Talk:List of ninjutsu in Naruto (H-R)

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This article was nominated for deletion on 9/1/2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents 1 Rasengan 2 One Thousand Rants 3 Lightning Blank 4 Harem Technique 5 Hidden Shadow Many Snakes Hand and Haze Clone 6 Kusangi 7 Red Secret 7 Swordsmen Puppet? 8 Gaara's unnamed technique 9 Living corpse reincarnation 10 Kusanagi Sword 11 Chidori & Raikiri difference 12 Last Absolute Offense: Spear of Shukaku in manga? 13 Vandalism??? 14 Human puppet alive? 15 Raikiri 16 Genma 17 Chidori and Raikiri

[edit] Rasengan

I'm seeing the justification for not calling the techniques "rasengan" or "chidiori" below, but shouldn't there be some note under rasengan & chidiori pointing out that the information is under their english names? They're the most famous techniques in the series and now they're hard to look up--I couldn't find them until I read this, which is silly. A foolish consistancy, after all...

There is also a new move that only naruto can use. It is HIS jutsu, and is called the rasenshuriken (not sure of the spelling) he uses it around chapter 340

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.162.121.168 (talk) 17:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] One Thousand Rants

THE NAME OF THE TECHNIQUE IS CHIDORI NOT ONE THOUSAND BIRDS. THE NAMES THAT ARE CHANGED BY THE PEOPLE WHO WRITE THEN ENGLISH DUBS ARE NOT OFFICIAL. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.193.96.191 (talk)

WP:Use English, deal with it. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 21:19, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I checked out the anime, heard about a cool move called "Rasengan". Then I came here to search for it, but I couldn't find it. Searched for Rasengan, a 70% article pops up, but no Rasengan there. The redirection is an article of ninjutsu, that starts with the letter S. No R there.

Ofcourse I could find it using the search button of my browser, but come on, Spiraling Sphere?? And One Thousand Birds? Man, if you accept words like Ninjutsu, Sharingan, Ramen, why can't you accept the cool words like Chidory and Rasengan? :( --88.196.136.151 16:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Because the line needs to be drawn somewhere. If we decide to use the romanzation for only two techniques, that'll be inconsistent with the names of all the other techniques that are listed by their literal meaning. We could just start using romanizations for everything, but at some point people start being more familiar with English words than they do rough pronunciations. For example, what is more identifiable: Suirō no Jutsu or Water Prison Technique? Given the rare usage of the technique, you're more likely to remember that it's something about water and being imprisoned than you are to remember than it is something about a sui and a rou.

And two more points: "I could find it using the search button of my browser". Yes you could, and I assume you did. So obviously that works just fine. Additionally, don't the anime subbers usually give translations for jutsu? I know the manga subbers do, and I'd assume their anime counterparts do the same. If they do give a translation, look for that, because that's bound to be close to how it's named here. ~SnapperTo 21:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Not a native Enghlish speaker here, so yes, I did mean "did" instead of "could". You have a good point there. But still I'd like to say, that all of the translations are subjective. If the English anime would call it Ninja Arts: Lolli-Pop Technique, then you'd probably name it that way here too, right? If it would be up to me, then I would name it based on the most popular choice of name by the fans. Anime and manga have the lit. translations, but they appear only once or twice, and are written so they would be out of sight.

The drawing the line idea sounds acceptable tho, if nothing changes with Rasengan/Chidori, then I woun't come back with a shotgun, I'd live with it :) --88.196.131.105 12:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The English anime has no impact on what jutsu are called, so you don't need to worry about grossly inaccurate names being used. ~SnapperTo 20:26, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Years from now when the anime gets to a point where we can safely name all non-filler jutsu, then we'll worry about that particular naming convention. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:43, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

There's no need for any line to be drawn. We could easily just use the official names from the English dub of the anime. Since Chidori and Rasengan are confirmed to retain their Japanese names in the English version, they at least should be listed as such on Wikipedia. Also, WP:COMMONNAME says we should use the name that a subject is most commonly known by. "Spiraling Sphere" and "One Thousand Birds" might be correct literal translations, but they are not used in the official translation and thus are in no way the names most likely to be recognized by English-speaking Wiki users.

BTW, I'd like to note that nearly everything in the List of Dragon Ball special abilities utilizes the Japanese names. Only the attacks that were in English to begin with are listed in English in that article. Thus, a precedent exists for maintaining the original names entirely.

