Talk:List of species in fantasy fiction

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on January 13, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

A quick Google for "Ka'Dalun -wikipedia" reveals that this is likely to derive from the Artemis Fowl books: can anyone confirm? --Phil | Talk 10:42, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

Sigh, this page needs a serious cleanup. I found Mashadar and Machin Shin in the list. Chtulhu is there too and I don't think that he is a species. I have deleted all three of them. And several of the general entries that are used in a lot of fantasy litterature is credited to a specific fnatasy universe. And then there are lots of things that I never have heard of without anything indicating from which book they are from. Jeltz 12:17, 2004 Nov 24 (UTC)

Somehting has to be done with this list but I don't know what. Jeltz 13:52, 2004 Nov 24 (UTC)

We should go through and verify that each entry is not BS. I think the cited work should be the fiction that introduced or popularized the species in fantasy. For example, the list cites Shadowbane for Half-Giant, which is obviously not the first mention of half-giants in fantasy. In that case, Dungeons & Dragons would be a better cite, or move it to List of species in folklore and mythology if it can be found in myth.
Perhaps we should go through each heading and use a special edit summary to signify that it's been cleaned up, like:
/* A */ verified
--Mrwojo 16:32, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Should this list include mythological species or not? Generally I think that they shouldn't be included, but if mythological races aren't included what about dragons, dwarves and elves? Jeltz 19:07, 2004 Nov 24 (UTC)
I'm thinking the mythological creatures should be removed, unless there's specifically a fictional work that popularized them. For example, trolls should probably be excluded, because they date back to Scandinavian folklore, not D&D or Warcraft or anything.
--Nichenbach 05:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Wheel of Time

There are a lot of entries about creatures from The Wheel of Time, and I don't think that many of them deserve to be listed. Some are just mentioned once and nothing other is known about them than their name. This list can't mention every damn made up creature. I haven't read the latest book in the series yet but I don't think that this is any problem.

WoT-creatures that I found in the list.

Of these I think that Trolloc, Myrdraal, Darkhound and Ogier are the most important ones. I think that I will just remove all those that just are mentioned once from this lsit, but what about the others? - Jeltz 19:37, 2004 Nov 24 (UTC)

I'd just remove all of the red links except trolloc and gholam and any other species equally notable as the bluelinked articles (I stopped reading the series around book six and never got into any of the supplemental material). -Sean Curtin 01:17, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)
I have removed all creatures that are of no importance at all. That just exists in name. Jeltz 11:39, 2004 Nov 25 (UTC)
Now I have removed all the Seanchan beasts and minor shadowspawn. I think that that is best so people later can readd them if there are anything interesting to write. Jeltz 19:25, 2004 Nov 29 (UTC)
Now it's just Aelfinn and Eelfinn that might not belong on this list. Jeltz 20:28, 2004 Nov 29 (UTC)

[edit] Dragonball Z

I thought Dragonball Z is science fiction and that (most of?) the species listed are aliens? Perhaps list of aliens would be a more appropriate place for them?

defenitely not science fiction. i dont know what all those manga shite would be...an odd mutilation of fantasy i guess, but dragonball z has little science fiction. aliens, yes, but based on extrapsychic abilities rather then extratechnology.--Lygophile 03:29, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Early Dragonball was based more closely on Chinese fable (or fantasy) with several science fiction items thrown in, but from Dragonball Z, it became more of science fiction with magical items thrown in. However, the key item throughout the series, Dragonballs are magical items with no technological explanation. Also, the important plot line of being brought back from death cannot be done by anything but Dragonballs makes it a fantasy. --Revth 08:53, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category?

On another note, this list is quite crufty, arbitrary, and possibly mostly inaccurate. It would be better handled by just the category system (Category:Fictional species). --Mrwojo 20:56, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • I don't know. My idea for how to use this list was to have some of the most important fictional races on this list, but there have been several people that just have added every race they could think of from one fantasy universe. There are also currently mythological, science fiction (I suspect) and real races on this list. I can't decide on what should be done with this list. It either needs cleanup or deletion. Jeltz talk 21:08, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
My thoughts exactly. My reasoning on the category system is that experts for each individual article will have a better understanding of what kind of species it is. Recently, I noticed on another "List of X" that some of the articles listed did not consider themselves an "X" and were more accurately categorized. --Mrwojo 22:22, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Humans as a species

Someone removed the entry under Humans under category H. I find this really annoying since Humans are a species known in many fantasy fiction, the user thinks that it shouldn't be there because it saying that Humans are fictional otherwise.

That correction in actual fact is wrong...the article is titled 'List of Species IN FANTASY FICTION and that means that whether the race appears in fantasy fiction or not...They are still allowed in the list.

