Talk:List of retired Atlantic hurricane names

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Contents

[edit] Template

There should be a {{Retired Atlantic hurricanes}}, similar to {{Category 5 Atlantic hurricanes}}. Jdorje 20:19, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

The list would be too long though - as of 2005, it will have at least 70 names! CrazyC83 21:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree. In theory, it is a good idea, but there's way too many. Maybe have them by deades, like there could be a Retired Atlantic hurricanes of the 1990's, which would include only Diana, Klaus, Bob, Andrew, Luis, Marilyn, Opal, Roxanne, Cesar, Fran, Hortense, Georges, Mitch, Floyd, and Lenny... 15 names. The Cat. 5 hurricanes has 28, and that is huge on its own. 2000's would have 13 (Keith, Allison, Iris, Michelle, Isidore, Lili, Fabian, Isabel, Juan, Charley, Frances, Ivan, Jeanne, and 2005's), 1980's would have 8 (Allen, Alicia, Elena, Gloria, Gilbert, Joan, and Hugo), 1970's would have 8 (Celia, Agnes, Fifi, Carmen, Eloise, Amelia, David, and Frederic), 1960's would have 11 (Donna, Carla, Hattie, Flora, Cleo, Dora, Hilda, Betsy, Inez, Beulah, and Camille), and 1950's would have 9 (Carol, Edna, Hazel, Connie, Diane, Ione, Janet, Audrey, and Gracie). Those numbers are a little more managable than around 70... Hurricanehink 21:18, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Retired Atlantic hurricanes
Carol Edna Hazel Connie
Diane Ione Janet Audrey
Gracie Donna Carla Hattie
Flora Cleo Dora Hilda
Betsy Inez Beulah Camille
Celia Agnes Carmen Fifi
Eloise Anita David Frederic
Allen Alicia Elena Gloria
Gilbert Joan Hugo Diana
Klaus Bob Andrew Luis
Marilyn Opal Roxanne Cesar
Fran Hortense Georges Mitch
Floyd Lenny Keith Allison
Iris Michelle Isidore Lili
Fabian Isabel Juan Charley
Frances Ivan Jeanne Dennis
Katrina Rita Stan Wilma
Main article: List of retired Atlantic hurricanes

Once you add the 2005 names (Dennis, Emily, Katrina, Rita, Stan and Wilma), the 2000s list will likely have 19 names - and there are still four hurricane seasons to get through! I'm sure there will be at least 30 names retired in the decade at this rate... CrazyC83 03:55, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Todo

The list is complete, but the text is nothing to write home about. Jdorje 20:19, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links

Every AHS season should have, in its retirement section under the XXXX storm names section: {{seealso|List of retired Atlantic hurricanes}}. — jdorje (talk) 00:36, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

See 2004 AHS as an example. — jdorje (talk) 00:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Colors

What is the reasoning for using landfall strength for the storm colors in the table? In my opinion it would be more appropriate to include the maximum storm strength here. Maximum storm strength is often more indicative of damage than landfall strength, since a weakening storm will in many cases do just as much damage as a full-strength one. Additionally, it avoids problems with questions of landfall - a storm may do damage without making landfall and often does damage while at a higher intensity than its landfall intensity. Hurricane Mitch is the best example of this, but someday there will probably be a storm retired that didn't make landfall at all. — jdorje (talk) 08:38, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

If the color thing stays the same, (with the whole landfall thing) and one didn't make landfall but caused enough significant damage to be retired, the background color would be the strength at it's closest approach to land. Hurricanes Iwa and Fabian are perfect examples. neither made landfall, both were retired. Cyclone1 02:40, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Colors for retired hurricanes

Rather than doing the color representing the strongest landfall, I changed it so the colors represented the storm at the strongest point. The previous system was a little weird, like having Mitch as a Cat. 1. To specify which ones made a Cat. 5 landfall, I put (Cat. 5) for the landfall locations. If this is not OK, you can change it, though I think it should be talked about first. Hurricanehink 17:22, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Let me get this straight...

