Talk:Lolth

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Gracefool: Hmm, I understood the categorization under Category:The Abyss, but really Lolth has as much relevence in the new Category:Outer Planes as any other D&D God. I'm removing that category for the moment. Maybe a separate article - The Demonweb Pits - should be created? -Erolos 23:36, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Fair enough. Gods & goddesses of D&D are now subcategories of Category:Outer Planes, since as you say, they all live there. :) ··gracefool |☺ 00:03, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Not all of them do. In fact, according to the 3E Forgotten Realms setting, none of the Realms gods exist in the Outer Planes, because there's no Outer Planes in the 3E Realms cosmology. -Sean Curtin 02:55, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)

Oh. Okay. Removed. ··gracefool |☺ 02:22, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Jeremy Hanson (January 1, 2005): This article is very interesting. I had no idea that Tolkien created the concept dark elves. I always assumed that dark elves, or drow, were an idea created by the authors of Dungeons & Dragons.

Tolkien didn't create the concept of dark elves. Tolkien was havily influenced by Norse mythology, which has a race of dark elves, though they're little like the drow. As far as I can tell, it was Gygax who gave the dark elves black skin. Robbstrd 06:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Surely Lolth isn't one of the "Fictional Demons"? She is a GODDESS, not a "demon"...

She is very much both a goddess AND a demon (turned into a tanar'ri by Corellon Larethian). -Erolos

Actually, Corellon changed her form into that of a spider, but she didn't become a demon(ess). As she is a goddess, she can change her form at will into almost anything (she can, but she doesn't). → JarlaxleArtemis 03:14, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

Evermeet: Island of Elves pg. 70 Corellon: "you are declared tanar'ri. Be what you are, and go where you must." It was also highly stressed in 1e and 2e that much like Orcus and Demogorgon Lolth was a tanar'ri with worshippers rather than just a goddess. And I think she changes her form all the time... according to 3e stats she spent several Salient Divine Abilities on Shifting Form and Size. -Erolos 15:45, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Interesting... By what author is Evermeet: Island of Elves? → JarlaxleArtemis 00:23, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

The lovely Elaine Cunningham. Also, pre-Evermeet, Demihuman Deities (Eric. L Boyd) states: "Araushnee was transformed into a spider-shaped tanar'ri and banished to the Abyss. As an Abyssal Lord, Araushnee assumed the name Lolth and conquered a considerable portion of that foul plane, driving off Ghaunadaur and subjugating Kiaransalee in the process." Though references to Lolth as a tanar'ri go back before TSR even published the Forgotten Realms. -Erolos 19:42, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually references to Lolth as a demon pre-date the Forgotten Realms. Gary Gygax created Lolth as the Demon Queen of Spiders, & placed her in the World of Greyhawk. Robbstrd 06:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

This might be better resolved by some mention of the character's development through various works and editions. I think originally (in Greyhawk) she was a worshipped demon queen, and later the Realms version altered many details in the process of developing her background and current place in Realms cosmology. Wasn't the original Greyhawk spelling "Lloth", which was changed to "Lolth" in the Realms?

[edit] R. A. Salvatore's War of the Spider Queen

Should I mention Lolth's recent silence? → JarlaxleArtemis 18:18, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

I think it's relevent, so certainly if you want. Remember to add a {{spoiler}} warning, and to make sure that its noted that the silence only happened to the FR Lolth. I've actually been meaning to expand and clean-up this article in line with the FR deity articles for a while, I'll get to it now. :) -Erolos

I believe Lloth is now a Greater Power due to the events leading up to, during, and after the silence. Also, she killed and subsumed her daughter(not Eilistraee) when she ascended in power. Nezu Chiza 16:29, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Location of the Demonweb Pits

However, there appears to be some controversy regarding the status of the Demonweb Pits in that particular campaign: the 3rd edition campaign setting says that the Demonweb Pits are a separate plane, but in the novel Extinction by Lisa Smedman they are explicitly referred to as part of the Abyss, namely the 66th layer (as in the "default" cosmology). Lolth's Third Edition domains are Chaos, Destruction, Evil, and Trickery (and Drow, Darkness, and Spider in the Forgotten Realms).

The whole point of the War of the Spider Queen series is to "move" the Demonweb Pits out of the 66th and into another plane, is it not? So it should be all sorted out and there shouldn't be any controversy? (Haven't read the last book so I still don't know the whole deal.) -- Миборовский ^{U|T|C|E|Chugoku Banzai!} 08:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

That's true. ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis 03:37, 30 December 2005 (UTC)