What's the point of a list of species in fantasy fiction if it includes all real species and all fantasy species? I guess a move to List of fictional species in fantasy is necessary... though I'm beginning to prefer deletion. --Mrwojo 18:52, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
No, the correcting wasn't wrong. You don't agree with it but it isn't "wrong". We just have differnt oppinions of what species belong in this list. I don't think that mythological or real species belong here. Just species that are unique to fantasy fiction. If we included everything wouldn't this list be pretty much useless? Jeltz talk 19:07, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I've removed human and several species from real-world folklore from the list, and added a suggestion that species that exist or have been thought to exist can be found elsewhere. -Sean Curtin 01:15, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)
thats a rather vague distinction though. most fictional characters in fantasy are imported directly out of folklore, which are largely based on real encouters with existing other races (or deseased people, such as zombies and possibly vampires). elves would likely have been native americans, and orcs and the like (bush)negros. --Lygophile 03:39, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elf

Why isn't Elf in this list? I'd edit, but it seems so surprising to be missing that I'm guessing there's a good reason. Ben Arnold 01:07, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think elf isn't in the list to avoid overlap with List of species in folklore and mythology, since elves/elfs arent really atributable to any one source (Tolkien popularized them but didnt invent them). there's now a paragraph above the list stating something to that effect. Nateji77 07:13, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Edge Chronicles

Just so nobody shouts at me, I'll warn you here: I'm gonna add a few species from The Edge Chronicles, if that's OK. I'm making a list of Animals of the Edge Chronicles anyway.--Ninty 21:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] character races only

why do I see gelatinous cube listed in here? there's no way one could be either a player-character or NPC. At most, it could be a mount, but a gelainous cube is purely an unintelligent monster to be fought. If we listed every single monster in the most common fantasy settings, then what would be the point of this article? Then it would become a beastiary, which this is not. Therefore, I'm going to go ahead and remove anything that has no chance of being any sort of character instead of monster. Blueaster 19:42, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About Elves...

Elfs in traditional folktales and mythology might not have a place in this list, but the Elves invented by Tolkien, popularized by Dungeons and Dragons, and then spread throughout the entire industry of RPGs are a staple of modern fantasy fiction and should be included in this list. Blueaster 19:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

elves actually were not invented by tolkien, by his own claim. the apendices mention that he hated shakespears elfs which he invented, and claims that the 'mansize' elves he uses existed prior to them.--Lygophile 03:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] suggested guidelines

About the refusing to list races that come from mythology or folktales: We have to realize that many authors adapt existing names and words to name the elements of their own worlds. Many different races from different stories all share the same name. For example, in Elfquest, elfs are short aliens who live in tribes in the world of two moons and have 8 fingers. In Harry Potter, elfs are fairy- or goblin-like slaves. In Dungeons and Dragons, elves are shorter than humans, have angular faces, and meditate in place of sleep. In LOTR, they live forever.


Dungeons and Dragons: Races to be placed here would be the basic races given in the Player's Handbook, prominent subraces such as drow and deep gnomes, orcs and goblinoids, and any humanoids or outsiders or mixes that seem relatvively easy to integrate into a campaign as Player-Characters

Harry Potter: I'm suprised that "hippogriph" was listed as a race here... I thought that the difference between magical beasts and people was pretty clear-cut within the Harry Potter universe... I think it was spelled out in that kinda official paperback that's named after one of the magical creatures textbooks in the stories... Just anything that seems intelligent enough such as goblins, house elfs (maybe), mermaids, giants, etc.... Although centaurs are listed as magical beasts becaue they chose to be considered that way.

It would be a good idea to show where there's overlap and usage of the same races in different settings....

Also, we need to have more literary examples instead of games... unless we want to change this into "List of species in Fantasy Games"Blueaster 20:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Races lead to the game.

I notice that when you click on a race of species from a game it leads you directly to the game.Anker99 00:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Not all species have enough background information and/or lore to form a separate article even if that particular species is a very central character in the work of fiction. I wouldn't worry about this unless it leads you to a completely unrelated article.--Revth 08:02, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree the games are of too big influence in this section. For example Troll and Dwarf lead to Warcraft descriptions, while I remember they are troll in Guild Wars, Dungeons and dragoons etc... I propose that some of the article are called i.e. Troll (Mixed) and there you could write about Trolls in folklore and difference between trolls in games litterature... Unless the creature is widely spread you keep it to its "game" (by "game" i reffer to books, systems and other things etc.) if it is widely spread you make mixed. If it isn't too common but appears in several "games" you make link to it in its article like Frost Worm could be linked with Siege Wurm from Guild wars or even Dune Worm, cause they bear the same behaviour and appearance. Belphegor 666 20:37, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the removals of Ben Standeven

he removed may thing in the list, cause he believes only the original source of any species should be mentioned. so he removed the mention of high elves and orcs occuring in warhammer, leaving only the mention of them occuring in the lord of the rings, as if tolkien created them. obviously he created none other species then the hobbits, so i dont think it has to be an original use of a species to mentioned as such, as that would leave this list almost empty. so we should revert his removals, but probably leave what he added. ill see how far ill get :P
sorry Ben. I have spoken 19:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

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