Talk:List of people on the autistic spectrum

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Contents

[edit] Speculative material

I am concerned that some names on this list are of people speculated to be autistic and not known to be autistic. Specifically, I am skeptical that Isaac Asimov, John Denver, Bobby Fischer, Andy Kaufman, and Charles Schultz are autistic. I do not dispute that these people might be autistic, but I doubt that they are diagnosed and this list is intended to be of people whose autism status is known and not speculated. Q0 07:15, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Every single one of those people was added only yesterday by an anonymous contributor. Feel free to move disputed entries to the Talk page until sources can be cited for them. -Silence 10:42, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I have removed the following entries from the article. If anyone has a reference that suggests any of these people were diagnosed with autism, they may be added back to the list. If an external reference can be found that speculates that any of these people were autistic, the speculation may be mentioned at People speculated to have been autistic. Q0 07:47, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


The site i got my material off of is myautis.com/famousaspies.html. a site by a fellow aspie. - Doc Strange 13:43, 7 Feburary 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for providing the source of these entries. However, the list of autistic people is intended for people for whom it is known that they are on the autistic spectrum. Sorry if there has been any confusion. If speculation has been done in a noteworthy place, it can be added to people speculated to have been autistic but I am unsure if the reference you gave is sufficient. Q0 18:54, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey is Morrisey (did I spell that right?) autistic or just eccentric?--Percussion

It's just a speculation, so it shouldn't be included in this list. Eccentricity, is not a diagnostic criterion by itself. monoblonde 07:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Verify tag

Most entries are not referenced and I noticed people have a tendancy to add speculative material to these pages. Although I moved some of the entries I found most questionable to the talk page, I think there still might be speculative entries, but I don't know which ones are speculative. Very few entries are referenced. However, I don't know if there are any conventions for referencing lists. It doesn't seem like it should be necessary to reference an entry if it is referenced or mentioned in the article about the person that the person is on the autistic spectrum. Though, it would be difficult to determine if an entry is referenced when viewing the list if entries referenced in their respective article are not referenced on the list of autistic people page, because that would require visiting the article of each unreferenced entry to see if referencing is in the respective article. It seems like there should be a way to tag an entry that says something like "see article about this person for referencing". In addition, if the person wrote a book about their experiences as an autistic person, and if the article says something like, "author of ____", then I think that should count as a reference. Q0 14:16, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Referenced and unreferenced entries

I have categorised the entries of this list based on whether or not there are references for the entry. I did not categorize the autistic savants section, because I am less concerned about the reliability of that section. Other people may feel free to categorize that section if desired. Even though many of the entries had it mentioned in the article about the person that xe is autistic, I still think that some of those articles do not reference that the people are on the autistic spectrum. Q0 15:47, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] People with references in this list

[edit] People for whom it is mentioned that they wrote a book or documentary about their experiences as an autistic person

[edit] People for whom it is mentioned in their article that they are on the autistic spectrum

I see they've removed Syd Barrett from the list...-Percussion

[edit] Unreferenced entries

I removed Daryl Hannah because I could find no obvious evidence or any references. --Ben Houston 20:26, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, I found a reputable reference and added it back in. --Ben Houston 20:30, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

-Thom Yorke removed. there is nothing to suggest that he has Aspergers, it is pure unfounded speculation. -Bob

Dude, what's with some of the entries on this list? I am very skeptical that some of these entries could qualify to be autistic, or even Asperger's. I mean, Courtney Love?

I did, however, do a search for "satoshi-tajiri asperger's" on Google and found this: http://igo.ampednews.com/features/182/2/

I also saw another page on the first 10 links that says Tajiri has Asperger's and cites Wikipedia. Macarenaman 12:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, never used Wikipedia as your only source (=. And someone should post the video of Craig Nicholls performing "Outtathaway" on Later With Jools Holland as proof of his Aspergers. Wow. Doc Strange 14:21, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

-Neil Young is an epileptic, which he mentioned in an interview with the Rolling Stone. Epilepsy can can produce traits, similar to AS. This might be the reason, why Neil Young is speculated to be autistic. When my doctor diagnosed me with AS, he made sure, to single out epilepsy first, because of that. I think we can remove him from the list. monoblonde 7:35, 18. Oktober 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Additions

I think we need to add 2 people to this list:

1. That kid in New York that made 6 3-pointers in one high-school basketball game. Whatever hsi name is.

2. Kellie Pickler

Jason McElwain is the student of the high school basketball game. He is already in the list Q0 18:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dan Ackroyd

I've moved the following that was at the very end of this article's page, apparently added in response to the note on Dan Ackroyd (don't know who added and when). If correct, it should perhaps be merged into the Asperger's Syndrome article (and the Dan Ackroyd note in this article updated) but someone with more knowledge than I on this subject can make that call... Cheers, Ian Rose 12:17, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