Edna's Color is based on landfall. Dora's Color is based on Peak. So, whats the deal? Is t landfall or Peak? —Cyclone1 02:20, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, wait no itrs not!!! NEVER MIND!!! NEVER MIND!! I was wrong. I like this whole peak thing Better. Cyclone1 02:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2005 Names

What storm names do you think will be retired? Evan Robidoux 21:02, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

It's been discussed at many other places here. Dennis, Katrina, Rita and Wilma will certainly be retired. Emily and Stan will likely also be retired. I wouldn't expect any other names dropped though. CrazyC83 06:29, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
What about Ophelia? $1.6 billion storm. Maybe... Cyclone1 15:39, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Actually, in post-analysis, Ophelia was found to have caused only $70 million. Hurricanehink 15:46, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
That's correct. That number makes retirement highly unlikely based on its intensity and low death toll. I'd say Ophelia will be back in 2011. CrazyC83 21:21, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Ophelia will NOT be retired; the US is not requesting it and no one else would have a case to be made. Dennis is also being left to Cuba. No word on what the other countries' requests will be. Here is the site CrazyC83 04:53, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Here it is: Don, Katia, Rina, Sean, and Whitney. What a lack of imagination in the new names! However, looking to 2006, with "Kirk," I'm just hoping we don't all boldly go there. Mkieper 18:02, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Klaus?

Hey, whats up with Klaus? I have several questions about this. Hurricanes that have done FAR worse damage (Edith - 1971) and killed FAR, FAR more people (Gordon - 1994) weren't retired, but Klaus was. Klaus killed eleven WITH HELP FROM MARCO!!! shouldn't they both be retired? or better yet neither? Whats with this call? Cyclone1 02:37, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

See the Klaus article. Storm names are retired by the request of the individual nations, and Martinique requested Klaus's retirement. — jdorje (talk) 02:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh, ill do that. Thanks. 152.163.100.74 20:45, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

That's correct, and the WMO approved it. Gordon was overlooked by Haiti (had they made a case, it surely would have been accepted and retired), and Edith was in an era when retirement was less strict. CrazyC83 21:20, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Retirement of "Hilda"

In this article and in a few others it is stated that the name Hilda was placed on the list of names for 1973. According to one source, a book by Ruth Brindze, the name of the H storm for the 1973 Atlantic hurricane season was Helen. --65.24.223.243 08:54, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Retirement of Gracie

An anon just removed Hurricane Gracie (1959) from the list. I was about to revert it as vandalism, but I decided to take a look at Gracie's article - which says that it was retired. So again I was about to revert it as vandalism, but I decided to take a closer look at the external link http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/retirednames.shtml - and here it is not listed. The 1959 Atlantic hurricane season also lists it as retired. So what's the deal? — jdorje (talk) 00:21, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting. Well, this site, another Government site by some NHC officials, does in include Gracie. I'll e-mail the NHC, and perhaps it was a typo? Hurricanehink 00:46, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
According to this WMO Newsletter Gracie is retired. PenguinCDF 06:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
It seems most likely the first link is a typo and Gracie was indeed retired. However the fact that the WMO page includes links to wikipedia makes me suspicious that they got their list from here as well. I'd still like some explanation from the NHC. — jdorje (talk) 07:04, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page naming

Shouldn't this be List of retired Atlantic hurricane names? The names are being retired, not the hurricanes themselves. æle ✆ 03:40, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

But the article is a list of storms, not a list of names. It doesn't list "Carol", it lists "Carol (1954)" with a summar of its effects. — jdorje (talk) 04:56, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
The storms are what caused the names to be retired, and they should of course be listed. However, the World Meteorological Organization would have a hard time retiring actual hurricanes :), so the title is misleading. æle ✆ 11:09, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
That was my first thought after happening upon this page. If a hurricane can be said to retire, then all hurricanes retire eventually, at least on Earth so far. I'd add names to the title.--J Clear 13:25, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Never be used to name a hurricane again"

Many articles on Atlantic hurricanes say something like "Never be used to name a hurricane again". Now, from here: "Retiring a name actually means that it cannot be reused for at least 10 years, to facilitate historic references, legal actions, insurance claim activities, etc. and avoid public confusion with another storm of the same name." (my emphasis). This isn't official, but consider: The "unretirements" of Hilda, Dora, and Celia are all ten years after their Atlantic retirement. Who knows? Maybe it's true. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 01:37, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I added that text when I added the "seealso" links. Mostly I added it so that the retirement section would be a full paragraph long, and note it should always say "never be used in an Atlantic hurricane" again. However if it's untrue, then of course we should fix the text. However we should first fix this article and explain excatly what retirement entails (right now it just says its "removed from the rotation of naming lists"). — jdorje (talk) 03:15, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jose, Charley, Hilda and maybe Allison?

