Talk:Little Miss Sunshine

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[edit] Alternate Endings

Can anyone list out the 4 alternate endings in the DVD?

Here are the alternate endings as best as I remember them:

-The movie ends where the family is at a rest stop and Richard talks about old stories involving Grandpa. The scene is very pretty and scenic - which really didn't fit in with the rest of the movie. The directors even commented that this was the original ending, but turned out to be too "sappy."

-Another ending shows the same scene where the cop lets them free and the family walking out and Sheryl has a pageant crown that she places on Richards head as they exit the hotel. They laugh and Richard puts the crown on Olive's head and everyone comments that she did a great job.

-Another ending has same ending as above - but we see Olive get ahead of everyone else and checks to see if the coast is clear - and then we see the family run out of the hotel with a trophy bigger than anyone in the group. They all laugh and run out of the hotel.

-The last ending has a mix of the prior two. The dance routine ends, and before anyone can stop them, they take the large trophy and make a mad dash for the door. Then the original ending ties in where they run to the van, push it, jump in it, break through the gate, and drive off into the sunset.

That is how I remember the endings...NYKenny 20:35, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reviews

I added some quotes from not-so-positive reviews to balance out the review section (While leaving in the fact that it has a 92% from Rotten Tomatoes). Janors 07:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edits by 139.48.81.98

The edits made by 139.48.81.98 (talk|contribs) removed a large part of the plot synopsis, some wiki links and other information. Because the synopsis was requested on this talk page, I chose to revert the anonymous user's edits to the previous page. — Mustang_DVS (talk|contribs) 20:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

That wasn't a plot synopsis, it was an embarrasingly amateur play-by-play.68.146.198.203 08:23, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Be that as it may, the anonymous user also deleted much of the information that hinted at the fact that Dwayne is not Richard's son. The user also, strangely, un-wiki'd links and changed hard facts (like running time). — Mustang_DVS (talk|contribs) 23:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anecdotal Reactions

I saw this movie last week at the premier in Brentwood... without a doubt, this is the new "family-cult" movie for a long time to come. Highly recommended!!

I likewise saw this movie today and was very entertained. I would like to have had a better grasp of the relationship of the characters (the father and grandfather are apparently step parents and the uncle is the mother's brother). The end is defintely Hollywood and was a bit disappointing, but there are so many lessons to be learned in the film about how to approach daily life, I believe that the film has the depth of a meaningful Broadway play and should not be considered just a dark "National Lampoon" excursion, which it may resemble. The cast is incredibly good, even down to the uncredited role of Mary Lynn Rajskub of "24" fame, as the person who called the talent on stage. I was particularly impressed by the apparent cooperation given by the Miss America Pagent in this effort, since the film, on the surface, seemed to criticize such pagents. I gather that, over the years, the Miss America Pagent has tried to get away from the superficial attributes that make "winners" in other "beauty" contests, so, I suppose, the film helps push that image vs. the image of the Little Miss Sunshine contest. I am not sure that this theme was completely developed, however, and I am not sure what advantage the Miss America contest can gain from the film.

I would have cut the chance meeting of Frank with his graduate student x-lover as being unnecessary for the plot development.

The middle section of this article is ripped off of a syndicated news thingy. Probably this should be edited and wikified. (check out http://seattle.thewarrenreport.com/background.asp?pageID=9&catID=6 to see one example).

Is it just me, or does the girl remind you of Jules et Jim?

How is any of this relevant to the Wikipedia article? I think you want the IMDB.com boards. This isn't a place to discuss personal impressions of the movie. Moncrief 17:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Per Theater Average Gross

To understand the importance of per theater average gross, consider this hypothetical example.

A film makes $20,000 per theater average gross.

If it is shown at one theater for one day, you have grossed $20,000.

If it is shown at 2500 theaters for three weeks, you have grossed over a Billion Dollars. (And that's just initial domestic release. There is also foreign releases. Marketing tie-ins. Merchandising. Premium cable. DVDs. Broadcast. Etc.)

So, "Per Theater Average Gross" is a very crucial measure of a film's success.