IMO, there are two good options for how to handle the jutsu names. Neither is currently in use. The first is to use the names as given in the original Japanese version, as is done in the above-mentioned Dragon Ball article. The second is to use the names from the English dub; those techniques that have no yet appeared in the dub would retain their Japanese names until the official dub name is revealed. Redxiv 23:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Here, here. I agree. If these terms are not used in the manga, the english dub, or anywhere else, then we are naming articles with terms that have not appeared ANYWHERE in public parlance. This effectively hides them and prevents anybody from finding them. If we were to make everything a translation, then we might as well start calling Uzumaki Naruto "Whirpool Village-in-Japan". The Americanization of these technique names is ridiculous. I say we keep the Japanese name until there is a confirmed English-dub substitute. Once there is an English substitute, we can change it. I'd also like to add that a lot of the readership for these pages are people that follow the Japanese fan-scanlations, which use the Japanese technique names. In order for an article to be good, it should be usable, and changing the names the way they have thus far makes these pages less useful to readers. Ess 09:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Why would you even consider using literal translations over official names in the first place? I'd understand doing so before the name was given; all of the Spiraling Sphere/One Thousand Birds vandalism got quite annoying. But now that we have the official names (and this goes for other improperly-named jutsu as well), it's time to use those official names. Why wait until completion to beautify the article, when you can have a portion of it complete now.

The only problem that I see with this is that the manga uses different translations. So, which do you suppose is the more common dub media? The anime, or the manga? I'd say the anime simply because I like those names better, but I really don't know for sure. Does anybody have a statistic that can be used applied?

You Can't See Me! 09:47, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Just had to chime in that I agree with this sentiment. Using literal meanings for every attack is silly and pointless, especially when the official English translation doesn't use them either. Don't Google tests matter in a case like this? Doesn't it matter that every single Naruto fan, or anyone who comes here interested to learn about it will have heard the Japanese names? Since the dub will use them too, then clearly that is what people will know them as on a regular basis, not the literal translation which will likely be said once when the characters learn it, or something. Lord Shitzu 15:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

How do we know that the English names are the most common ones? I'd like to insist on using the Japanese names, in the name of the WP:COMMONNAME article, and I'll continue insisting until it's statisticly proven that the english names indeed ARE the more common ones in use. STEAM BATH!! 217.208.27.4 14:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

In addition to what's already been said, it seems to me that all of these literally correct but unofficial translations could be considered original research. Which would be another reason to not use them. Redxiv 05:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I 100% agree. Use of fanlations is highly subjective and not common. The argument of using fansub notes is ludicrous. What if someone's using a different subber than the person editing the article? For that matter, Wikipedia should be written for the casual person not just the hardcore fan, so catering to the fansub crowd is wrong. I would vote either for official romanizations, whatever route the DVD subs use (do they translate or romanize), or the english names. If I'm not mistaken, the dub is generally on or close to the original translation. Most other anime I've seen leaves their tech lists romaized, with translation and dub names as notes, btw. Technically if we go by most familiar, I'm inclined to say the original names. My two little brothers (they dont live with me) are young and have strict TV and computer rules. They don't peruse Youtube or download fansubs. They watch Naruto on CN and read the two volumes of the manga I bought them. Yet last fall they both called me up and in conversation were dropping the names Chidori and Rasengan. Onikage725 13:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lightning Blank

To prevent even MORE people from violating 3rr in the future, allow this to be a place to discuss what word follows "Lightning" when translating "Raikiri". In my opinion, "Cutter" sounds lame, which isn't necessarily a reason to make it wrong, but it's just something I want to put out there.

Anyway, User:Cybergoonieenderwiggin is at the moment in favor of the word "Blade", referring to some unnamed data book as evidence. If he would like to elaborate on which databook he's talking about, that would be helpful. ~SnapperTo 04:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Google results commonly pull up "cut/blade/edge" as the translation. Any one is acceptable. Cutter, on the other hand, is a less common result, as it's merely modifiying the translation into a noun. Here's the databook page, but it doesn't give a translation, only an allusion. Link. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 04:38, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

So, if all are acceptable, why don't we just go with "Blade"? Doing so would eliminate the need revert it back to "Cut" every few days, unless of course there is a reason for using "Cut" instead. ~SnapperTo 00:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

We could. Watch the "edge" version start coming up after. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:54, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Harem Technique

Can't the Harem Technique be a D-Rank jutsu? If you substitute a Shadow Clone Jutsu for an ordinary clone, it would make it a D-rank because both Transformation and Clone Jutsu are D-rank, or make it C-Rank at the most. The "results of this jutsu" (to put it one way!) aren't meant to fight the foe!

