Talk:List of symphonies by key

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[edit] Length

This page is ginormous. Is it possible to split it up into one page for each key? Isopropyl 04:54, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I have thought about breaking this article into a series of disambiguation pages (for example, to distinguish between the numerous examples of symphonies in C major which have dedicated articles in Wikipedia). But a person wishing to research the tonality of the classical symphony might find it more convenient to have the symphonies available in a list on one page. Defrosted 23:53, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I understand the convenience aspect, but I believe that a researcher would find several pages organized in a clear manner much more useful than one (exceedingly) large page. Isopropyl 23:57, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Propose we split this page up a little. How are things in music usually divided? Would it make more sense to A-D, E-G, or major-minor? I have no musical knowledge. Isopropyl 18:36, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Does this list make sense??

Many symphonies have 4 movements that are not all in the same key. Any clarification?? Georgia guy 20:40, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, commentary should be added to this list about the relationship between musical key and symphonic structure, although the main exposition should really belong to the main entry for symphony. The symphonies in this list have been sorted according to the nominal key in their titles (e.g., Beethoven's Fifth is Symphony No. 5 in C minor, op. 67). You have rightly observed that composers (luckily) do not write every movement of their symphonies in the same key; they modulate, even within an individual movement, to shape the structure of the piece as well as to leaven our interest. Although a symphony may begin in the nominal key and may not finish in or even return to it after the first movement, the nominal key remains important for establishing harmonic bearings and influences the choice of destination key as well as the route that is taken to reach it. The most common changes of key involve jumping from the original tonic to the dominant or subdominant, or switching between relative minor and relative major keys. Modulation to distantly related keys can be achieved smoothly through a gradual succession of related keys, such as through the circle of fifths.

Many composers, especially in the Romantic period, associated certain keys with specific emotional content and their symphonies traced the heroic journey from tempestuous beginnings, written in a sad minor key, through to the triumphant finales that typically appeared in the parallel major key of the nominal minor. For instance: Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 5 begins with and bears the titular key of E minor. After moving through the related keys of D major and then A major in the next two movements, the symphony ends exuberantly in E major, the parallel of E minor [1].

Hope this explanation helps. (My music theory needs much improvement). Defrosted 23:53, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Famous?

Was going to include a few works- the Myaskovsky 17, for G sharp minor, for example, but I see that this is supposed to be a list of famous works. Fair enough. The Dukas, the Dvorak 2nd, the Haydn 46, the Prokofiev 2nd-4th and 7th are debatable (the Prokofiev 2nd-4th and 6th and 7th are a big drop in -popularity- and recognition below the 1st and 5th, as are quite a few of the symphonies listed, and the Dukas is practically obscure, though not so much so as the Myaskovsky.) Schissel | Sound the Note! 03:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I added the Haydn 46. I admit it is obscure, but it felt that each key needed at least one representative. (Shostakovich 2 is B flat by allmusic.com and amazon.com -- though I haven't seen what the actual score says). I think that explains some of the other obscure choices for the more obscure keys as well. I think this list used to be more 'complete' rather than 'famous', but it got cluttered with the dozens of symphonies in C and D that someone decided to pare it down. It doesn't matter to me which direction this page goes (though it might get unwieldy listing a dozen Haydn symphonies each for C, D & G). DavidRF 06:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Hrm. As to Shostakovich sym 2, www.artistindex.de/artist/257193/EN/3 gives H-dur, as does http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Dmitrijewitsch_Schostakowitsch (an den Oktober in H-dur). (Of course, practically all the works that I know on the list, I either don't know or both like and find notable- those are just different questions than the ones that I thought were on the table. But yes, thanks for the clarification. The Haydn 46 is on the radio enough- or has been; I don't know where that's going... that a "typical classical radio listener" can say that they've heard it several times, the Dukas and Korngold less so- though perhaps also the Glazunov 4 and 5 also, lately. (And Glazunov 1- once his most famous symphony- gives an extra E major to that hardly over-populated category, as would a symphony of Monn's if it were more often played, of course, Haydn 29 (1765) and Schubert 7 likewise. And then there's Rott's! (Ok, and several others...))

Suggestion:

add very well-known symphonies to this page to show the distribution (F major more common than that surely?), and symphonies (a long list, not just the few that show up in A minor, say, but relatively notable ones that have had 2 or 3 recordings or enough mentions in reference works) in individual pages eg List of symphonies in A minor &cie. Schissel | Sound the Note! 06:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

(hrm. It's probably true that the most famous Haydn C minor symphony is no. 95... by a nose, since that one isn't very well-known either, I think... *opens window and calls for more performances of no. 52*) Schissel | Sound the Note! 01:52, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Plus, as influential and important as Haydn 39 is, his most "famous" G minor symphony is almost surely "The Hen" (which is certainly fun, but I quickly forget the stormy beginning once the clucking starts). Yes, its going to be tough to maintain this page if its only 'famous' symphonies. Since the "ginormous" comment above motivated paring down the page, someone went back and (re-)added early Dvorak and non-organ Saint Saens, lesser Shostakovich as well as stuff like Mozart 16 and 20. I'm leaning towards going back to complete, but how would we make the page more navigable? DavidRF 13:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)