72.82.183.16 18:36, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please stop inserting this "trivia"

Or at least stop doing so unless you can provide a verifiable source:

  • "Some audience members have expressed contentions regarding certain scenes involving Steve Carell's character, who is a homosexual. These audience members complained about how the term "fag" was used for what they considered to be cheap laughs.[citation needed]"

WHO has expressed "contentions"? Is this notable? Is this a trend? I'm gay, and I found the use of the word "fag" to be totally appropriate considering Arkin's character. Carrell's gay character was believable and sympathetic, and I'd be hard-pressed to see how anyone but a PC-run-amok moron would object to Arkin's character uttering the word "fag" considering everything else he says. I'd love to see your source (your own brain doesn't count as a source.) Moncrief 13:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Besides from using the term 'fag rag', was the word even in the movie? --DrBat 12:28, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
No, I don't believe so. Which makes this (thankfully given-up-on) piece of "trivia" even more bizzare. Moncrief 15:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
The term 'fag rag' was indeed used in the film when they were at the gas station and the grandfather said something along the lines of 'go inside, get me something nasty. Here's 20, get yourself a fag rag or something.' to Steve Carell. -KLink/NiN10col/Neotendo123 03:28, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I think it was completely apropriate

[edit] Family tree

Could someone make a family tree of the cast using the familytree template?

Also, Dwayne is from a former marriage of Sheryl's (Richard only fathered Olive with Sheryl). There's a scene where Sheryl made a passing reference to Dwayne visiting his father in Flordia, and "Divorce" being one of the things Dwayne yelled when he was angry after discovering he was colorblind. --DrBat 12:47, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
I was under the impression that he yelled out divorce because of the threat of his current parents getting divorced. He had just heard his parents arguing in the next motel room over imminent money problems the night before. JeffyP 01:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Again, there's a scene where Sheryl made a passing reference to Dwayne visiting his father in Flordia.--DrBat 22:54, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

How's this:

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ?
 
 Edwin Hoover
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Frank
 
 Dwayne's Father
 
 Sheryl Hoover
 
 Richard Hoover
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Dwayne
 
 Olive Hoover

Plutor talk 19:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Full plot synopsis please.

There is a spoiler tag, so could somebody who has seen the movie please put in the entire summary? It doesn't fit into the "encyclopediac" category when the supposed "plot synopsis" reads like a teaser.