Why isn't Allison one of those storms retired after a previous storm caused significant damage as well? '89's Allison poured freakishly torrential floods across the South East, where as the 2001 Allison caused heavy damage in Houston. Should Allison be there? Cyclone1 02:36, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I assume you mean Juan, not Jose. Agreed, Allison should be there, though that should have been retired in the first place. Other storms I think should have been retired include:
Hurricanehink 03:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I don't know why we have that section. It lists three hurricane pairs of which the first is "just as significant", but significance is POV so this isn't encyclopedic. However, I don't think anyone would claim the first Allison was as significant as the retired Allison. — jdorje (talk) 03:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

That section could be replaced with a section entitled, "Damaging but not retired", and could list those I named above. Hurricanehink 03:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
But why would such a list belong in this article? It should be over in List of notable Atlantic hurricanes. — jdorje (talk) 07:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, I like that idea! Will do. Hurricanehink 15:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


Yeah i meant Juan. Lol. Wasn't Jose in 99 fairly damaging too? Cyclone1 01:18, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree fully, Hink and Jordje. That should be a section in the Atlantic Hurricanes Article. Cyclone1 20:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I actually was going to do this, but because many of those are on the costliest Atlantic hurricanes, I denoted those that weren't retired with a *. Hurricanehink 20:50, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Cool. —Cyclone1 00:22, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Whoa, wait what the?

Whats happening to the page!? Whats with the way theyre organized now?? I disagree with listing them by weakness to strength!!! Are you (whoever you are) gonna put in a new list similar to the old one?! Cyclone1 01:01, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, oh oh ! the whole page is being revamped. Ok. I see its still underconstruction. Please disregard this comment. Cyclone1 01:04, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I do tend to agree the "by strength" list should go from strongest to weakest; you may feel free to reverse it I imagine. — jdorje (talk) 01:25, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Feel free to put them in the reverse order; I like it better this way but wouldn;t fight a reversal. —Cuiviénen, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 @ 02:27 (UTC)
Maybe only one of us should work on the page at a time. I'll leave you to it, as I have other work to do as well. —Cuiviénen, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 @ 02:46 (UTC)
I'm done for now. Good idea, though, for the future. Hurricanehink 03:02, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Only one person should work on each section at a time; use {{inuse}} if you're afraid of conflicts (it can be used on a specific section, though global edits will still cause conflicts; {{underconstruction}} may help there). I picked the deaths section just because it was the last one and least likely to be edited by others I figured. — jdorje (talk) 03:10, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Are you gonna put the prices in order. The total cost list is still weakest to strongest. If no one can do that now ill do it. Maybe. Cyclone1 15:27, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Damage totals

Good news, I found Anita's total, which before the re-write would be the last storm damage total. However, I didn't add Juan or Connie because I couldn't find a source on that. Anyone who can can add it, provided they list the source. Hurricanehink 03:02, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lists, sorting, and data

The purpose of a separate list is to be able to control the sorting. But each list should include as many fields as are relevant, without becoming too wide or overloading the content for the user. — jdorje (talk) 03:18, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] By wind speed

This one's pretty straightforward. I guess there's some indecision about the order of sorting. My only problem, though, is that the windspeed is a poor indicator and the list should be done by intensity and therefore by minimum pressure; the problem with this is that many storms have incomplete pressure readings. — jdorje (talk) 03:18, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] By damages

This should be sorted by damage in current-day dollars, but it should include damage in storm-day ("at the time") dollars as well. I guess it should also include a primary location of damage field too. — jdorje (talk) 03:18, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

We don't need a source for every damage given in this article. The sources should all be given in the storm articles. However, we should use this list as an opportunity to improve the damage entries for each of the storm articles. There is...a lot of work to be done here. — jdorje (talk) 03:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
I know not every source is needed, but I figured it couldn't hurt, especially if the hurricane articles don't have a source for the total. I found Juan's correct total (200 million), though I can't seem to find Connie. That's pretty ironic, too, considering in the old list, the last few to get done were Diana, Anita, Cesar, and Michelle. You'd think that Connie, a US cane, would have a total. Too bad Diane struck just days later. Hurricanehink 04:43, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
This list is closely related to the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tropical_cyclones#Inflated_costs. — jdorje (talk) 05:00, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
After some consideration I changed all present-day numbers to be inflated using the CPI. This means, for instance, that Andrew's info in the table is different from what the Andrew article says! The same is true of all U.S. hurricanes. However using a consistent method of conversion is the only way we can realistically make an ordered table...and (as discussed in the link above) using the GDP deflator for non-US storms makes no sense anyway. — jdorje (talk) 18:02, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] By deaths

