſuck I;
In a cowſlip'ſ bell I lie;
There I couch when owlſ do cry.
On the bat'ſ back I do fly
After ſummer merrily.
--William ſhakeſpeare

That'ſ ſheer ſucking geniuſ. &mdaſh;Nightſtallion (?) 22:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deſcending?

Why iſ it called the "deſcending" ſ when it haſ an aſcender but no deſcender? Acſenray 21:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

You alſo ſcrewed up the pattern! But I dont know why itſ called deſcending.Cameron Nedland 23:36, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Long ſ had a dethender to begin with, and during the medieval era thcribeth gradually thortened the dethender part until long ſ had no dethender to thpeak of. Deſcenderleſſſ long eſeſſſ are an example of atrophied letter formſ. Oh gee, now I've completely broken the pattern.

Arbo 21:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Triple ſ

How would you ſpell "braſſſſmith"? Would it be braſſſſmith?Cameron Nedland 16:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Who knowſ? Given that uſerſ of thiſ ſtyle varied between writing a medial ſſſ aſ ſſſ and ſſſ, I ſeriouſly doubt that there waſ a ſtandard for the incredibly rare triple ſ.--Proſfilaeſ 18:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

ſeeing aſ "braſſſſmith" iſ a compound word, I would gueſſſ the common uſe to be braſſſſmith (though of courſe I can't be certain). --Algorithm 01:49, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it'ſ braſſſſmith. -Monkey 13!!! 20:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

FWIW, German orþography made -ſſſ- (braſſſmiþ) from every triple ſ. Wikipeditor 18:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] miſuſe of characterſ.

∫ (U+222b) iſ not the long ſ; it doeſ not have the letter property in Unicode, and it doeſn't change when the text iſ automatically uppercaſed. It iſ defined to be the integral ſymbol.--Proſfilaeſ 04:27, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] May the ſ character bloſſſom like the roſe

And, may the phyſical ſpacing of it one day improve. A very intereſting page with fine illuſſſtrationſ. CApitol3 12:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uſage

I have abſolutely no idea on how to uſe it.. Any place I could uſe an normal 'ſ' I can place an 'ſ'? Iſ it that ſimple? Or am I wrong? I probably am, but uſed it wherever I could becauſe I read the talk page before poſting and people are juſt crucifying who don't uſe it... o_o' 200.230.213.152 22:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The ruleſ weren't alwayſ applied conſiſtently, but the idea iſ that all lower-caſe ſ'ſ ſhould be written aſ "ſ" unleſſſ they're at the end of the word. The "ſ" we generally uſe uſed to be called the "terminal" ſ. &mdaſh;Chowbok 01:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Or frequently if the ſ waſ uſed in pairſ; it would be paſſſed, not paſſſed.--Proſfilaeſ 13:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thankſ... :D 200.230.213.152 20:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

ſtupid idea: how about creating ſſſ.wikipedia.org, an wikipedia 'language' uſing only ſ and ſ?ſ :D 200.230.213.152 20:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think "ſſſ" iſ a language Code. You would have to uſe ſomething like "en-ſ" or "engliſh", ſimilar to "ſimple": ſimple:. 68.39.174.238 01:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alt code

Anyone knowſ it'ſ Alt (and other) codeſ, like in the [[ſ]ſ] page?

Macintoſh

   Option+ſ

Windowſ

   Alt+0223 (on the numeric keypad), Alt+225 (alſo on the numeric keypad), and Alt+98785 (alſo on the numeric keypad)

Alt+0223, Alt+225 and Alt+98785 all produce ſ,ſ not ſ, on my computer. Jake95(talk!) 19:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

98785 for me produceſ thiſ chineſe character: 臡, but on non-unicode ſyſtemſ it would produce ſ.ſ The alt code for long-ſ iſ alt-0383 or alt-383, and only workſ on unicode ſytemſ. --Random832(tc21:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

You mean ſyſtemſ. Jake95(talk!) 16:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

X-baſed ſyſtemſ

   AltGr+ſ or Compoſe, ſ, ſ

GNU Emacſ

   C-x 8 " ſ

GNOME

   Ctrl-ſhift-DF or (in GNOME verſionſ 2.15 and later) Ctrl-ſhift-U, df

200.230.213.152 22:33, 2 Nſvſmbſr 2006 (UTC)

Note the above are alſo all for ſ,ſ not ſ - Ctrl-ſhift-17F for gnome in that caſe. --Random832(tc21:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why?