I don't mean to sound antagonistic, must just be the insomnia making me cranky. --TopGear 02:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I am surprised to see the synopsis end at not even half way through the movie. It completely leaves out everything that happens during the road trip and the end. The synopsis can easily be twice as long if it was complete. I have seen the movie, but I cannot recall enough detail to complete the synopsis, sorry. Plus I am terrible at writing a synopsis. --AlexTheMartian | Talk 15:47, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
I tried fleshing it out, but all I could really do is get to the end of the dinner sequence before I lost myself. I, too, am not great with summaries. I'm really surprised that no one else has tried to finish it by now, though. I guess I could take another crack at it... Pele Merengue 21:51, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
Oh, forget it. There's no way I'm going to be able to write a summary without the film either right in front of me or freshly on my mind. Pele Merengue 21:59, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, the exact same way with me, I also have to either be currently watching it or have it freshly on my mind. I stared at the end and can not think of what happened next. The only time I was able to completely recite what happened in the movie to someone was the second I came home from watching it, and even then I screwed up in my summary and mixed up things and had to go back to parts I left out. --AlexTheMartian | Talk 00:14, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
I vaguely know the events, but I can't think of how to put them together or where they take place in the film.
This stuff happens on the first day:
  • They stop for breakfast. Olive orders waffles and ice cream. Richard tries to "subtly" warn Olive that ice cream makes beauty competitors fat. When Olive gets her ice cream, she offers it to anyone who will eat it. However, Frank fights fire with fire and just as subtly describes how delicious the ice cream is to Olive. Sheryl follows suit and has some as well. Olive eventually catches the drift and happily tells them to save some for her.
  • Richard (the father) loses his endorsement for his nine-step program over the phone while at a stop somewhere.
  • Some part of the Volkswagen breaks. Instead of fixing it, the family is forced to push the van to get it from neutral to third gear? Something like that.
  • At Grandpa's request, Frank buys some pornographic magazines. While in the convenience store, he is spotted by Josh, his unrequited love.
  • They briefly forget Olive and pick her up drive-by style.
  • They stop at a cheap motel for the night, renting three rooms. Olive stays with Grandpa, Richard stays with Sheryl and Dwayne stays with Frank. In the middle of the night, Richard borrows a motorbike to meet up with Stan Grossman (Bryan Cranston), the man who was trying to sell Richard's idea. Bascially, Grossman tells him that it's worthless and no one will buy it. Richard rides back to the motel. The next morning, Olive tells her parents that Grandpa isn't moving.
The following happens on the second day:
  • Grandpa is rushed to a hospital and pronounced dead from a heroin overdose. Everyone assumes they'll have to miss Olive's pageant, but Richard isn't willing to let her back down from her dream. Instead of filling out the paperwork needed for his father's death, Richard gets his family to help him take Grandpa's body from the hospital by way of the hospital room's window. They drive off with his corpse in the trunk.
  • After the horn on the Volkswagen gets stuck, the Hoovers get pulled over by a policeman. Richard tells everyone to act normal, but he himself acts suspiciously enough that the cop searches the trunk of the van. Instead of noticing the body, the policeman assumes that Richard is worried about the pornographic magazines that Frank bought earlier in the film. He lets the van pass through.
  • Olive has taken brochures from the hospital and is testing Frank and Dwayne to see if they are color blind. (The test in the brochure is much like the one seen in the Wikipedia article for color blindness). Dwayne can't see the number. Frank explains that he might be color blind. Dwayne begins to show signs of anxiousness. When Frank tells him that this means he won't be able to fly planes, Dwayne has an emotional breakdown and starts beating at the van. Richard pulls over and Dwayne runs out of the Volkswagen and off the side of the road; screaming, crying and cursing; breaking his vow of silence. He criticizes his family harshly and tells them to leave him. Eventually, with Olive comforting him, he apologizes and the road trip continues.
  • They finally pull into whatever building the competition is being held. They arrive slightly late and are almost disqualified for entry. However, Olive is allowed to enter.
  • Dwayne and Frank are both disturbed by the dozens of little girls dolled up like models and step outside together. They have a conversation.
And, the pageant:
  • The first half of the pageant. All of the girls are obviously extremely well-rehearsed as they walk down the catwalk for the swimsuit portion of the show. Olive stands out like a sore thumb: she's not extremely skinny or made-up like the other contestants and she is unsure how to walk on stage. Richard begins to worry.
  • Between the first half and second, Richard, Dwayne and Frank all try and get Olive not to enter the second half of the competition. They want to protect her from embarassment. Sheryl, however, is convinced that she needs to go through with her dream and it's not the right of anyone to take it away from her.
  • The second half of the pageant. Olive's routine starts simply. Dressed in a modest, Annie Hall-esque outfit, she begins with a simple dance. The song, however, that Grandpa picked out for her is "Superfreak" by Rick James. Olive's dance becomes increasingly bizarre and vaguely risque as she tears away at her outfit to reveal a more flexible red, black and gold costume underneath. The judges and audience are all at first horrified and they even try to force Olive offstage. Instead of pulling her daughter offstage, however, Richard joins Olive in her unique dance. Frank, Dwayne and Sheryl all join her as well.
  • The family is arrested. They are released provided that they never enter a beauty pageant in California again. They agree and drive off into the sunset.
So I guess the information above just needs to be more precise. For instance, what is the part that breaks on the van? In what order does all of the first day stuff take place (the magazines, forgetting Olive, Richard losing his deal, etc). What information can be left out? It just needs to be better organized, which is hard to do when you've only seen the movie once. Pele Merengue 11:42, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. Having a complete synopsis of the plot is not encyclopedic at all. This needs to be reduced to a brief summary of the situations that lead up to plot development, not a catalog of every event in the film. Stihdjia 22:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] from Below the Line website:

"LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE is an American family road comedy that shatters the mold. Brazenly satirical and yet deeply human, the film introduces audiences to one of the most endearingly fractured families in recent cinema history: the Hoovers, whose trip to a pre-pubescent beauty pageant results not only in comic mayhem but in death, transformation and a moving look at the surprising rewards of being losers in a winning-crazed culture. A runaway hit at the Sundance Film Festival, where it played to standing ovations, the film strikes a nerve with everyone who’s ever been awestruck by how their muddled families seem to make it after all.