This should obviously be sorted by deaths. It has a field for primary location of deaths; note this is often not the same as the primary location of damages (Hurricane Opal and Hurricane Jeanne are easy examples). — jdorje (talk) 03:18, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

This should be sorted by direct deaths. We could also add a field for indirect deaths, however. For older storms only direct deaths are available, so the indirect field is just a "bonus" piece of information. — jdorje (talk) 06:57, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I was thiking of adding "indirect deaths" and "primary cause" fields. Indirect deaths is pretty obvious; the only problem is it will be very hard to find for some older storms (but may be quite revealing for some storms like Rita). Primary cause gives the primary cause of the deaths - generally "storm surge" or "inland flooding" or "wind-related", but occasionally can be a lot more precise like "tornado" or "boat sinking". — jdorje (talk) 23:14, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] By landfall

I'm not sure how this one should be sorted. I'm also not sure why it's in a separate top-level section while the others are in their own section (except that's how List of Category 5 Pacific hurricanes did it). — jdorje (talk) 03:18, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I set it up that way because it isn't a list per se. I intended to use the same format as the Category 5 Atlantic and Pacific hurricanes pages. —Cuiviénen, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 @ 15:41 (UTC)

[edit] Posibble new lists?

The problem with adding new lists is that each of them is really long. But there are lots of things it might be somewhat interesting to sort by. Date in season would be somewhat interesting, the problem is do you use the formation date or landfall date or dissipation date? Chronological order should surely have its own list; it can be pretty short I imagine (see {{Retired Atlantic hurricanes}}). — jdorje (talk) 03:18, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Landfall date sounds interesting. That problem would come if the storm had more than one important landfall, but we could discuss that. The only ones that have that problem is Klaus (Martinique landfall would be needed due to lack of exact S.C. landfall), Agnes (Florida works), Jeanne (Haiti deaths or Florida damage?), Isidore (Cuba, Yucatan, or Louisiana?), Inez (Cuba, Florida, or Mexico?), Janet (which landfall), or Gilbert (which landfall?). Based on that, I say use the formation date. Hurricanehink 03:27, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Rather than making a table listing storms by date, I think it would be better to make a climatology or statistics section listing the number of storms by month, strength, alphabet (maybe), etc. — jdorje (talk) 06:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I like that idea, but I ,too, dont know how to list it. I kinda like the formation deal. Cyclone1 15:32, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should it look somethin like this?

All storms are listed by formation date. The formation of the storm is when it was first noticed.

Name Season Formation Date Notes
Allison 2001 June 5
Agnes 1972 June 14
Audrey 1957 June 25 Record earliest Cat 4
Cesar 1996 July 21
Celia 1970 July 31 Formed 12 hours before Allen
Allen 1980 July 31
Edna 1954 August 2
Connie 1955 August 3
Diana 1990 August 4
Diane 1955 August 7
Charley 2004 August 9
Camille 1969 August 14
Alicia 1983 August 15
Bob 1991 August 16 Formed 18 hours before Andrew
Andrew 1992 August 16
Cleo 1964 August 20
Fran 1996 August 23
Frances 2004 August 25 Formed 12 hours before Carol and David
Carol 1954 August 25 Formed the same time of day as David
David 1979 August 25
Betsy 1965 August 27 Formed 18 hours before Fabian
Fabian 2003 August 27
Elena 1985 August 28 Formed 12 hrs before Dora
Dora 1964 August 28 Formed 6 hrs before Luis
Luis 1995 August 28
Carmen 1974 August 29 Formed the same time of day as Frederic
Frederic 1979 August 29 Formed 6 hours before Anita
Anita 1977 August 29 Formed 6 hours before Donna
Donna 1960 August 29
Ivan 2004 September 2
Carla 1961 September 3 Formed the same time of day Hortense
Hortense 1996 September 3
Beulah 1967 September 5
Isabel 2003 September 6
Floyd 1999 September 7
Gilbert 1988 September 8
Ione 1955 September 10 Formed 6 hours before Hugo
Hugo 1989 September 10
Marilyn 1995 September 12
Eloise 1975 September 13 Formed 12 hous before Jeanne
Jeanne 2004 September 13
Fifi 1974 September 14 Formed 6 hours before Isidore
Isidore 2002 September 14
Georges 1998 September 15
Gloria 1985 September 16
Gracie 1959 September 20
Inez 1966 September 21 Formed 6 ours before Lili and Janet
Janet 1955 September 21 Formed same time of day as Lili
Lili 2002 September 21
Juan 2003 September 24
Flora 1963 September 26
Opal 1995 September 27
Hilda 1964 September 28 Formed 6 hours before Keith
Keith 2000 September 28
Klaus 1990 October 3
Iris 2001 October 4
Hazel 1954 October 5
Roxanne 1995 October 7
Joan 1988 October 10
Mitch 1998 October 22
Hattie 1980 October 27 Record latest Cat 5
Michelle 2001 October 29
Lenny 1999 November 13 Record latest Cat 4