Then again, contact and wrapping round the target would help! I take it back! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.151.172.38 (talk)

Databooks say it's A-rank, so that's the end of that. ~SnapperTo 19:29, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hidden Shadow Many Snakes Hand and Haze Clone

Sorry about readding it... Wikipedia was being strange. I thought it lost what I did so I re-did it. Anyway, just wondering, if it isn't Hidden Shadow Many Snakes Hand, then what is it? Just Hidden Shadow Snake Hand or some strange power Orochimaru has?

Also, for the Haze Clone, what was wrong with the picture exactly? If it isn't the right jutsu, what is? - Yami Wheeler 01:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Many Snakes is unveiled in the timeskip. Orochimaru shoots dozens of snakes, not a single one. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

As for Haze Clone, what you pictures is the genjutsu clone thing. Haze clones creates identical replicas. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Do you know which Ep that might be used in so I can add it to the list? - Yami Wheeler 01:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Haze Clone is in the same episode after the oil clones. Snakes are manga-only. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yup, I meant the Haze Clones. Thanks. - Yami Wheeler 01:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kusangi

Is there only one Kusangi that Orochimaru aquraired somehow or is it a technique that one does to a sword to make it stronger? Saskue is said to have the sword, but it doesn't seem to be anything but a katana that he augments with other jutsus. If its known if its one or the other shoudn't a note be made on this.Seekquaze

The one Sasuke has is just a regular sword called "Kusangi" because he may have respect for Orochimaru's blade and just copied the name.Sam ov the blue sand 21:05, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh? And that's the reason why he never speaks to Orochimaru in a respecttive manor? I'd say the shape and abilities of the Kusanagi depends on the one who summons it (provided that Sasuke WAS the summoner). 217.208.25.18 02:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Red Secret 7 Swordsmen Puppet?

I was looking at the the picture of that technique and i saw a guy with a big sword so i thought maybe hes one of the 7 Swordsmen of the Mist maybe someone could check it out and confirm this for me. Thank you. Serpent000.

I noticed that as well, and there's actually a couple puppets with overly large weapons. But, until Kishimoto explicitly says that they were one of the Seven Swordsman, it's pure speculation. ~SnapperTo 21:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that out for me Serpent000.

[edit] Gaara's unnamed technique

"Without giving it a name" makes it sound like me made the attack up on the spot and never bothered to name it. "Without naming" it can mean that AND just not mentioning its name. As we know from the databook, it has an actual name.

[edit] Living corpse reincarnation

there are things i dont understand about the living corpse reicarnation, like why they changed the name to something stupid like immortality jutsu. i know it has an article but there are still more things about it, i know it. can someone explain the living corpse reincaration for me please? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kai hyuuga (talk • contribs) 16:20, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

We can't tell you any more than what you can read here already. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:48, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

ok

[edit] Kusanagi Sword

Anyone who has a good guess how long Orochis Kusanagi Sword is?Jacce 17:37, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

It isn't much longer than Orochimaru's arm so i'd say probaly 3 feet. Temari of Wind13 01:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's only by original length, when he extends it, we kinda get a first hand explanation why Kusanagi is called the "longsword of the heavens". 217.208.25.18 02:27, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chidori & Raikiri difference

Has Raikiri more difference compered to Chidori than just Raikiri dosen't need that much speed, has different color and uses more chakra?Jacce 18:59, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, Raikiri is a powered version of Chidori, meaning that Raikiri is stronger in force. Kakashi Hatake improved the strength of Raikiri, but the effect remains the same. Hiddenvillage 00:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Raikiri and Chidori are exactly the same. It is proven in the manga that Raikiri is simply a nickname for Chidori because Kakashi cut a lightning bolt in half with it. Yet for some reason people think they're different. Why? Someone on Wikipedia had the crazy notion that they were different, so put that on Wikipedia. And since it's Wikipedia, people started believing it, but i's not true! They are the same! Quote from Gai: "Chidori, or as it's also known, Raikiri"

Not to interrupt your ranting, but they are different, as they are listed as separate techniques in the databooks with different ranks no less. In spite of Guy's claim, they are different. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:01, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

It does not matter what the databooks say. They are not overlooked by Masashi Kishimoto, and so are not official. The manga is actually written by Masashi Kishimoto, which makes the manga much, much, much more reliable. Quote from Kakashi: "Chidori, or Raikiri as it's also known"

Whatever. Stay secure in your ignorance if you wish. The databooks do indeed have his oversight, as he contributes information to them (quotes, etc) and they are more canonical than your opinion. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:22, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Last Absolute Offense: Spear of Shukaku in manga?