No one among the Hoovers quite has it together, but it’s not for lack of trying. Father Richard (GREG KINNEAR), a hopelessly optimistic motivational speaker, is desperately attempting to sell his 9-step program for success -- without much success. Meanwhile, the Hoovers’ “pro-honesty” mother Sheryl (TONI COLLETTE) is constantly harried by her family’s eccentric secrets, especially those of her brother (STEVE CARELL), a suicidal Proust scholar fresh out of the hospital after being jilted by his gay lover. Then there are the younger Hoovers with their unlikely dreams – the four-eyed, slightly plump, seven year-old would-be beauty queen Olive (ABIGAIL BRESLIN) and Dwayne (PAUL DANO), an anger-fueled, Nietzsche-reading teen who has taken a staunch vow of silence until he gets into the Air Force Academy. Topping off the family is the grandfather (ALAN ARKIN), a foul-mouthed pleasure-seeker recently kicked out of his retirement home for snorting heroin.

They might not be the picture of perfect mental health, but when a fluke gets Olive invited to compete in the fiercely competitive “Little Miss Sunshine” competition in California, the whole Hoover family rallies behind her. They pile into their rusted-out VW bus and head West on a three-day tragicomic journey filled with madcap surprises and leading up to Olive’s big debut – which will change the entire misfit family in ways they could never imagine.

LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE features the directorial debut of renowned music video directors (and husband-and-wife team) Jonathan Dayton and Valerie Faris, who direct from a script by Michael Arndt. The film is produced by Big Beach and Bona Fide Productions, with Marc Turtletaub, David T. Friendly, Peter Saraf and Albert Berger & Ron Yerxa serving as producers and Jeb Brody and Michael Beugg as executive producers. The production team includes director of photography Tim Suhrstedt, production designer Kalina Ivanov, costume designer Nancy Steiner, editor Pamela Martin, composer Mychael Danna and the up-and-coming band DeVotchka."

...that's pretty thorough, and probably more than needed to make a suitable synopsis... its from here User:Pedant 05:39, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Existentialism in l.m.s.

Does anyone want to put in a summary of the many references to existential philosophy in the movie? This is a theme that is obvious from the very opening of the movie with Dwayne's poster of Nietzsche, and continues as each character's choices direct and shape the events of the movie. Further, Uncle Frank's choice to attempt suicide echoes Albert Camus' assertion that whether or not to commit suicide is the only great existential or philosophical question. On the pier Dwayne comes to the conclusion that one's choices make him responsible for what happens to him regardless of external or uncontrollable events, which is a concept created by Sartre.

[edit] Notable L.M.S. Quotes

  • "I won! I won! I won! I won! I won! I won! I won! I won! I won!"
    -Olive
  • "Where's Olive?"
    -Dwayne (& Frank)

[edit] Trivia

Does this page really need so much Trivia?! Half the page is bloody trivia!

It's more annoying that half of the pages is completely pointless trivia than anything trivia itself being overdone. Robixsmash 19:39, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Family Tree incorrect?

I believe that the family tree in the article is incorrect. It graphically shows "Uncle Frank" as being the uncle of Sheryl.

I saw LMS, twice. Frank is Sheryl's brother, not her uncle. Frank is the uncle of Dwayne and Olive.

Using customary genealogical methods, a higher positioning (or in the case of a horizontal tree, a more left-hand-side postioning) of person A is indicative of person A being in a generation that is older than person B.

We need to change the Family Tree graphic.

71.168.134.196 19:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


I created the family tree, and I know that Frank is Sheryl's brother, not uncle. I'm sorry if it looks unclear, but I have that box where it is according to the template example of an aunt/uncle: see example template_talk:familytree. I don't know if there's enough room to put it next to Sheryl because of where Dwayne's father is, and I didn't want to have boxes for Sheryl and Frank's parents because they were not part of the movie...suggestions? Plath81 22:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I moved Uncle Frank to Sheryl's level..hope it looks ok. Plath81 23:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Richard is not Dwayne's father? I just watched the movie an hour ago and I did not realize that they are not fath/son. Then again, I missed the first few minutes, so could someone please confirm this for me?