Hattie was missing. It might be missing in the others, too. Cyclone1 18:04, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Problem is this adds a page and a half to the article, and what actual useful information does it give? I don't think it's worth it. BTW hattie is present in the other tables; however, someone should count all the storms and make sure there is the right number. I'm fairly sure every storm in the deadliest list is retired (pending gracie), and there are no duplicate entries. — jdorje (talk) 20:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, All of them are pretty long, cool concept i think though. I think we need Deaths, Price, and Chronological order.—Cyclone1 23:31, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
The landfalls section goes in chronological order. — jdorje (talk) 03:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I like the landfalls layout! Cyclone1 23:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] By alphabetical order

I think there should be a alphabetical and season year list on this artical. — Hurricane Devon ( Talk ) 21:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2005 retirees

New entries for potential 2005 retired storms (presumably we'll know these within a week). — jdorje (talk) 21:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't be surprised if Stan is retired. Hurricane Diana and Hurricane Cesar were not too different from Stan without the extra system, and I would bet that Guatemala requests retirement (they may not agree with the NHC regarding the cause of the 1,500+ deaths). Also, I did the landfalls by nation with the exception of US states and islands such as Antigua (vs Antigua and Barbuda). I know that may be somewhat POV, but US states are universally recognizable while Mexican states are not - and, if we include Mexican states, we should also include Cuban provinces. —Cuiviénen, Saturday, 1 April 2006 @ 01:06 (UTC)
I expect stan will be retired...I just wasn't as familiar with its numbers so I didn't bother filling it out yet. — jdorje (talk) 01:25, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm in favor of using Mexican states...I don't think that mandates using Cuban provinces, as each mexican state is approximately the size of Cuba. But I don't care that much. — jdorje (talk) 01:25, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
I've added Stan and reordered the lists to the order used in the article. —Cuiviénen, Saturday, 1 April 2006 @ 17:37 (UTC)
Stan and Rita were the reason I wanted to add an "indirect deaths" column to the deaths table (I wanted to add a "primary reason" column too). However, I gave up because too many storms have no available information on either of these fields. — jdorje (talk) 17:57, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Did anyone see this news article? Seems Emily isn't being considered for retirement... "The WMO is looking at retiring the names of Dennis, Katrina, Rita, Stan and Wilma because of the damage and deaths associated with those storms in 2005." - JVG 17:49, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
They said "possibly more". The only way I can see Emily staying put is if it was completely overlooked (which is possible) by all the nations affected. I can't see the WMO rejecting it. CrazyC83 21:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Here it is, the new names for 2011: Don, Katia, Rina, Sean, and Whitney. What a lack of imagination in the new names! However, looking to 2006, with "Kirk," I'm just hoping we don't all boldly go there. Mkieper 18:02, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] By intensity

Name Season Max. 1-min. average sustained wind Min. central pressure
Knots Km/h Mph Mbar (hPa)
Stan 2005 70 130 80 977
Dennis 2005 130 240 150 930
Emily 2005 140 260 160 929
Katrina 2005 150 280 175 902
Rita 2005 155 285 180 895
Wilma 2005 160 300 185 882

