Talk:List of tall men

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Wasn't George Washington 6' 3"?

-Somebody is vandalizing this page. They are writing in things like "Famous Substitute Teacher" or "Famous Gay Activist". I'm going to start deleting it, and I'm telling the person who's doing this to please stop, or they will be banned from writing on this article.-4/18/06


This list is highly inconsistant with the other 3 height lists. For some reason, somebody erased the 6'1" and 6'2" heights from the list, which is inconsistant because the avarage Male height is 5'9 1/2, meaning 5'6 (which is the highest possible height on the short men chart) is equivallent to 6'1, meaning both are 3 1/2 inches away from avarage. The avarage Male american women height is 5'4 1/2, meaning 5'8 (The Lowest possible tall women height listed) is 3 1/2 inches above avarage, meaning 5'8 for a women is 6'1 for a man. Also meaning 5'1 is 3 1/2 inches below avarage, which is the highest possible height for a women. Some person changed the lowest height to 6'3, which is 5 1/2 inches above avarage, and highly inconsistant with the others. So please leave it at 6'1.- 2/3/06

You might want to see Talk:List of famous tall women. What should be considered tall or short is relevant, and it currently seems that 3 to 4 inches above or below average is what is being uses. - Matthew238 02:51, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] 3 and a half inches than the average in WHICH country?

If we're to judge by those standards, shouldn't people who might not be considered "tall" in their own country be removed from the list? 6-foot-1 inch is not tall even in America.

RE: 3 1/2 inches from American height, but I think most countries if avaraged in would be about 5'9 or 5'10, that is except asian and a few other cultures. As far as 6’1 in America, that’s pretty tall!

6'1" is not that tall! I know many people who are 6' or 6'1".

Is 6ft 2 and a half inches really necessary. Maybe begin an 6ft 3in, or else at 6ft 2in (which is really not unusually tall.

your just talking about wealthy country's most of the worlds population come from countrys that are poor so heights like 6'1 would seem to be tall to them

[edit] Details

I'll write this here, but it also applies to


Maybe we could have some details next to the names - who they are, what they do (eg. Christopher Lee — actor) etc. The only info given now is there height, but it would be good to know who these people are. - Matthew238 07:54, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I think we ought to cut the recent additions of basketball players. A huge majority of NBA players them is over 6 ft 2 in. Maybe we could keep only the really tall ones (Yao, Bol...) or the really really famous ones (Jordan, Dr.J...). - Mrbluesky 19:02, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

The average NBA player height from the 2005-2006 player survey is 6'7.18" (201.12 cm). Accordingly, this article would need to show most of the NBA. That doesn't sound very practical or useful. Rcharman 02:37, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] And for famous tall men whose size is not exactly known ?

Is it possible to add a section "Exact size unknown" for people we don't know the exact size, like Rollo the Gangler ? -Ash_Crow 22:23, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Well the heights of many celebrities are often unknown, or at least questioned, like Andre the Giant or Hulk Hogan - even Arnold Schwarzenegger or Tom Cruise - and many historical figures were noted for there tallness (or shortness), without exact measurement being recorded. - Matthew238 07:45, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reasonable Shortest Height Cutoff: 6'6" (198 cm)

This height analyzer, based on US statistics from 1994 from the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, gives the percentage of US men taller than a given height. For the heights 6'1"-6'6", the percentages are:

  • 6'1" : 6.3%
  • 6'2" : 3.1%
  • 6'3" : 1.3%
  • 6'4" : 0.5%
  • 6'5" : 0.2%
  • 6'6" : <0.1%

While average heights vary among sources, with fewer than one person in a thousand achieving the height of 6'6" (198 cm), it's a much more reasonable cutoff than 6'1" (about 1 in 16). Rcharman 02:37, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I too think 6'1" is too short of a cutoff. I'd suggest 6'3" at the least.--Fallout boy 12:05, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

It is not about percentages, it is about inches and when somebody is above 3-4 inches than average you notice it and say "he is taller than most of us" and consider him tall. In America men are 5'9" as average, so 4 inches above that (6'1") IT IS tall.

5'9" is only the average when you include Asians and HIspanics who usually average aroud 5'6" or 5'7". In reality it's more like 5'10.2" for Whites and for A-As, and most of the people i know are at least 5'11" (except my grandpa, he's an incredibly short 5'6"!). Smart194 19:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The problem, unsigned commenter, is that if we include all notable figures above 6'1", the list becomes pointlessly long, and therefore is a viable candidate for deletion. While such information might make a possible category (like 1987 births, for example), as a list, it's unwieldy and unmanageable. Rcharman 10:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion "tall" should start at 6'3" or 6'4". 6'2" is only about 2 s.d. from the average, and not particularly significant. -- The Anome 12:38, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I think 6 ft 6 in is a good starting point. I think it deffo shouldn't start below 6 ft 3 in.(Halbared 09:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC))

I deleted an offensive message --18:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)Watchman of Wiki

Please, listen to me. I know a lot about height as I'm an auxiologist and anthropologist. Average height in male population is 6 ft 6 in, and 6 ft in female. My resources are 100% factible, so shut up!! Dark thief of 7 feet 18:47, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Unless you have reliable sources that allow us to verify that statement I'm afraid no-one is going to use your claims of expertise as the basis for this article. It is, in fact, clearly nonsense that the average human male height is 6 ft 6 in. Please do not vandalise this and related articles. Thanks, Gwernol 18:55, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Average Height Chart

Include all heights outside of this chart in the lists of famous tall/short people.