I certainly underſtand why the long ſ haſ fallen out of uſe, but could ſomeone explain why it exiſted in the firſt place? Waſ there ſome typographical reaſon for having two different lowercaſe verſionſ of 'ſ' but not other letterſ? --Birdhombre 16:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

The long ſ waſ the original form of the letter in ſome handwritingſ, and the ſhort ſ waſ the variant. The ſhort variant waſ introduced becauſe it looked better uſed in ligatureſ and terminally. The long ſ ſeemſ to have fallen out of uſe aſ the elaborate handwritingſ did: by modern timeſ handwritingſ had ſtarted to reſemble the ſhape of the letterſ alſo uſed in bookſetting (modern formſ). There were certainly other letterſ with variant formſ, ſuch aſ the r rotunda, which alſo ſurvived to near-modern timeſ. -- Jordi·✆ 17:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention the early ſtyle of printing would abbreviate an n or m at the end of the word with a daſh over the laſt vowel, when the typographer felt like it, along with a variety of other ligatureſ and ſymbolſ.--Proſfilaeſ 18:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

True. Medieval and early modern handwriting uſed many abbreviationſ and ſpecial characterſ now no longer uſed. -- Jordi·✆ 18:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Thankſ for the quick reſponſe. Theſe might be good to include in the article aſ well (or maybe it iſ and I juſt miſeſd it). --Birdhombre 23:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Moſt of the verifyable info iſ in the Hiſtory and Modern uſage ſectionſ. One problem with theſe kind of characterſ iſ that it iſ hard to find print ſourceſ of reaſonſ why it fell out of general uſe. -- Jordi·✆ 14:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Further about ſ

Ðe letter ſ iſ ſweet! We ſhould uſe it more. Alſo, braſſſſmith iſ correct. I þink it alſo makeſ the word "ſcrewed" look muć better. Wiþ a compoſe key on Linux, you can uſe Compoſ, f, ſ to get it.

Ðiſ iſ getting ſilly. toreſbe 23:03, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Breaking open templateſ

Let'ſ not open templateſ onto the page in order to change their ſ'ſ to the long-ſ. It makeſ it too hard to edit the templateſ and addſ too much junk to the top of the page to make it worth it.--Proſfilaeſ 09:37, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can thiſ be moved to having ſ aſ the title?

I waſ under the impreſſſion that lowercaſe letterſ were not a problem at the beginning of titleſ any more. Vitriol 16:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It iſ ſupriſing that you have mentioned thiſ aſ it iſ already mentioned under the ſubheading "Why not name thiſ page %c5%bf ?". Of courſe they are are problem. Look at Ebay, IPod (and related articleſ), EMac, IBook, etc. If the problem waſ ſolved, then theſe articleſ would have been the firſt to be corrected, along with thiſ one, ſurely? Jake95(talk!) 17:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I apoligiſe for not looking harder at thiſ page to find a ſubheading already ſuitable. However, I'm not ſure I underſtand the reſt of what you are ſaying. It ſeemſ like you're ſaying the mentioned articleſ are not fixed, when they are. Call me confuſed :/ Vitriol 20:39, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Quite unfortunately, thoſe articleſ are only ſemi-fixed. That iſ, they pretend to be fixed when they really aren't. If you view the articleſ you'll ſee that yeſ indeed the titleſ appear to be lowercaſe, but the titleſ they are ſtored under are really uppercaſe. The lowercaſe title iſ ſome Cſſſ magic or ſome ſuch, but the article itſelf really beginſ with a capital letter. Here'ſ a demonſtration of the problem: [[ſ]] comeſ out to be ſ... which if you hover over leadſ to ſ, not ſ. Thuſ the ſ article cannot be created... which ſuckſ. --Cadby (talk) 00:51, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Naming conventionſ (technical reſtrictionſ) iſ the place for anſwerſ! --mordicai. 03:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

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