While Asperger's may not have become a DSM or ICD diagnosis until later, people started making the diagnosis "unofficially" not long after Hans Asperger published "Autistic psychopathy in childhood." People were also diagnosing "Kanner's Syndrome," based on his description of autism that preceded Asperger's by a year, yet that has never been an "official" diagnosis.
I don't know whether Dan Akroyd was joking or not, but it is certainly possible he was diagnosed with Asperger's any time after 1944, when Asperger's description was published.
FWIW, when I heard the NPR interview, he seemed quite serious. He went on to discuss some of his behaviors that he considers related (for instance, he always carries a police badge with him). FreplySpang (talk) 13:52, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to handle the dispute about whether or not Ackroyd was joking in accordance with wikipedia's policies. If there were external references that suggested he was joking then it would be allowable to report it in wikipedia's article, but I'm not sure how to deal with a controversy among editors. I would have no problem with saying "there is a dispute about whether or not Dan Ackroyd was joking" in the article, but I think that might count as original research since the dispute takes place in Wikipedia. Q0 15:15, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question about categories

I hope I'm doing this right. I'm new to Wikipedia. Anyway, I'm curious what "unspecified forms of autism" means in this context. Michelle Dawson and Donna Williams have both been diagnosed with autism ("autistic disorder"), which is not an unspecified form of autism. Dawn Prince-Hughes is diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. For Donna Williams and Dawn Prince-Hughes, this is described in their books and other places. For Michelle Dawson it is described in newspaper articles and her own writings on the Internet.

I'm also not sure if the categorization system as it stands, works right now. For instance, there are famous autistic savants who have Asperger's syndrome, such as Jerry Newport. Which category would he go in, savant or Asperger? There are also many autistic people who have not been diagnosed as high-functioning or low-functioning, but just as autistic. (Not "unspecified", but rather "autistic disorder", which is specified.)

Is there a way to sort people that avoids these dilemmas? For instance, you could use the diagnostic categories (autism, Asperger, PDD-NOS, unspecified, for example) and then specify by each person's name any other information (such as being a savant or not, or being verbal or not, or anything else relevant like that). As it stands now, there are people who would either overlap the categories or not fit any of them.