Women Men
5'2 5'7
5'3 5'8
5'4 5'9
5'5 5'10
5'6 5'11
5'7 6'0
5'8 6'1
5'9 6'2

Hence:

  • tall men = 6'3 and up
  • tall women = 5'10 and up
  • short men = 5'6 and under
  • short women = 5'1 and under

I think that's the consensus.

Unionbay 20:41, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

- But then the short list would have to change. The average Male Height is 5'9 1/2, which means 5'6 is 3 1/2 inches below average. 6'3 is 5 1/2 inches above average. 5'10 is also about 5-6 inches above average for a women. 5'1 is about 3-4 inches shorter then average. The only way it would work would be:

Tall Men- 6'3 Tall Women- 5'10 Short Men- 5'4 Short Women- 4'11

OR the way it is now:

Tall Men- 6'1 Tall Women- 5'8 Short Men- 5'6 Short Women- 5'1


[edit] NBA

For example most of NBA and other basketball leagues players should be in this list. It should be deleted.

As Mrbluesky proposed, the list of NBA players should probably be limited to the very tallest and the extremely famous. We could make a note on top. 惑乱 分からん 08:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Is it true that Ralph Sampson is the tallest "African-American baseketball player"? Manute Bol is taller, and his page describes him as "Sudanese/American."

Most of NBA players are billed about 2-3 inches above their real height on an average....This is a generally acceppted truth....

[edit] Deleting content as proposed

I'm going to start to deleting content per the discussions above. I'm going to start with eliminating everyone below 6 foot 3, then I'll start deleting people who aren't particularly famous, starting with obscure basketball players. I'm not comfortable deleting, say, cricket or football players but I can definitely weed out the non-notable b-ballers.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 01:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Have made a lil cleanup.(Halbared 08:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC))
Does this mean that the List of famous short men can start at 5'5"? (both 5'5" and 6'3" are 5 inches from the mean) - 68.33.120.32 01:26, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm down with that. 5'6" doesn't seem that excpetional.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 03:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who's notable and who's not?

This list includes far too many people who can hardly be called "famous." As I stated earlier, I can help by removing all the obscure and mediocre basketball players that recurringly clutter this list.

However, I seem to be getting into a mini-edit war with various, mostly anonymous editors. I believe I've deleted Amir Johnson 3 times in the past week and Luke Walton at least twice. How are these guys more famous than the average NBA player? Convnice me; I'm a reasonable man. I've already reconsidered my decision to delete Darryl Dawkins given all those backboards he shattered. --The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 07:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

You are a notable player since the day you stepped into the NBA. But you cannot get into that list on that sole criterion, or the list will be meaningless. You are bound to suggest a very strict test: for instance, you have to be either in NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team or or a MVP or Finals MVP to be included. This comment was co-writen with Hubie Brown. Mrbluesky 20:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

How about basketball players famed outside NBA? Basketball players played when or where NBA is not so popular??
Before the conflict with the Chinese officials in 2002, Wang Zhizhi had a large fan base since he had 7 CBA championships (Yao Ming had only one after he left for NBA). After he went to NBA as the first Chinese player, he soon became a household name in China. Why is he not notable? --Skyfiler 17:33, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


Basketball players are tall, that is excapted. So they can't just be blanket added. What the previous three deletions discussions have raised is how we should select people for this list. I would advise for basketball players those who have made their fame outside the sport and those who are freakishly tall. Also some football stats seem to have wildly different information. For one player I found his height ranged from 191 cm to 198 cm. There were too many sources to be able to choose one.Halbared 09:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No complaint, but

Where is Justin Guarini? User:gmeric13@aol.com

Justin Guarini is 6.2½ ft/ 189 cm according to IMDB. Slightly below the criterion (which is in discussion of heightening, anyway...) 惑乱 分からん 14:27, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who is notable

There are many people who seem to have stubs created purely for the purpose of ading them to this list (e.g. Kevin Durand). The list is becoming lengthy and unwieldy mostly due to non notable (are they famous???) people. Personally I think 6 ft 6 in is the best height to start, or even 6 ft 5 in. But if we leave it at 6 ft 3 in then we have to make sure that not just eevryone is added, what criteria should we have for notability? Just because someone hapenms to be a sports star does not make them notable, basketball stars are god examples. There are genuines basketball famous people, who surpass their sport, Magic Johnson, Shaq, Kareem etc, height isn't the ontm factor here, it is also fame. Some of the stubs in Wiki are not notable and in my opinion should be deleted anyway.(Halbared 13:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC))

