Talk:List of people by name: Vo

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[edit] German "von" and alphabetization

This is in reference to Talk:Lists_of_people#.27Von.27_as_part_of_German_names and List_of_people_by_name:_Vo-Vq.

Should the entries such as "von Bulow, Vicco", "von Luckner, Felix Graf", et cetera be re-alphabetized based on the content of the talk thread at Lists of people? Courtland 01:27, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Likely not, based on http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29/Archive&direction=next&oldid=17945962#Chicago_Manual_of_Style_sez. Courtland 01:41, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

_ _ The prior raising of the "particle" issue re Cats and "lists of people by other than name" but not re LoPbN is relevant. The stated approach (tho sparsely implemented) at LoPbN, which i strongly support (and [full disclosure] personally enunciated) implicitly assumes that a list of all bios is a navigational tool (tho i hesitate to call it our biggest Dab), not an information medium per se. It has a specific job to do for users with misconceptions abt the exact surname of the person they are interested in: get them as quickly as practical to the bio, which is the best place for clearing up their misconception. That implies creating "mistake" entries for their use for a Van or von name: one in the Vs and one within the pages covering whatever letter combination in the name appears after the Van or von. On a tentative basis (i.e., i've been far from thorough in extending the principle, & i'll be glad to personally fix it if there is consensus i went off the deep end), some such ranges show the structure that results without exhaustive population of that structure:

_ _ (I've just noticed we have none of what seem to be at least dozens of bios for "della"-prefixed names on LoPbn in the Del range!)
_ _ (An argueable reason for other lists of names to worry about the correct name (or some preferably some other single-entry method, that takes less sophistication than "correct name" -- the fairly thorough list of particles omitted "Ter" (as in Ter Horst), "ap", and (not just a joke) "von und zu")) is that most of them are short enuf that glancing down to "the other place for the same name" is a small effort.)
_ _ Especially once the "advanced categories" facilities that have been hinted at appear, this can apply more widely: supposedly all the bios belonging to descendant cats of Category:People will be viewable on a single alpha list (possibly obviating LoPbN), and it would IMO become desirable to put the same bio in each of its Cats at multiple points in the alphabet, corresponding the whether the particles are considered or not in alphabetizing, and whether words that could be sole surnames are recognized as being part of a compound surname.
--Jerzy•t 20:28, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

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