You express valid concerns. However, I am not quite sure how to deal with them. I think we do need a different way of categorizing entries. I tried to help this situation by writing a description in the "unspecified forms of autism" section. However, that description probably doesn't quite describe it accurately, so it probably still needs some work. Also, it might be necessary to accomodate the fact that some people disagree with the division of the autistic spectrum into Asperger's and high/low functioning. Q0 00:41, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
With high/low functioning my concern isn't as much whether I believe in the difference, but whether particular people's diagnoses include a specifier such as high-functioning or severe. For instance Donna Williams is generally regarded as high-functioning but has an IQ that would, if going by the IQ-based definitions of functioning, make her low-functioning. She is just diagnosed with autism though. So it's unclear what definitions are going to be used on this page to differentiate. If such a differentiation occurs it should probably be described as to how it occurs. For instance, do you use IQ scores, do you use whether a person can speak or not, what criteria are you using to differentiate. Because most people's autism diagnoses do not include a mild or severe or HFA or LFA specifier, they are just "autism" or "Asperger" or other things.
I think a solution would be to not separate high and low functioning, since there is not a concensus on whether or not IQ or communication skills should be used. Also, I wonder if it would be best to avoid all the categorization in the page, or maybe to only separate savants in a different section. Q0 05:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I think there are several formal diagnostic categories; Not Otherwise Specified (ie PDD Nos), Asperger's, Autism and those who fit the diagnostic criteria for Autistic Savant (the new term for the less PC 'idiot savant' which in fact retains the original diagnostic criteria of both severe cognitive disability contrasted with exceptional ability and this is what distinguishes it from the more common category of 'exceptionally gifted'). In the case of the Autism category I don't think the term 'high functioning' can be applied to one set, yet the less pride-instilling term 'severe' applied to another set of people. This is inconsistent, disempowering to those in the 'severe' group, and I feel its also demeaning to them. Also the division of 'high functioning' from 'severe' creates a false reality as those like me, fit in the 'moderate' group yet people have to choose which of the other two non-fitting groups to put me in. I have an IQ under 80, a tertiary education but have just managed to successfully run baths and am yet to master consistently heating a pie. So I'm not severe enough that I can't turn a tap, but I'm certainly very limited in learning to use most new taps and this isn't really a 'high functioning' daily reality. The case is that there will be others, like me, in the moderate group who are not diagnosed HFA but are diagnosed with autism. The solution may be to change 'high functioning' to 'mild to moderate' and retain 'severe' or to lose this disempowering discrimination and have those diagnosed with autism in one group. But whilst Asperger's and PDD Nos are 'autism spectrum conditions', they are not formal diagnoses of 'autism'. Also, whilst the daily functioning reality of those with 'HFA' may closely resemble those with Asperger's, those in the 'moderate' group generally doesn't. Donna 11.29, 7 Jan 2007 (AEST).
Also, it would be helpful if you had references that specified who is diagnosed with what. Above, you have specified the diagnosis of Michelle Dawson, Dawn Prince-Hughes, Jerry Newport, etc. do you know of any specific websites/newspaper articles/books/etc. that say what their diagnosis is? Q0 01:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Dawn Prince-Hughes's Asperger diagnosis is described on pages 173-175 of Songs of the Gorilla Nation, by Dawn Prince-Hughes. Michelle Dawson's autism diagnosis is I think mentioned in newspaper articles, but the thing I found most easily was this: http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_sup.html Which includes an affidavit that starts out: "I the undersigned, Michelle Dawson, postal worker, residing and domiciled at (street address), Montreal, Quebec, having been duly sworn hereby depose and say: 1. I am an autistic adult, having been diagnosed with autism in 1993-94;". Jerry Newport's Asperger diagnosis is mentioned in the news story "When Jerry Met Mary" which says "As Jerry watched Hoffman play Babbitt, he said, "That's me." Babbitt was 40 when he first realized he was autistic. So Jerry set out to learn everything he could about autism, and found his way to the department of psychiatry at UCLA. There, he was diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome, which most experts say is a distinctive form of autism." That's here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/29/60II/main646311.shtml Donna Williams's autism diagnosis is discussed I think in her books Somebody Somewhere and Autism: An Inside-Out Approach.
Thank you for your references. However, I couldn't find anything in the reference about Jerry Newport that says he is a savant (though I still appreciate the reference because it does say he has Asperger's). I did found something saying that says Mary Meinel is a savant. Q0 05:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the 'savant' category and the inclusion of those, like Jerry and his wife, with Aspergers who do not meet the diagnostic criteria for 'autistic savant' (severe cognitive disability combined with exceptional ability), an additional category of 'exceptionally gifted' people on the spectrum, would allow for the inclusion of those without severe cognitive disability who have exceptional abilities, yet also not require wikipedia to be inaccurate regarding the DSM for 'autistic savant'. I think its one thing to use the adjective 'autistic savant' to describe 'exceptional abilities' in someone with autism, another thing to use 'autistic savant' to describe someone on the AUTISTIC SPECTRUM with exceptional abilities (would this be 'autistic spectrum savants?), and then another thing again to take this adjective use of the term and use it in a context where its presumed the person would fit the DSM for that category. In this case, only those who fit both a diagnosis of autism and fit the full DSM criteria for 'idiot savant' (now called autistic savant so would entail both a diagnosis of autism and an IQ under 80) would legitimately be in this group. I think the category of 'exceptionally gifted people on the spectrum' would be an interesting addition to this page as those in this group differ very distinctly from those 'autistic savants' who fit the DSM for that term. Donna 11.29, 7 Jan 2007 (AEST).
Oh. Here's a reference detailing some of Jerry's savant skills and in which he is referred to towards the end as a savant: http://aspires-relationships.com/jerry_and_mary_newport.htm Also I just remembered that Donna Williams describes savant skills here: http://www.donnawilliams.net/savantsyndrome.0.html?&L=0
I moved Jerry Newport to the autistic savants section and mentioned there that he has Asperger syndrome. Since every entry in the autistic savants section fits into one of the other sections, it seems logical to include savants in that section before other sections. Q0 15:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Steven Spielberg

Steven Spielberg is frequently inserted and deleted. I think it would be more constructive to discuss it here on the talk page since the addition and deletion of Spielberg's name from this list is so frequent. Q0 09:41, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

The reason I deleted was that there was no source - and made that comment on the edit summary. My understanding is that a source has to be supplied so that 1) we are sure 2) we don't defame people. I would love for him to be so but we can't put up without proof. People keep on ignoring this so it keeps on being like a yo-yo. --Imcdnzl 19:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/steven_spielberg.htm is a reference that says Spielberg is Asperger's. Probably not a credible reference, but it's the best I can find. Q0 20:07, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I put a note, hidden so you can only see it if you click Edit, on Asperger Syndrome saying not to add him without a reliable source. All I've seen is a couple of Web sites that don't say where they got thier information. When I was editing this page I noticed a similar note, with several other names but not Spielberg specificaly. Adding him to that list would probably keep him from coming up as often. (I will also say that Spielberg strikes me as an unlikely candidate.) PurplePlatypus 06:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Somebody put Spielberg back in. The source they cite says only that his early achievements are less surprising "IF reports that he [has AS] are to be believed". Keep Spielberg out until a reputable source that actually says outright that he has some form of autism can be found, not one that merely speculates about it. PurplePlatypus 04:29, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Given how common the rumor is that Spielberg has Asperger's, but none of the references are authoritative enough, I wonder if a good compromise to add him to People speculated to have been autistic. Q0 10:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Since Spielberg is a living person and falls under WP:BLP I would say no. Since the only source I could find was IMDB or something similar. Really not a good source. Garion96 (talk) 11:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Syd Barrett

"Syd Barrett, ex-guitarist/vocals for Pink Floyd had Asperger's and some schizophrenia which lead him to him being kicked out of the band."

where does this come from? the schizophrenia is well known, but not the AS.