I don't know who half the people are in the list through various reasons. But the same people will be notable to users older than me, or in different countries; e.g, I don't know any of the baseball players, but they could be huge (no pun intended) in America. As for the cut off height, I think it should stay as 6'3, as if you moved it to any higher than 6'4, you'd lose half the list. 6'3 and 6'4 are the busiest sections. 124.5.101.121 13:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Good point aboot who is notable to whom. That's why we need to agree on criteria now. The list is slowly building up into something unwieldy and plain unsightly. As you go above 8 feet it seems clear that people can be put in simply for height. But basketball is a sport famous for tall players, obviously, and simply being a basketball player (or sports person) shouldn't be an auto qualifier for the list, because they all go in or none do, obviously the 'famous' ones do, the ones that are genuinely famous in that people who don't know the minutiae of basketball would know, good examples are 'Magic' and Shaq and Kareem. Likewise for other sports. As the list goes down to the 6 ft 4 in chaps and the like, it becomes excessively huge and I think the criteria should be tightened even more.(Halbared 14:15, 11 August 2006 (UTC))
This is me from above, I've just registered for an account. As it's clear you won't stop reverting things you don't like, here's my evaluation on the offending people;
  • Martin Bayfield - Played for his national team and is exceptionally tall, so I think he should stay.
  • Wade Dooley - I don't know about him, and there's nothing on his article about him being tall so he can be deleted.
  • Abraham Benrubi - Again, I know nothing about him but his article hardly paints him as notable.
  • Kevin Durand - Same for him.
  • Ken Kirzinger - Pretty tall, and IMDB has a massive entry for him, so I think he too should stay.
  • Ferguson Jenkins, Peyton Manning, and Max Mirnyi - I know nothing about these people but their entries all boast some good sounding statistics and records so I wouldn't be opposed to these staying.
  • Scott Quinnell - I vote he be deleted.
  • Francesco Toldo - He has caps for Italy and played in Euro 2004 so he could probably stay.
  • Batista - Not sure, most wrestlers are big so I think there needs to be a reason to put them in.

As for the Hulk Hogan and Tim Robbins changes, I can provide quotes for both of those, so please don't revert them again. BertieBasset 15:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, you ahve put forward good points for Bayfield and Toldo. The Robins thing is as u left it and the Hogan thing is sorted. I would query the Jenkins/Manning/Mirnyi trio, are they really notable? And I agree on most wrestlers, they really don't need a mention apart from the true giants.(Halbared 14:37, 13 August 2006 (UTC))

How aboot a set amount of ppl for those less that 6 ft 6 in? A smaller set amount for 6 ft 6 in to 7 ft and a smaller set amount for those above? At the moment, names are being added that are debatable, and the list is growing unwieldly again.(Halbared 07:23, 21 August 2006 (UTC))

I'd put 6 ft 4 as the cut-off. It's a bit arbitrary, but several songs indicate that "6 ft 4" is tall. Also you could still include Christopher Lee and Conan O'Brien that way. Although I think a higher bar should exist for basketball players.--T. Anthony 11:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I'd agree with that, how aboot a vote?(Halbared 11:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC))
I'm re-adding Wade Dooley. He's 6 foot 8 inches tall and he played more times for England than Martin Bayfield who is still included. Sasaki 15:04, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
I added a source for him. Please, all new contributions need a source.Halbared 22:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vote on minimum height

  • 6 ft 4 in It would allow for more names above 6 ft 4 in.(Halbared 11:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Basketball players

You guys have done a great job weeding out the non-notable people from this list. I added a few extremely notable (and very tall) basketball players that might have been understandably deleted out of ignorance of the sport. I tried to be very selective.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 19:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Cool. I only know the very elite like Magic, Kareem, Jordan et al.(Halbared 21:23, 22 August 2006 (UTC))

[edit] David Prowse

Prowse on his own site say's he is 6 ft 7 in. is there a better sHow ource? http://www.darthvader-starwars.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10&Itemid=28

IT IS RIDICULOUS THAT YOU HAVE ERASED EVEN THE 6FT 3 HEIGHTS FROM THE LIST IS 6 FT 3 AND A HALF NOT TALL? THE WOMENS NOW STARTS AT 5 FT 10 INCH - 5 INCHES ABOVE AVERAGE HEIGHT. THE MENS EQUIVALENT 5 INCHES OVER AVERAGE IS 6 FT 2 !!!!! NOT 6 FT 4. THERE SHOULD BE NO EXCUSE ABOUT MORE PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST. A 6 FT 3 GUY IS WELL ABOVE AVERAGE. I AM 6 FT 1 AND AM A LOT TALLER THAN MOST PEOPLE. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 07:42, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Average height for whom tho, not for the tallest race or tallest nationality.(Halbared 08:14, 2 September 2006 (UTC))
It's all relative. I'm 5'11 and I meet a great deal of people that I'm taller than every day, but I went to Holland and was dwarfed by pretty much everybody. 6'3 is pretty tall compared to the average stats but when that was included, the list was huge, cumbersome wth all sorts of people and jobs included. People who are 6'3 aren't going to be famous for being tall, whereas with a 6'4 man, I could almost guarantee that it would be mentioned wherever you find a piece about them. Besides, on your profile you say you're 6'6" so somebody's telling porkies... HamishMacBeth 14:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