[edit] By damage

Name Season Damages (at the time) Damages (2005 USD)
Katrina 2005 $75 billion $75 billion
Wilma 2005 $16-20 billion $16-20 billion
Rita 2005 $10 billion $10 billion
Dennis 2005 $4-6 billion $4-6 billion
Stan 2005 $1-2 billion $1-2 billion
Emily 2005 $550 million $550 million

[edit] By deaths

Name Season Direct deaths Primary location
Katrina 2005 ≥1,604 New Orleans, Mississippi, U.S. Gulf Coast
Stan 2005 80-100 Mexico, El Salvador. Guatemala
Dennis 2005 42 Haiti, Cuba
Wilma 2005 22 Haiti, Quintana Roo, Florida
Rita 2005 7 U.S. Gulf Coast
Emily 2005 6 Jamaica

[edit] By landfall

Name Landfall
Category 5 Category 4 Category 3 Category 2 Category 1 Tropical Storm
Dennis Cuba (twice) Florida
Emily Quintana Roo (twice) Tamaulipas
Katrina Louisiana & Mississippi Florida
Rita Louisiana
Stan Veracruz Quintana Roo
Wilma Quintana Roo (twice) Florida

[edit] Wind Speed vs Intensity

The listing by strength has just been reordered from by peak winds to by minimum pressure. I believe that this should be changed back, primarily because minimum pressure has nothing to do with damages while winds do, and damages are directly linked to retirement. —Cuiviénen, Saturday, 1 April 2006 @ 19:12 (UTC)

I disagree wholeheartedly. Pressure is the sole measure of hurricane intensity; the NHC does not have a list of highest-wind hurricanes to strike the U.S., they only have a list of the lowest-pressure ones. As storms like Katrina and Floyd showed, pressure can be a better measure of destructive potential than wind speed because most damages and deaths are not caused by straight-line winds - if two storms (say Katrina and Camille) have about the same pressure, the larger and slower (winds) one is roughly as destructive as the smaller and faster one. Further, the list shows only peak intensity not landfall intensity; since most storms reached their peak while away from land their wind speeds at that point don't matter - but their peak intensity does matter since it affects the size and duration of a storm as it weakens (again, Katrina and Floyd are good examples). Finally, wind measurements are pure estimates that - especially for older storms - can be inaccurate, while pressure measurements (with the odd exception of Rita) are all measured directly and are considered accurate. — jdorje (talk) 04:16, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Pressure should be used to maintain the order, with ties broken by wind speed, then actual impact. CrazyC83 22:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I suspect the current tiebreaker is wind speed. There are not very many ties however. I also think the list should be reordered so the most notable storms are at the top (as the other 2 lists have). — jdorje (talk) 22:20, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

The caption for the Hurricane Gilbert image says "Hurricane Gilbert was the second-most intense Atlantic hurricane." I can't figure out what that means, as it clearly was NOT the most intense by pressure (and the article says "the intensity of tropical cyclones is measured solely by central pressure"). It also wasn't near the worst with respect to wind speed. Perhaps the caption really means it was the second-most intense Atlantic hurricane THAT YEAR?--192.68.228.4 22:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Gilbert was the second most intense Atlantic hurricane with a recorded pressure (the most intense hurricane was Wilma). Those two storms had a minimum pressure of 882 and 888 mbar respectively, and the more intense a storm the lower its central pressure.--Nilfanion (talk) 22:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Nowhere does the article make explicitly clear that the lower pressures are more powerful, although with some careful thought a reader should come to that conclusion. This is exacerbated by the ordering of the table from weakest retired to strongest, which is counterintuitive (this isn't a top-ten countdown; people are generally more interested in the stronger storms). I suggest opening the section like "This lists all retired hurricanes by their peak intensity, which is determined by measurements of the minimum central pressure (the lower the pressure, the more intense the storm)." Also, the table should be sorted from most- to least-intense storms.--71.125.122.86 18:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

I've added four images to the article: Gilbert at its peak (intensity), damage from Andrew (damages), flooding from Jeanne (deaths) and an animation of Charley making landfall (landfall). Look good? —Cuiviénen, Tuesday, 4 April 2006 @ 02:42 (UTC)

Very.—Cyclone1 22:45, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Factuality questions

