Talk:List of nationality transfers in sport

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[edit] Inclusion

[edit] Brigt Rykkje

He originally competed for the Netherlands, then for Norway and now for the Netherlands again. I would say that fits under "moved to compete for another country". The "Players who could have chosen to represent more than one country due to their parentage" clause is for people who theoretically "adhered" to several nations, then chose one of them without having represented another. Punkmorten 11:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that Rykkje didn't make a nationality transfer: he already had Norwegian nationality from birth. He simply chose between his Dutch nationality and his Norwegian nationality. AecisBravado 12:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Childhood

Someone else re-added Jelena Dokic, I re-added Vanessa Atkinson and I already added Tatiana Golovin and Martina Hingis. In my opinion these names should be in this list as they do not match the childhood rule in the examples on top of the page.

Players who moved to the country they represented in childhood. Frequently, the home countries of such players are former colonies of their future countries (such as Patrick Vieira, born in Senegal but moved to France in childhood). Another example of such a player was Marcel Desailly, a Ghana-born player who was adopted in childhood by a French diplomat and raised in France.

I indeed agree that people who moved abroad from former colonies in their childhood are not wanted in this list, like the players named in the example. But Yugoslavia-Australia, England-Netherlands, Russia-France and Czechoslovakia-Switzerland are in my opinion totally different. In this case the sporters did not change nationalities to a former colony, but to a totally different nation that has nothing to do with the nation they were born in and thus qualify for this list. SportsAddicted | discuss 06:58, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that the move of these players is not a nationality transfer, but rather common migration. Perhaps they should be added to List of sportspeople with dual nationality, a parent of the List of football players with dual nationality. If the consensus is to include emigrants in this list, however, Richard Krajicek, Miroslav Klose and Lukas Podolski should not be omitted. AecisBravado 19:38, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
The way I see it Podolski and Klose should be part of the list, while Krajicek should not as he is born in the Netherlands and represented that country. I do see your point, and maybe we should create such a list for dual or multiple nationalities as well. SportsAddicted | discuss 22:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I copied the criteria directly from List of nationality transfers in football, for consistency. They were added there by Darwinek, but I can't trace what those criteria are based on and where they have been discussed. I believe that the regular contributors to List of nationality transfers in football should be notified of any discussion on changing the criteria, as well as well as the Wikipedia:WikiProject Sports and the Wikipedia:WikiProject Football. AecisBravado 15:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Figure skating by country

A problem I have with sorting figure skating moves by country is that some skaters have moved more than once. Therefore, I think it makes sense to have all the skater's changes in order that they happened. Putting it in order by nation jumbles it up and makes it confusing to follow where skaters actually started from and where they ended up. Kolindigo 17:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

There is a way to show that, as I have done on List of nationality transfers in chess. If it's the first transfer, you put one country in the left column and the others in the right, with the other countries in chronological order from top to bottom. With the second transfer, you put two countries in the left column and the others in the right column. The chess players with multiple nationality transfers are Erich Eliskases, Igor Vasilyevich Ivanov, Savielly Tartakower and Mark Bluvshtein. It's not the perfect solution, but it's better than nothing. AecisBravado 19:35, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Looks a little awkward. How about I put numbers next to it, like (1) for first move and (2) for second? Kolindigo 01:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Even better. I'll see if I can think of a better way. AecisBravado 01:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Are Israel and Turkey European or Asian?

There is some discussion at the List of nationality transfers in chess about Israel and Turkey, that might extend to other lists of nationality transfers. Should they be sorted under Europe or under Asia? I believe they should be sorted under Europe, because both the Israel chess Federation and the Türkiye Satran Federasyonu are members of the European Chess Union. In just about every other sport I can imagine, Israel and Turkey have joined the relevant European confederation as well, instead of the Asian confederation. Any thoughts on this? AecisBravado 22:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I can't speak for any other sport, but in figure skating as well, Israeli and Turkish skaters compete at the European Championships and not the Four Continents (i.e., everyone but Europe) Championships. If the sport treats the countries as European, I don't see why a list of transfers shouldn't as well. Kolindigo 01:11, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree, in sports Israel and Turkey are commonly accepted as European countries. Maybe in some sports they are not, but in Chess they belong to the European Chess Union and they do the same in at least most other sports. SportsAddicted | discuss 06:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