This topic generates more childish arguments than any other entry I've seen on Wikipedia. And it needs to stop. Giving each member of the list a source would sort a lot of the argument. From what I've seen; celebheights.com seems to be pretty accurate and reliable, however, not everybody is listed on it. Using them as a base, we could source many people of the list but it's a lot of hassle, and it's whether contributors, including myself, can be bothered. HamishMacBeth 14:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The sources argument was put forward by an admin, since it solved a problem on a similar page. Whether you think something is childish or not is irrelevant, and your comments do not help the matter, I myself think the source thing it is a good way to move forward.(Halbared 14:41, 2 September 2006 (UTC))
Fair enough. Unless anybody competently disagrees, that sounds like a good way to solve it. I'll try and write up a disclaimer similar to the notable one; I think it should suggest that IMDB and Wikipedia are not acceptable sources. One other problem, as shown with David Prowse, is should we go with peak height or current height? HamishMacBeth 15:33, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Cool. I myself would go with current height (a stats link might help, like with the Hulk and Andre situation?), I tried to find sources on D Prowse...and all I could find was 6 ft 7 in. And this was from the source on his bio page that deals with the problems he suffered in the 90's. If anyone can find a good source to correct this, that would be helpful.(Halbared 15:39, 2 September 2006 (UTC))
As nobody objected, I've added the disclaimer that now reliable sources must be quoted. I also started working on sources, from the bottom, before I got bored...
Couple questions - Have found two conflicting sources on Peter Steele's height, celebheights.com states 6'6.25" and personal interviews state 6'7" - which should be considered valid and how does one cite the source (my last edit was removed for being uncited, so I would like to know the preferred method of citing in this article)? --fauxcouture<T> 01:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I'd go with the interview because a quote is always better than an educated guess. As for how, you just paste the link in and put square brackets [] around it. HamishMacBeth 18:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Deleted

  • Roger Waters - sourced as 6'2
  • Ian Walker - sourced as 6'2
  • Daniel Tosh - nn
  • David Thewlis - sourced as 6'3
  • Henry Simmons -nn?


HamishMacBeth 17:28, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Cool, good work. I'll try and do some myself.(Halbared 20:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC))

Soz Bertie, I guess we were editing at the ame time!;o)(Halbared 12:49, 6 September 2006 (UTC))

[edit] John Aasen

Although he claimed his height to be 8'9", and that's what this article says, an external link to a photo of him says he was more likely 7'. I went to that link, and he sure as Hell does not look 8'9"! Therefore, I think he should be listed under 7'. User:Gmeric13@aol.com

[edit] 6 ft 3 in

the list should start with 6 ft 3 in

[edit] Latest update

Deleted

  • Andrew Sheridan - nn
  • Michael Rapaport - sourced as 6'3
  • Silkk Tha Shocker - nn
  • Greg Rudeski - not good enough to be notable?
  • Randy Quaid - nn
  • Jarad Padalecki - who?!
  • Craig T. Nelson -nn

HamishMacBeth 12:56, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I pretty much agree there.Halbared 14:34, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

<<< Also Vicente FOx ,the mexican president is only 6´6 with his 4 in. boots on¡¡¡¡¡ he´s actually half inch less than 6´2.

[edit] Tall Club

In order to join tall clubs (I remember hearing about this in high school because the teachers always announced scholarships and such, and the tall club was giving out one), the minumum height for girls/women is 5' 10" and the minimum height for boys/men is 6' 2". Maybe we should go with those heights or ones close to them. Stephe1987 06:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 6 ft 5 in

why is 6' 5" 196 cm and not 195 cm? So many guys, who stand 6' 5" in height, can't be 196 cm.

[edit] Conrad Goode

Please, create this article. Conrad Goode is a great actor. He is just a newby.

[edit] Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson

I've added him to the list of famous tall men as 6' 4". Please don't remove him.

[edit] Victor Williams

I added Victor Williams as 6 ft 6 in to the list of famous tall men. 6' 6" is his real height, I also have better sources about his height. In King of Queens Victor Williams also looks exactly 1 inch taller than Lou Ferrigno. So please, don't remove him. Thanks.

Please see WP:CITE (and WP:RS) on how to add a citation for this person. --Yamla 17:10, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Latest update

Did a bit more;

  • Dieter Zetsche - can't find a source
  • Nick Valensi - can't find a source
  • Lawrie Sanchez - can't find a source
  • Marat Safin - nn?
  • Kevin Pieterson - nn? He's not the best player in the team by a long shot.
  • Kevin Nealon -nn?
  • Brian McKnight - sourced as 6'3

Not done any of the American sports players because I have no idea if they're notable or not. HamishMacBeth 14:17, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A suggestion

This list has some similarities to a featured list I created, List of notable brain tumor patients, so perhaps some of the editing decisions that worked for that list can resolve the dispute here.

  1. What's notable enough for inclusion? Any person who passes WP:BIO.
  2. What verification is appropriate? All entries should be attributed to a reliable source. Editors may want to keep worklists for names that probably deserve a place but haven't been verified yet.

Please discuss changes with other editors on the talk page and sign your posts. Regards, Durova 18:47, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Without wanting to sound rude, this is pretty much what was implemented after the proposed deletion failed, and a number of people, me included, have been trying to enforce since, with not much success. I've been finding sources from the bottom of the list, and for those whom I can't find a source, adding [citation needed]; if I deleted any, I posted their names here, but nobody seemed bothered so I stopped. With reference to WP:BIO, which I agree we should be following to a point, but that suggest adding anybody who has competed in any professional sport/league etc, which could mean any wrestler, any basketball player, and any American football player, which would be ridiculous. As the talk page is rarely read, and the 'rules' are clearly visible when you edit the page, I'm not sure what else can be done. Cheers, HamishMacBeth 12:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, the featured list divides people by profession. The standards for this list might change by profession. Clint Eastwood is unusually tall for an actor, but wouldn't be at all special in basketball. You might weight the sports list toward athletes who were tall for their position, such as Magic Johnson who was only kind of tall for a basketball player, but extraordinarily tall for a point guard (they're usually more like 6' instead of 6'9"). I suggest absolute rankings for people over 7' tall and a more flexible professional breakdown for men who are 6'4" to 6'11", adding comments as appropriate. Durova 18:28, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Units