Can someone fill me in on this as well? I am literally watching it now (for the 2nd time) and there is no mention of Dwayne not being the son of Richard...NYKenny 19:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Driving without the clutch

Driving without the clutch is quite an accomplishment, but possible with a manual gear. The car is accelerated by incline or pushing in neutral, and at the right speed, gear is shifted to third which will start the engine (ignition key needs to be activated). Shifting up and down is done over neutral gear during which time engine rotations need to be adjusted to the new gear,- this needs a lot of experience and mistakes will soon wear down the gear system.Ekem 14:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I moved the talk page to the film's article, now removing the redirect to Talk:Little Miss Sunshine (film). Schi 21:09, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Reverted. Blackjack48 20:50, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

You also forgot to mention Cindy who is Sheryl and Frank's sister

[edit] Trivia. Again.

does it really need to say that the film was not shot in sequence? films are rarely shot in sequence, theres nothing special about it. i think it should be removed.

It says that it was shot in sequence. Which is special, because films are rarely shot in sequence. Pele Merengue 13:01, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Including the final shot which was shot after the rest of the film wrapped. All in sequence start to finish, the location scout is the one the crew said is responsible for being able to shoot in order. User:Pedant`

[edit] VW van

We need mor info on the VW van possibily a page do you agree? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Superspiel (talk • contribs).

Are you suggesting an entire article devoted to the VW van from the movie? Konman72 06:44, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
It's just a VW Type 2 Microbus. The article for LMS already has a link to the article on the Bus. to tough to die 22:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
There were 4 vans used in the movie, all repainted to the custom color that was picked from among 4 final choices for colors. One of the vans had a air conditioner rigged to it with ducts running from a towed HVAC unit. All of the interior 'on-highway shots' were in a van towed on a trailer, in turn towing the HVAC rig. The vans were not all the same year. The van was set-dressed, including Cheerios crushed into the carpet. Sorry no NOR source for any of this. It was a Q&A after a screening User:Pedant 05:46, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
This is silly to add - but I remember reading somewhere that there were 5 vans. No proof - just something I remembered.NYKenny 21:40, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dwayne's shirt

In the film Dwayne (the teen) has on a white shirt with a face on it. Does anyone know who's face that is? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.35.254.252 (talk) 20:55, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

Big Brother is Watching You [1] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.219.69.69 (talk) 06:14, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

Don't forget the Jesus was Wrong shirt. Anyone know who did the giant sketch on the bedsheet in his room? I can't find a WP:NOR source for it, but all the scenes in Dwayne's room were shot in the same room as the scenes in Olive's room. The house they shot in had to be 'ensmalled' by adding walls to make the house seem more cramped. The entire house was emptied prior to set dressing, and the cast and crew referred to the resulting set as "the Hoover Prison". All this is from a Q&A after a screening I saw, so it's all original research... but thought it would be interesting to add to the discuss page anyway. User:Pedant 20:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Yep, the whole movie is pretty much a prop for communism. --Haizum μολὼν λαβέ 09:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] l.m.s. and Steinbek's Grapes of Wrath

I wonder if anyone else has seen thematic connections between LMS and The Grapes of Wrath. There are some possible allusions i.e. Grandpa dying en route to their destination, destination of california, numerous car troubles, crossing the desert to arrive at destination, small-town unasuming folks progressing toward loss of innocence in the harsh reality of pagentry/harvest picking, themes of death...

There are probably others and I admit that some of theese are quite weak but hey, I'm just a simple highschool student don't pay any attention to me.

Also as far as existential themes, the above writer has good points about Sartreian existentialism, but Nieztche came before the real existentialist movement, and Camus always denied being an existentialist, but rather defined himself as an absurdist. Dwayne's soliloquy at the pier is more eximplary of post-modern philosophy (f*** it all). The movie also echos Simone de Beauvoir to some small extent in the undeserved yet inevitable denaturization of the second sex (females) and its dealings with post traumatic stress. Ah but I digress, oh well.Loridan 06:52, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

It was originally supposed to be set on the east cost, so those connections sound some what coincidental.71.65.34.160 05:28, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] synopsis cut

Removed this from the plot summary:

(this information is actually not revealed until later in the movie, however it can be predicted as Sheryl says to Frank, "I'm so glad you're here", to which he responds, "That makes one of us.")

It's apparent from the conversation Sheryl has with the doctor ("No sharp objects" he says) that he tried to commit suicide. RoyBatty42 02:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Best Director

didn't it win this in the idependent spirit awards? 71.65.34.160 05:34, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] error in cast

I would like to know that Shayne Murphy, a politician, is listed as a pageant contestant in the cast of this movie. I have slight reason to believe that this might be false.--Ed ¿Cómo estás? 21:59, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

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