There has been some discussion on the second criterion for this list ("Players who moved to the country they represented in childhood"), the key question being whether people like Jelena Dokic, Miroslav Klose and Lukas Podolski meet the criterion or not. The suggestion was made to limit this criterion to former colonies. However, the discussion is still ongoing, and at the moment the criterion still stands. I therefore suggest removing Dokic, Klose, Podolski and others from the list for now, but keeping track of them at User:Aecis/Nationality transfers. When the discussion has reached a conclusion, we can either put them back in, or add them to a new article List of sportspeople with dual nationality. Any thoughts? AecisBravado 13:28, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

That's fine with me. SportsAddicted | discuss 16:44, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of sportspeople with dual nationality

I have created a List of sportspeople with dual nationality. The intro was copypasted from List of football players with dual nationality, the layout is based on this article. Any feedback would be welcome. The list would be for children of mixed-nationality marriages, for children of expats who have attained the nationality of the country their parents moved to, and for people who moved to another country at a young age. Any thoughts or suggestions? AecisBravado 12:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nadia Comaneci

I have removed Nadia Comaneci from the list. She is a Romanian athlete, who defected to the US long after her retirement as a gymnast. While her past as a gymnast certainly played a role in the coverage of the defection, it had no effect on her sports career. She was not a sportsperson anymore when she defected, and it was not a nationality transfer in sport. AecisBravado 13:14, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Andreas Zuber and Robert Doornbos

I haven't found any reference about their change of nationality. --necronudist 21:08, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding Andreas Zuber, see for instance:
I'll see if I can find the proper references for Robert Doornbos later today. But he was listed on the result list of the Friday trainings with a Monegasque flag right up to the middle of this season. AecisBrievenbus 21:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I've found at least one reference for Robert Doornbos. The FIA qualifying classification for Robert Doornbos' debut GP, Germany 2005, lists him as "Robert Doornbos (MON)" ([1], position 17). AecisBrievenbus 00:15, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sortable tables

After a recent mishap with me sorting a few tables alphabetically instead of by to nation, I want to suggest that we consider the use of the class "wikitable sortable", because this allows the user to then select if they want to sort by athlete name, or see all the athletes leaving a particular country or going to a particular country. An nice example would be Equestrianism. The new table would look like this:

Name of athlete From nation To nation
Jos Lansink Flag of Netherlands Netherlands Flag of Belgium Belgium
Samantha McIntosh Flag of United Kingdom United Kingdom Flag of Bulgaria Bulgaria
Franke Sloothaak Flag of Netherlands Netherlands Flag of Germany Germany
Meredith Michaels-Beerbaum Flag of United Kingdom United Kingdom Flag of Germany Germany
Jessica Kürten Flag of United Kingdom United Kingdom Flag of Republic of Ireland Republic of Ireland
Sven Rothenberger Flag of Germany Germany Flag of Netherlands Netherlands
Susan de Kleine Flag of Netherlands Netherlands Flag of Netherlands Antilles Netherlands Antilles
Eddy Stibbe Flag of Netherlands Netherlands Flag of Netherlands Antilles Netherlands Antilles
Jean-Claude Vangeenberghe Flag of Belgium Belgium Flag of Ukraine Ukraine

Sure, the colours look a little different, but that's not too serious (it's fairly standard at least). Lemme know if anyone else thinks it's a good idea I can convert it I guess? Deon Steyn 07:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Never saw that feature, it looks pretty neat to me actually. The only thing I don't like, but that's hard to solve is that is sorts the names by given name instead of surname. SportsAddicted | discuss 08:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Only bumped into it recently myself. I see also, that we don't need to sacrifice the current colours, by just using class="sortable", i.e. we don't need to use the wikitable format/colours. I think this makes it a no-brainer really. We don't lose/change anything, but we add sortability. Deon Steyn 08:43, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree, this simply improves the article. SportsAddicted | discuss 10:42, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Cool, I have changed it and it seems to work with the exception of Yugoslavia for some unknown reason, but all in all I think it only adds value. Deon Steyn 11:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I bumped into it at WP:OP a few months ago, but to my shame I must admit that the thought never occurred to me that the feature could be used for this list as well. An excellent idea, which I definitely retroactively endorse :) AecisBrievenbus 12:43, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
One minor problem though: the tables sort by first name of the athlete, not by last name. I'm afraid this doesn't add to the clarity of that particular column. Is there a way to fix this? AecisBrievenbus 12:46, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Another editor also pointed this out and I couldn't find a solution (perhaps not sorting that column) with the quick check I did of this feature (on Help:Sorting). It still makes the feature useful for the remaining columns? Deon Steyn 12:56, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
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