Any objections if I put the metric units most of the world uses first? No data will be lost. --Guinnog 18:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid I object, most of the world doesn't use metric. HamishMacBeth 14:13, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Most of the world does use metric - in fact almost all of the world does. But it doesn't really hurt if U.S. Imperial units come first, and in this instance, the categories are arbitrarily defined on the basis of inches, having metric first wouldn't make much sense. - Matthew238 01:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Most of the world definitely does use metric. I take your point Matthew, but I still feel this article would be better done in international units. I won't change it until we can get some sort of consensus here. --Guinnog 11:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Every nation on the Earth bar the US and one other nation (which doesn't have official units) has the Metric (French) system as the official measurements of their nation as opposed to the Imperial (British system). Perhaps it would make more sense for the English wiki to have metric first? I'll wait for the vote first though before I fully make my mind up.Halbared 10:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
The non-metric units completely confuse me. Please use normal, internationally accepted, metric units. – gpvos (talk) 12:19, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

(deindent) I don't think we need a vote. Unless some good argument is made for keeping it as it is in the next 24 hours, I think we can change to international units. --Guinnog 21:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

So why hasn't it been done yet? It's official WP policy to use standard units, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Units of measurement: If for some reason the choice of units is arbitrary, choose SI units as the main unit, with other units in parentheses. For subjects dealing with the United States, it might be more appropriate to use U.S. measurements first, i.e. mile, foot, U.S. gallon. I fail to see why a list of tallest men should be USA-centric.--87.162.65.25 21:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

You are quite right to chide me. I thought I would hold off until the AfD was done with. Anyway, I've done it now and I hope you'll agree it looks a lot better now. --Guinnog 05:32, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Metric also needed on the list of tall women, if anyone's up to it. — coelacan talk — 03:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Latest update

Removed these:

HamishMacBeth 14:13, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Moved a couple and removed these:

HamishMacBeth 17:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Rm:

  • Mario Ančić - nn, aren't all tennis players pretty tall?
    • I don't think so. The other problem is by that logic almost all NBA members should be removed.--T. Anthony 08:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Craig Anton - nn?
    • He's kind of B-list, but I think he is fairly recognizeable. Whether his height is notable I don't know.--T. Anthony 08:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Sebastian Bach - said he's 6'3
  • Raymond Burr - found nothing to suggest he was anywhere near 6'5
  • Kurt Fuller - nn
  • Stephen Harmison - nn?

HamishMacBeth 18:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Admins

Is there an administrator who is concerned for the List of famous tall men? Sergeant Gerzi 19:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 6 ft 3 in (191 cm)

The List of famous tall men should start with 6' 3" because there are also enough tall celebrities like Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson who are under 6' 4" in height. Sergeant Gerzi 15:49, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


What about Nathan Jones the wrestler at 6' 10"?

[edit] Semi-protected

This page has been semi-protected due to anonymous vandalism. DurovaCharge! 16:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Where is Shawn Bradley?

Xi Shun has been moved to Bao Xishun, please change the name/wikilink.

[edit] Nicky Wire

Nicky Wire of the Manic Street Preachers is at least 6ft 4, and quite a bit taller than Fidel Castro listed here as 6ft 4 (photos of the Manics meeting Castro in Cuba prove it). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anothercolour (talk • contribs) 21:27, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Phil Hellmuth

I believe he ought to be added to the list, as he is 6ft 6.

[edit] Bolaji Badejo

I have found links for him to be 6 ft 10 in or 7 ft 2 in...there seem to be more of him at the latter.Halbared 16:48, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

I have been adding sources, I forgot that IMDB is not a great source. I'll leave them until I (or someone else) has completed the list.Halbared 14:44, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Osama bin Laden

Just curious, why was terrorist removed after al-qaeda founder after osama bin laden? Strunke 05:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)strunke

My fault I think. I have placed an acurate description of him in the list now. I know he has claimed responsibility for terrorist acts (those claims themselves are in dispute) but I think this is more accurate until (if ever) he is tried in a court of law. I took the description from his page.Halbared 13:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Primo Carnera

A lot of reliable sources have Primo Carnera at just over 6 ft 5 in. The site I posted is one and the Encyclopedia Britannica is another http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article-9020406/Primo-Carnera. AS well as http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=012086 Halbared 09:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Football players

Removed with good reason, Luca Toni for one, many sites disagree on his height, he could be as low as 185 cm. [1]Halbared 10:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

it's a mistake, because if you see in italy team photos he's clearly over 190. he's taller than materazzi, who is 193, so he should be 194 at least..
That is going off estimations, and that is something that we cannot do.That's why some others have been removed, we cannot estimate this but go off citations.Halbared 08:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Looked at some sources he ranges from 185 to 195 cm. Too many variations on this.Halbared 14:37, 19 January 2007 (UTC) Examples are http://www.soccerphile.com/soccerphile/teams/italy-06.html

http://www.goal.com/en-us/Giocatore.aspx?IdPersona=3005

http://www.123football.com/players/t/luca-toni/index.htm

http://football2006.bluehyppo.com/roster.asp?teamname=ITA

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=soc-wc/2006/bio.aspx?pid=1709Halbared 08:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=14104&cc=3436 http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/w/player/217882_TONI_Luca.html http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/worldcup/2006/players/16931/ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2295356/bio http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/worldcup/player?statsId=16931 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/shared/bsp/hi/football/statistics/players/internationals/t/toni_229987.stm DXRAW 01:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