[edit] Hattie

The article had a Mexico landfall listed for Hattie. EBrown pointed out that that landfall was as a ts as Simone. However, a landfall by Simone doesn't belong here so I removed it. (Actually this may not be a factuality issue but more a question of the scope of the article. Note that Cesar-Douglas does not include Douglas in the intensity section.) — jdorje (talk) 02:58, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Katrina

The article lists 1604 deaths for Katrina. However this is wrong since those include both direct and indirect. The table is for direct deaths only. — jdorje (talk) 02:58, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

There is NO source that is breaking that number down - it is almost impossible at this point. Best to stick with the 1,604 and treat it as a direct count, even if it obviously isn't. CrazyC83 05:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greek letter procedure

Max Mayfield said it right: if a Greek letter is retired, that letter is simply skipped over in future seasons. Had that subtropical storm been noticed initially, Wilma would have been Alpha (imagine that, the strongest storm ever being named after a Greek letter!) and that would have been an issue. The article says: Also, the hurricane center would have had to retire Alpha, meaning that if there are more than 21 named storms this season, the first letter to be used after the main list of 21 names is exhausted would be Beta. [1] CrazyC83 05:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WHAT THE..!!

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LANDFALLS!? It looks weird now! Cyclone1 20:09, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Reverted it back to how it was. Hurricanehink 20:34, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Thank you! Oh, and if anyone hasnt noticed, I tend to overreact. LOL—Cyclone1 20:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criteria for deaths/damages locations

The deaths and damages table give locations where the deaths and damages occurred, but we don't seem to have consistent criteria for these. Take for instance Jeanne: 93% of its fatalities occurred in Gonaives and 99% in Haiti, but the deaths have been changed to "Haiti, Florida" which is incredibly misleading (more people died in PR and DR than in Florida but these are not mentioned). Similarly, Hilda caused over half of its fatalities in the city of Larose, but mention of this was removed. Perhaps giving a city name is too specific, but in the case of Jeanne and Gonaives I do not think so. In my opinion we should say that a location can be mentioned if at least 1/3 of the deaths (or damages for that table) occurred there. For instance with mitch, about 63% of the deaths were in Honduras, 34% were in Nicaragua, and the remaining 2-3% were mostly in Central America; thus the table entry says "Honduras, Nicaragua, Central America" (though removing Central America would probably be fine here). — jdorje (talk) 02:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

That makes sense. After all, it says primary location. Hurricanehink 11:37, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article name change?

Considering Allison was never a hurricane shouldn't the article be renamed from "List of retired Atlantic hurricanes" to "List of retired Atlantic Tropical Systems"? I know it would be anoying but Wikipedia wants accuracy! :) ~Silence_Knight

If anything, it should be List of retired Atlantic hurricane names. Allison is a rare anomaly that doesn't need to affect all of the other storms, though the "names" qualifier should be on the end. The hurricanes weren't retired, their names were. Hurricanehink (talk) 12:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Going along with your point I feel it should be "List of retired Atlantic Tropical System Names", sure Allison was a rare amomaly, but it still happend. Silence_Knight
True, but everything else on Wikipedia is against the title. We have the List of notable Atlantic hurricanes, List of deadliest Atlantic hurricanes, and Atlantic hurricane. Hurricanehink (talk) 01:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Given that the EPAC is now List of retired Pacific hurricane names, I agree this should do the same. Hurricanehink (talk) 02:55, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hurricane Fabian?

This article says Fabian never made landfall, the the Hurricane Fabian article says it made landfall in Bermuda. Which is right? Jamie|C 09:21, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Fabian directly hit Bermuda but did not make landfall. The centre of the storm missed the island; but its eyewall hit.--Nilfanion (talk) 09:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was unopposed move. Patstuarttalk|edits 15:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move

As I put on the talk page and at WP:RM, if we moved List of retired Pacific hurricanes, we need to move this one as well. However, I don't want to do it then to be reverted because it was done without consensus, as this page is linked from a ton of places. So, I'm bringing this up for discussion. Do we move it to List of retired Atlantic hurricane names, or do we move the Pacific page back? Titoxd(?!?) 02:54, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Support. The "hurricane names" titles are more specific and accurate. —taestell 04:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Support per Taestell. -Patstuarttalk|edits 06:40, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Support Unless the elderly hurricanes are all sitting round the home for retired hurricanes, it is the names that have been retired. -- Beardo 02:14, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong support. Hurricanehink (talk) 22:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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