Is Last Absolute Offense: Spear of Shukaku seen in manga. If not, it should be moved to the anime jutsu page and put an end to this argue.Jacce 15:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no. I absoultely can't remember it being used. If someone has read the manga more recently they are welcome to correct me. Retlor 01:43, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Last Absolute Attack: Shukaku’s Spear wasn't seen in the manga. Gaara only used the jutsu at Episode 220 for now. Hiddenvillage 01:00, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism???

I see in this article things like: "I like men" and "Chicken is good" but they aren't there when I try to get rid of them via the "edit" page. Can someone fix it?

[edit] Human puppet alive?

Does the person who is going to be a human puppet needs to be alive while transforming? It would be quite hard for Sasori to keep them still.Jacce 20:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes and no it wouldn't. There's all sorts of useful anesthetics for that, even in the Naruto world. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:19, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Raikiri

Is Raikiri really a seperate jutsu? If I recall, Raikiri was described by Guy while Sasuke was using the Chidori, and it was mentioned as a nickname for Kakashi's useage of Chidori based on an exploit (splitting lightning). Just by way of example, in the Dragon Ball world the Kamehameha is known by many. Goku can do more with it than anyone else, Roshi has a variant that Goku doesn't use, yet all are considered Kamehameha. Ditto Genkai and Yusuke's Rei/Spirit Guns. Onikage725 13:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Databook says it's a different jutsu, so it's a different jutsu. ~SnapperTo 17:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm basically asking so as to keep things neat. What does the databook say? Does it say it is a seperate technique or does it simply have a seperate entry. If it is just a seperate entry, then the fact that the series itself says it is the same technique should be taken into consideration. Aren't the manga and anime of higher authority? Correct me if I'm worng, because I don't have the databook. Again to bring the DB parallel- the Chou (super) Kamehameha, Ashi Kara (from the feet) Kamehameha, Magaru (Turn Around) Kamehameha, Renzoku (Continuous) Kamehameha, Shunkan Idou (Instant Movement) Kamehameha and Kamehameha Max Power are all given seperate entry in the Daizenshuu (Dragon Ball/Z databooks), but as they are all the same attack with slight variation we just have one entry for the Kamehameha. Likewise, while there isn't to my knowledge a list of Street Fighter techniques, some of the more notable attacks have articles. And while there are as many variants of a tech as there are users of it (for example, Hadoken), there is but one entry for each one, with notes on variants.

I realize that what article x does isn't grounds for a change in and of itself. I just think that those formats work better. If someone is watching (or reading) naruto, and Chidori is introduced, and it is mentioned that Kakashi has been given a nickname for it, the casual person isn't going to come here looking for two seperate and unique attacks. Onikage725 22:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Dragon Ball =/= Naruto. They're two different techniques, as Snapper explained. Your logic would necessitate merging shadow clones, every rasengan variation, and the like. Links to the different jutsu teach the difference, so merging is unnecessary. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:19, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I was drawing a parallel. Naruto is hardly the first series to have characters manipulate their inner energy to produce varied and interesting techniques and attacks. And to address Shadow Cones, yeah I think they should be merged too. Given that the third paragraph of the Kage Bunshin covers much of what the Taju Kage Bunshin does, all one would have to do to preserve its integrity in a merger is mention that Naruto learned it from the scroll written by the First and that he first used it against Mizuki. Having two articles for that is a waste of text, as the "multiple" version is simply the original technique done to an extreme. Onikage725 23:17, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

On the same note, it wouldn't too hard to merge the two already short entries on the other Rasengan techniques, and Rasenshuriken wouldn't really be that hard either. At the very least, these variants should go under a parent header and not be all over the article under their own first letter. Would it be fair compromise to have, say, a listing on Spiraling Sphere with sub-listings of the relevant abilities. Relying on links is an inefficient way of organizing. Onikage725 23:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Having a parent header isn't an awful idea. The only problem would be remembering which article which jutsu is under. ~SnapperTo 00:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking go with the main for the header. That is to say, if it doesn't have any descriptive words or nicknames abou it (i.e. Spiralling Sphere with the Wind Releases under it, Shadow Clone with the Multiple under it). Just for the record, Clone/Bunshin shouldn't count, being a fundamentally different technique. Onikage725 01:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Raikiri is Chidori to the next level. It's pretty much the same jutsu except the user uses more chakra.