So he has many sources that show a wide range of heights, it doesn't matter how many there are, the point is that there are a lot of differeing ones. With so much conflict and the list so huge as it is, best he stays offHalbared 09:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] cutoff too low

The 193cm list is huge! And that really isn't so tall. The cutoff should be raised to 196cm. 193cm is just way too easy to add another two hundred people to. — coelacan talk — 03:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] start with 6' 4"

This article has to start with 6' 4" because this is my request and I'm 6' 4" myself. There are several users like RCS who let this page with over 6' 4" starting and I'm totally unsatisfied with it because 6' 4" is also damn tall. Please accept my desire and don't change this any more. Thanks.

Get a life. Your request is damn worthless. RCS 16:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Start with 6' 5"

  • I' m for it. RCS 18:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I don't see that consensus is established for this rather extreme change. I'm reverting.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 18:58, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
So you are reverting for the sake of reverting, aren't you ? What's on your mind ? RCS 07:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
  • 6'5", 196 cm, is as short as this list should bother with. The addition of 6'4" men would have no forseeable end; there are just too many of them. — coelacan talk — 21:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
  • If this is going to turn into a vote, I would go with 6 ft 5 in.Halbared 08:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm also for it that the list of famous tall men should start with 6' 5" because I'm 6' 5" myself and I would be unsatisfied if this list would start over 6' 5". Morris Munroe 22:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why remove "famous" from article title

How was consensus established to change the name of this list from "List of famous tall men" to "List of very tall men"? My view is that this ill-advised change will only encourage editors to add names of people who are not famous or notable--especially if they take the title literally (i.e., that this article aims to be a complete list of all tall men).--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 18:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

We never use "famous" or "notable" in Wikipedia article titles anymore. See WP:WEASEL WP:PEACOCK. Everyone on Wikipedia should be notable. If they're not notable, then they shouldn't have an article. If they're notable enough to have an article, then they can be on this list. "Notable" and "famous" thus becomes redundant across the encyclopedia. — coelacan talk — 21:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Your logic that everyone covered by Wikipedia can be presumed to be notable, while sensible, has not failed to convince throngs of people from adding the names of little-known people. The central problem is that there are a great many tall men who, though they meet the minimum requirements spelled out in WP:BIO, are not nearly as famous or widely-known as the people who remain on this list. If you encourage the assumption that this list welcomes all notable tall men and that having a wikipedia article = being notable, that will give implicit approval to add anyone who has an article to this list. So, in order to keep this list from ballooning, we should explicitly state in the artcile tilte that this list only covers widely-known figures.
Also, I was wondering what any of this has to do with WP:WEASEL, but you answered my question. If the name of the article were List of famous men who some (unamed) people believe may be tall, that would be weaselly.
In short, if you feel that the word "famous" violates a WP "Guideline," then how do you propose conveying the idea that this list is not meant to be close to comprehensive?--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 21:32, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I changed WEASEL to WP:PEACOCK, apparently while you were replying, because I realized I had the wrong animal. Anyway, if there are people who have Wikipedia articles who are not notable enough to have those articles, this is not the place to fight that. Go to their articles and nominate them for WP:AFD. I see no reason why this list should not be comprehensive with regards to people who are actually notable enough to be on Wikipedia and survive AFD. And I see no other way besides WP:BIO of deciding who is "famous" enough to be on this list. — coelacan talk — 23:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Good grief! If I'm understanding you correctly, we'd all better start adding every basketball player and pro wrestler who has an article on this encyclopedia, depite the fact that the overwhelming consensus of those who care about this artcle is to leave all but the most famous figures off this list. You're asking for disaster--this list has come a long way in the past 6 months or so; you're proposing that we take 12 steps backward. --The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 23:51, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't think this list should exist at all, but if it does, I see no valid reason for excluding someone just because they play professional sports. — coelacan talk — 23:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
The point is not to exclude people because of their occupation--the point is that if we allow inclusion of every basketball player (and other occupations toward which extremely tall people gravitate), all the relatively obscure names will needlessly crowd out the more notable ones, making this list infitely less readable and less interesting. You're not going to find a lot of support for idea here. See what happens if you start adding names Amir Johnson and Mel Turpin. People will revert your additions. And, no, I'm not suggesting that Dinner Bell Mel doesn't meet WP:BIO standards; I'm just saying that consensus has been to keep the non-household names of this list. It almost seems, since you state that this article should not "exist at all," you therefore don't mind degrading the quality of the list as much as possible so that the next afd will be succssful. I hope this is not what you're doing, so I will try to assume good faith, but if your ultimate goal is the obliteration of this list (which has survived several afds), then you'd be guilty disrupting the wp community to prove a point (namely that this artlcie shouldn't exist). --The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 00:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
You needn't worry, I'm not doing that. I haven't added anyone to this page and I don't intend to. And I did some work to improve the historical section, tracking down the location of the Josephus quote. I don't have the energy to bother adding five hundred not-very-tall people to the under-6'5" part of the list. I'm just saying that if someone came along and did that, you'd really have no policy-grounded basis for stopping them. If you want to prevent degradation of the list, you really ought to limit the height cutoff to those heights that are actually notable (6'4" is definitely not), rather than trying to argue that any given person isn't notable enough to belong here. I assure you that Martti Talvela is no "household name", but I can't see any legitimate argument for removing him. Anyway, I'm fairly well done with this discussion. Per WP:PEACOCK, "famous" or "notable" does not belong in the article name. Not much more to say. — coelacan talk — 03:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I would like to see the famous bit put back, or notable to be added. I was thinking of writing some thoughts on the criteria. A list of tall men as said above would seem to suggest comprehensive. It's difficult as it is to stop nn people being added.Halbared 08:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Semi-OT : Martti Talvela is a household names for opera-fans. He was a greatly gifted and world-renowned singer, as any googling will show you. RCS 08:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
"Famous" cannot come back. It is an explicit violation of policy, specifically WP:NAME#Lists. Your personal desire does not trump policy. — coelacan talk — 08:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Same goes for "notable", by the way. — coelacan talk — 09:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
It is a coincidence then that your actions predate a another afd?Halbared 12:59, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Very tall" instead of plain "tall"

