Talk:Liverpool-Parramatta T-way

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Contents 1 Stations Table 2 Official name 3 Response to WP:3O 4 Alternative to Stations Table 5 Services 6 References

[edit] Stations Table

Can we please put this table back? It is consistent with the railway line pages in Sydney that I have been creating - and I hope to do it for the other methods of transport too. It's not timetable information or station facility information, which are reached from the TWay website- it merely shows the different stopping patterns available, where the stations are, and any connections available.

Name of station	Fare Section	Stopping Patterns		Suburbs Served	Connections
Liverpool-Parramatta T-way
Liverpool	19			Liverpool	Inner West Line, South Line, Cumberland Line, Bankstown Line (CityRail)
Macquarie	18			Liverpool
Memorial	18			Liverpool
Brickmakers	17			Liverpool
Maxwells	16			Cartwright, Lurnea
Ash	15			Miller, Prestons	Bus routes 853,854, 855
Miller	14			Miller, Hinchinbrook, Hoxton Park
Hinchinbrook	14			Hinchinbrook, Miller
Cartwright	14			Hinchinbrook, Miller, Busby
Busby	13			Busby, Green Valley
Green Valley	12			Green Valley, Bonnyrigg Heights
Brown	12			Bonnyrigg Heights	Bus route 833
Bonnyrigg	12			Bonnyrigg	Bus routes 826, 827, 831
St Johns	11			St Johns Park, Wakeley, Prairiewood
Orphan School	10			Prairiewood, Bossley Park
Prariewood	10			Prairiewood, Bossley Park	Bus Routes 800, 826, 827
Horsley	9			Bossley Park, Wetherill Park
Victoria	9			Wetherill Park	Bus Route 829
Elizabeth	8			Wetherill Park
Wetherill	8			Wetherill Park
Hassall	7			Wetherill Park, Prospect
Gipps	6			Smithfield, Greystanes, Prospect
Cooper	6			Smithfield	Bus Route 808
Smithfield	5			Smithfield
Warren	4			Smithfield, Woodpark
Woodpark	4			Woodpark, Guildford West
Canal	3			Merrylands West
Sherwood	3			Wetherill Park	Bus Routes 811, 813, 815
Centenary	2			South Wentworthville
Finlayson	2			Wentworthville, South Wentworthville
Coleman	1			Westmead, Wentworthville, South Wentworthville
Mays Hill	1			Westmead, Mays Hill
Pitt	0			Parramatta
Argyle	0			Parramatta
Parramatta	0			Parramatta	Blue Mountains Line, Cumberland Line, Western Line (CityRail), Bus Routes at Parramatta Interchange

I can do one for the NorthWest T-Way too, except we don't know the stopping information as yet.

JROBBO 23:13, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

This is not directory information, so please stop quoting Wikipedia is not a directory. It's an informative table that outlines the extent of the T80's operations - a valid and worthwhile point for an article like this, much like a table with a train line's operations. It is not timetable information by any means - there is no way anyone could decipher that to be able to catch a bus. If I was putting in bus stop addresses, the exact times the buses arrived, etc., then that could be deleted, but this should not be taken so far as to delete anything resembling a stopping patterns. All the table is trying to show is that there are two routes, and where abouts the different stations are. Simple encyclopaedic information. JROBBO 12:43, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The railway station tables are directory information as well, don't get me wrong. But I lack the energy to tackle that problem just now. As it stands, this is a series of bus stops. Wikipedia is not a directory. There are plenty of good reasons to exclude the above - accessibility / consistent design is one of them. Joestella 14:51, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

There is now no information from the table that is not included in the text list, except fare sections (Wikipedia is not a directory) and the somewhat arbitrary "suburbs served" info. The suburb list has been aggregated at the top. Joestella 15:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Can you please tell me what part of "Wikipedia is not a directory" this violates? I've looked through it hard and there's nothing in there that would exclude that table. Reference tables are fine, it says. The suburbs served is not arbitrary - it shows the area that the particular station serves. The fare zone is fine too. And design consistency is not an issue - it does not have to be consistent with *your* tables - we're entitled to have ones that look a bit different - anyway, this is consistent with the railway station tables. JROBBO 23:03, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Official name

I seem to remember this being the subject of some debate earlier. JROBBO's "official" name sounds more official... where is it from? The current page name is from the t-way website. Whichever one prevails, we should move the page there. Joestella 15:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

It was from the project plan and Environmental Impact statement. JROBBO 23:03, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response to WP:3O

As a person with no view one way or another on WP:NOT, I think the table in question falls under WP:NOT#DIR. Therefore, I don't think that this table should be in the article itself. Perhaps linking to a page in the external links section that has a similar table would be better. Cheers, PullToOpen^Talk 03:07, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

That was quick. :S JROBBO, why not simply add the exact (not surrounding) suburb name to the stops in the list..? Joestella 03:10, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Can you please tell me how it violates WP:NOT? I don't find that a good enough answer: I expected better from a dispute resolution mechanism. JROBBO 03:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

For example, an article on a radio station generally should not list upcoming events, current promotions, phone numbers, schedules etc., although mention of major events or promotions may be acceptable.

—WP:NOT

Replace "radio station" with "train system". PullToOpen^Talk 03:19, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

One could equally quote Wikipedia is not a directory, and Wikipedia is not a travel guide. Joestella 03:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Where is the supposed "schedule"? I don't have the timetable and everything listed, which would definitely violate the information; it's a list of the routes that the network runs - just like a railway line. What's the difference between this table, and this section, for example? JROBBO 03:26, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

The request was posted at Third opinion, not third answer. I am simply stating my opinion. As I said before, linking to a similar table would be much better than including the table itself. By the way, you two are both VERY close to violating WP:3RR. If you two can't come to some sort of consensus, consider posting this to WP:RFM. PullToOpen^Talk 03:31, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

JROBBO, it seems most railway related pages violate WP:NOT#DIR. Fixing the problem has to start somewhere. In any case, this is a bus service, not a train service.

PullToOpen raises a good point about 3RR. I have suggested a compromise above. Consider it..? Joestella 03:35, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative to Stations Table

I have seen the discussion above. I have also seen the current list of stops (which is not the best form of presentation in my view). Would this be better?

Garrie 21:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I like it, apart from the coloured text for the train lines, which should be converted to a coloured box and the text with a blue link as I have done elsewhere. You'll have to ask Joe, though, as he's the one who's against it. JROBBO 01:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Services

It is unfair to comare the T-way buses to Brisbane "as frequently as every 40 seconds" ( how much of the day is that level of service available for, and is it because the buses are all full?) What are the comparative objectives of the organisations providing each service? - to operate a number of buses? to provide a certain number of passenger kilometers? to achieve revenue targets? To achieve certain occupancy rates on services? These are all different goals and it is difficult to compare organisations with different measures of "success".

Are these services being mentioned by any key commuter groups - say the UWS student union newspaper or similar? Garrie 21:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

It seems like one of you has access to the 1998 Action for Transport 2010 plan (text from it seems to be quoted). Would you care to provide a link to it in the References section? Does this document mention objectives of the transport plan? Are they quantified or discriptive? Are they only after improvements or are they actually stating target service levels?Garrie 21:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)