What I want to know, though, is if the databook describes it as such. Cuz the way it is presented in the anime is that as Sasuke prepares Chidori, Guy describes it as Kakashi's only original move and that he once split a lightning bolt with it, earning the nickname Raikiri. That makes Raikiri a nickname for when Kakashi uses Chidori, and his looking a little different from Sasuke's is probably due to Sasuke being a less proficient user of the technique. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Onikage725 (talk • contribs) 11:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

There does appear to be a difference. I have no idea what that difference is, but according to the databooks, Chidori is an A-Rank jutsu while Lightning Blade is S-Ranked. What causes this? Execution speed, perhaps? Or sharpness? Maybe the amount of chakra poured into the attack, or the amount that is converted into electricity? Whatever the cause, there is a difference between the two, significant enough to cause a change in rank.

So to answer your question, yes: the databook acknowleges the two as different justu, though it doesn't mention what technical aspect causes the change in rank. You Can't See Me! 07:01, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but are the Databooks infallible? I know other sourcebooks aren't always 100%, as sometimes the writers use some interpretation. In this case, it seems to me, based on the series, that Chidori, when executed by Kakashi, its creator, qualifies as an S Rank jutsu and has a nickname (Raikiri). Chidori as seen when Sasuke executes it is an A-Rank jutsu. To put it another way, Kakashi created Chidori and taught it to Sasuke, who has been learning to master its use. Did Kakashi create two seperate moves? Does Kakashi ever do a "regular" Chidori? Onikage725 21:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

He was seen using Chidori in Kakashi Gaiden, which takes place about 10 years prior to the start of the series. So at some point in time he decided his version of the jutsu was different enough from Chidori to call it Raikiri. ~SnapperTo 21:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

That's my point though, right there! That last line. Unless I'm missing something, he doesn't designate a seperate jutsu. Think back to when we first see the move. Sasuke powers up for the Chidori. Guy then explains that it is Kakashi's only original jutsu. He explains the techniques name and adds that Kakashi supposedly once split a lightning bolt with the Chidori, earning the nickname Raikiri. That's what I mean when I say that it is flawed to present Raikiri as a different move. Kakashi's Chidori is simply better than Sasuke's (since obviously he's more proficient with it) and has been given a nickname due to a rumoured exploit. It isn't a second jutsu developed by Kakashi. Him using a more Sasuke-ish Chidori in Kakashi Gaiden would be best attributed to him being quite a bit younger. Like Sasuke now, he would have been less used to the jutsu at that point. Onikage725 13:19, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Genma

Genma's senbon isn't really hidden, but it does countain the "Mouth" and "Needle" aspects, as well as the bit about spitting it out to attack. Would any of you consider that to qualify for the "Hidden Mouth Needle" technique? You Can't See Me! 06:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chidori and Raikiri

The article states that Kakashi and Sasuke are able to effectively use Chidori because they can see every detail around them no matter the speed they are going thanks to the Sharingan. Since the Byakugan also does this (except it does it in a 360 degree vision), does this mean a Byakugan user can potentially use Chidori or Raikiri? 74.167.170.215 13:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello? 74.167.170.215 15:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi! ^o). Presumably —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jacce (talk • contribs) 15:33, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

I think so too. After all, the Byakugan and Sharingan are alike in many ways. Xepeyon 23:57, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Not likely. The point of the Sharingan is to detect the opponent's movements through its ability to pick up minute details, as well as its analytical abilities. The Byakugan merely allows the user to view everything around him. At the speed at Chidori and Raikiri are performed at, the Byakugan would be handicapped by the same flaw as regular eyes are - the opponent's movements are still difficult to see when moving at that speed. The Sharingan can, however, hence why it's necessary for the jutsu. Sephiroth BCR 02:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I have heard that Byakugan can show the opponent in slow motion, so if it's true a Byakugan should be abel to use a Chidori or Raikiri. I think Neji used it (the slow motion) against Kyodaigumos children, Kidomarus summon spider. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jacce (talk • contribs) 16:11, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

The slow-motion is just there for dramatic effect. Things still happen in real time. You Can't See Me! 07:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)