For the last 40 years, there have been more and more men of 193 cm. They are tall, of course, but not exceptionnaly tall as they would have been two generations before. Proof is the ever increasing number of names in that portion of the list. When you have so many 6ft 4 people, being 6ft 4 isn't remarkable any more. On the other hand, because it is still tall and we don't want to discriminate, we put it clearly that the people in this list are very tall, even by Clint Eastwood's standards. I think this is reasonable. RCS 19:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Other than one lone remark by User:Coelacan, there is no evidence of this being discussed, much less a consensus being drawn. The disagreement merits further discussion. Stop reverting.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 20:06, 19 January 2007 (UTC)~
Same goes for you, i'm afraid.You'vre popped in for no good reason to defend an IP with an inferiority complex (see above). This is doing us a great service ! RCS 07:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I removed 6 foot 4 people for a time, but admittedly I'm uncertain in some respects. What you say about history makes me think they were notably tall in earlier eras. Therefore excluding them entirely seems inaccurate in certain cases. However when you include them all it does put the length on list warning. Therefore it seems to me that 6'4/193 cm men should be limited to those who were born before 1946 as the post-war era of increased prosperitym and greater treatment of childhood disease, is what caused height to really grow in many nations. A historical note can be added to that section to explain that. Although those who are 193 cm and from the Third World should also stay for similar reasons. Not sure what note should explain that element.--T. Anthony 23:40, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
The question of history is an interesting one, but I don't think we solve anything by lowering the bar for modern humans, or for making this list longer for pre-moderns. "In 1750, the average height of adult males in England, the world’s most economically advanced nation, was 5 feet, five inches, and even that exceeded averages in France and Norway."[2] So if we want to talk about tall people in 1750, we would have to lower the bar here to something like 5'10". We're not going to do that. And I think` we're running ourselves into unnecessary complication. — coelacan talk — 23:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] IMDB

Some of these IMDB references need to be replaced with something credible. I'll do Galbraith, but that's all.--T. Anthony 15:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Well done on getting rid of them!Halbared 08:31, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. As you can tell I did end up doing more than Galbraith. In several cases though IMDB was all I could find. Another I feel good about is separating out basketball players and having a different standard for them. I did worry that starting at 6 ft 7 inches is too restrictive, Christopher Lee and Michael Clarke Duncan no longer make the cut, but then I noticed there are people at the deletion discussion who feel it is still not restrictive enough. I'm not sure what country on Earth has 6 ft 7 within normal range for a man, is Ed de Goeij considered within normal range in the Netherlands, but possibly they're just arguing against the concept.--T. Anthony 00:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Misguided sub-grouping of basketball players