Much like the Spielberg stuff, some overzealous types took a source that speculated that he might have AS and chose to interpret it as saying he definitely did. PurplePlatypus 04:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
It was the acid. And i'm saying this as both an Aspie and as a fan. Doc Strange 14:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Richard Borcherds

Regarding Richard Borcherds' diagnosis, this is discussed in detail in Simon Baron-Cohen's book "The Essential Difference.

[edit] Internet Movie Database

I noticed that the Internet Movie Database is listed as the reference for one of the entries. Is the IMDB a reliable source? Q0 07:50, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, no. IMDB is user edited, with some control but still. Great for movie listings and such, but for personal info I don't think it's a good source. I will try to find a better source for those entries and I guess otherwise remove them. Garion96 (talk) 12:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rules of living peopol biography

I added the tag,yes it's a little bit creative.But the list is some sort of biography.It seems to me fair to aply the same rules then for a biography,if the person is stil alive.If your not unanimous ,or if thers a more apropriate tag,simply remove it an discuss here.--Pixel ;-) 22:54, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Bram Cohen

this link:

http://wrongplanet.net/modules.php?name=Articles&pa=showpage&pid=98

includes an interview on Cohen, the creator of BitTorrent's diagnosis as an Aspie. Also there was an article in a Spring 2006 issue of Blender magazine involving an A-Z list of musician's illnesses. Under the two paragraphs for Asperger's, Craig Nicholls and Gary Numan are ID'd as such Doc Strange 11:20 6 October 2006 (UTC)

They never get around to asking him about diagnosis. Bram plays the AS publicists like a fiddle. Gazpacho 18:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Box solely for Darryl Hannah

What's with the box only for her? The rest of the people are in a bulleted list, so she needs to be put there too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.65.199.254 (talk • contribs) . 11:11, 17 October 2006

I guess someone started to put entries in a box, but stopped before finishing. I removed it for now. Garion96 (talk) 10:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Moon

I think it's likely this is not the same person as the professor Michael Moon who is the subject of the article in Wikipedia this entry links to, and if so, we've got Michael Moon the professor labeled as autistic, which I suspect he wouldn't appreciate if it is not true (interestingly, though, Professor Moon is working on a project about Henry Darger, the eccentric artist, who is often speculated to have been autistic).

(Edited to add: I read this article about Elizabeth Moon, mother of Michael Moon the autistic person: http://www.rice.edu/sallyport/2006/summer/features/moon.html and in it he is described as "severely autistic." There are too many inconsistencies between this article and the Wikipedia article for Professor Michael Moon for the two to be the same person--for example, Prof. Moon published a major work in 1991, at which time Michael Moon son of Elizabeth can't have been over about 20 years old--according to the Rice article, Elizabeth Moon didn't even graduate from college until 1968 and then went into the Marines for three years, as well--surely she can't have adopted her son that early. So I removed the brackets from Michael Moon's name, not knowing what else to do. Hope that's OK.)

Songflower 22:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] David Byrne

If a prominent artist gets his journal quoted in the NY Times identifying himself as "borderline aspergers" , isn;t that documentation? Or is that limited to a clinical diagnosis. I think Byrne should be added back to this list and let the reader ascertain how substantial the evidence is. Certainly his stage mannerisms are consistent with the self-diagnosis, and the peak of the Talking Heads predates the pop culture awareness of this issue —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.181.52.14 (talk) 02:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

Saying he probably had borderline Asperger's is not documentation that he really had it any more than saying, "I think I'm a Martian," makes me a Martian. Had he said he'd actually been diagnosed with Asperger's, we could have taken that at face value to list him. Doczilla 15:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

That's a fair point, but at the time he would have been diagnosed (circa 1960-1970) Asperger's wasn;t understood by most physicians...this was when "science" blamed "refrigerator mothers" for a neurological condition —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.181.52.14 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Bill Gates

If there's no reference in the published domain cited (unlike David Byrne) this name should be scratched —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.181.52.14 (talk) 02:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC).

Good call. Until we have an appropriate source, we shouldn't list him. Doczilla 15:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
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