Grouping all basketball players at the end with an arbitrary, extreme cut-off point of 7'3" is silly. It encourages the addition of obscure, easily forgotten players and prevents the inclusion of figures who are even well-known outside of the sports world like Wilt Chamberlain and Shaquille O'Neal and Michael Jordan. How was consensus for this change achieved?--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 14:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW, yes I get it--we don't want this list to overflow with minor sports figures few have ever heard of. However, some of the most recognizable tall men in the world happen to be ball players; we should include them if we're including other notable figures. No WP policy says the construction of an article has to be scientific (i.e., no content is allowed unless it conforms to mathematical, rigorous criteria)--the content just has to verifiable and notable.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 14:49, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I disagree, but then again I created it. Treating basketball players separately seems completely logical to me and deals with one of the most common complaints about the list. Still as there was no concensus on the matter I'll remove it at a later point. (I'm a bit ill at the moment)--T. Anthony 18:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm sicker than I thought and I'm leaving for a bit. Others will have to fix it or decide. I'm very sorry, but it can't be help.--T. Anthony 19:05, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I agree it's a common (and valid) complaint, but I don't care for your solution, which admittedly filters out a large number of excessive basketballers but--in so doing--cuts out some of the most notable tall men on the planet (again, I'm referring to those under 7'3" athletes who are regognized beyond the fan-circles of their sport). Get well soon, T.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 19:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I rested a bit, but still don't feel much like work. However I wonder if I might suggest something. What if we keep the basketball section, but lower its threshhold to 6 ft 10? That will still leave Jordan out, sorry to say, but the others would go in. My only problem is I don't have a nifty site to justify starting at 6 ft 10 as I did with the "tallest basketball players" site.--T. Anthony 23:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I was hoping we could filter the basketball players using a qualitative rather than quantitative criterion. Rather than specifying a separate minimum height for basketball players, I would rather see a focus on trying to include only the most noteworthy ball players, regardless of their height (as long as it meets the general minimum threshold). Some might compliain that such a method is too subjective (how do we decide who belongs on the list and who doesn't?), but you could even pin it to a specific published list of ball players--perhaps the NBA's 50 Greatest, or people who have earned multiple MVP awards, or people who have entered the Hall of Fame--or something even stricter than that. That way we can limit it to the most famous basketball players only.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 13:56, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
By the way, there are a great deal of forgettable basketballers who stood 6'10" and above. Some of my favorites: Yinka Dare, Jerome James, Shawn Bradley (already on the list but probably shouldn't be), Kevin Duckworth, Martynas Andriuškevičius and the aforementioned Mel Turpin. As much fondness I have for the gangly and portly centers of yore, I would not want to see any of them within miles of this list. --The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 17:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
True, but there's a few who were so very tall (Suleiman Ali Nashnush or Manute Bol spring to mind) I'd kind of like them in just because they're among the tallest people ever. Yasutaka Okayama is the tallest Japanese person, of any kind, I've been able to find but he didn't ever play professionally. Otherwise I could see limiting to maybe those in the List of members of the Basketball Hall of Fame. Even then though I feel like the standard should be slightly higher than in the general list or this just becomes a bit redundant to a list of great basketball players.--T. Anthony 22:56, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 197 cm is NOT 6ft 6in

It is exactly 6ft 5.56in : [3]. RCS 16:47, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] People with varying heights

I know that Paul 'Big Show' Wight's height is not certain, obviously he's above 6'4 so he qualifies to be on the list but estimates vary from 6'9 to 7'0, it's believed his weight may have caused him to shrink two or even three inches.

Also Andre the Giant could have been anything between 6'10 and 7'4, so should there be a category for people we know are above 6'4 but don't have a confirmed exact height for?

82.3.92.4 13:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moratorium on DRV requests

I fully support User:Sandstein's suggestion to allow 6 months before attempting another deletion request. Do others agree?--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 07:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Future direction of the article

This article has been (one way or another) the subject of over 5 AfDs. Even if it survives DRV (see WP:DRV for February 12), I suspect it won't be long before it's put up for AfD again. So, in light of this, I propose that we consider the direction this article should take. We could leave its focus as is or change it (see below). I should note that I am not a previous contributor to this article, but am willing to become one to carry out consensus changes.

Please comment as to what you think should be done to the article (and why)--any ideas are welcome. Let's try to reach some consensus, even if that is to leave its focus as it is and simply work on improving it.

[edit] Proposed refocusing

In the most recent AfD, three proposals for refocusing the article arose. They involved renaming and subsequently refocusing the article to:

  1. List of the tallest men
  2. List of men notable for their tallness
  3. List of men notable for their height -- this would incorporate List of short men as well.

I am copying below part of the text of a brief discussion between myself and User:Rossami. The result of the discussion was a draft "criteria for inclusion" for either #3 above (though it could be easily fitted to #2 as well).

“

This is a list of men who are notable for their height. It is limited to men who:

  1. are notable only for being extremely tall or short (e.g., Robert Pershing Wadlow); or
  2. are otherwise notable, but whose height (either tall or short) has been noted as directly relevant to (e.g., Yao Ming) or contributing (e.g., Peter the Great) to their notability.
Notability here is defined as an extension of WP:Notability. In order for someone to get on the list, their height (not they themselves) has to be mentioned in "multiple reliable published works, whose sources are independent of the subject itself" (I think the non-trivial condition should be loosened here for the 2nd category of men--everyone recognizes that Yao Ming's height is directly relevant to his notability as a basketball star, but I think it would be too much to expect that there be published works out there that discuss only his height).
 ”

[edit] Discussion

Please comment starting here. Thank you, Black Falcon 19:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that perhaps this article should be those tall men that have achieved notability in some way in life through their great height. The giants who are famous for being giants. Like many of the people at the top of the list. These people have come to prominence through their height and their height alone, not just because they are sports stars or what have you. A secondary case may be made for people who have achieved notability in their field despite their height? Height for actors is traditionally a hindrance, thought someone like James Cromwell has made it, he stands out figuratively and literally.Halbared 19:22, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] OR

The issue is the lack of objective criteria. The references I clicked on verify the height of the people, not the fact that they are notable for being tall. In addition, many of them don't look like reliable sources - there's no obvious way to tell what the basis for the claim on the websites may be. This is the essence of original research - using available information (height of the people) to create new information (notable for being tall) based on a paediatric definition of "tall stature" (2.5-3 sd above mean), with an extra 6 cm added for good measure. Guettarda 05:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Start with 6' 5"

Who has removed the 6' 5" page? 6' 5" is also pretty damn tall! MM 15:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Player"... of what?

Several people are listed on this page as being a "player". I presume they are all basketball players rather than some other sport but since we are not all NBA experts, especially readers from outside the USA, can this be clarified. 87.112.69.28 01:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

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