Talk:List of grape varieties

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[edit] Old

There is a similar list of grapes for wine in the wine article and one for table grapes in the table grape article.

Do we need a separate overall list for grapes?

Brian Rock 06:51, 1 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Here's what I plan on doing: barring further feedback - I'll change the list of grape varieties article so that it points to the wine and table grape articles. I'll merge any uniqueness from the list article into the other two articles.

I'm going to wait a few days for more feedback. Personally, I'm on the fence about this one. If you feel I should do something else, let me know.

Brian Rock 14:26, 1 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The organization in the table grape portion of this list is a mess. A majority of the table grapes listed under Vitis labrusca are pure or near pure Vitis vinifera, and those listed under Vitis labrusca wine grapes are at least to some degree hybrids and are mostly not primarily wine grapes.Elakazal 06:13, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] suggest 1 list, pointers from elsewhere

I'd favour having a single page listing all grape varieties (probably classified or annotated as table, wine, whatever), and replacing the lists on the table grapes and wine pages by pointers to it - I think we are less likely to get duplication and contradiction that way. seglea 09:00, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Ok. Lacking any more persuasive feedback, I now plan on implementing Seglea's idea, if no one else does it first. I'll keep my ears open for a day or two more.

Brian Rock 02:25, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

You can't discuss wine (at least New World wine) without discussing grape varieties. If you remove the list it will inevitable creep back in. This page should be for an long in-depth list while the other pages show include only important varieties for that topic. Rmhermen 03:06, Feb 3, 2004 (UTC)

What I hear Rmhermen saying is "multiple lists". Since someone else has already added some grape varieties to the subject list, it is becoming what (s)he suggests. So now, I plan to leave it as is.

Pardon me for seeming to vacillate, but I've been agreeing with all the arguments presented. While I think the normal Wikipedia ideal is to minimize redundancy, in this case, it might be a disservice to rip out the list in the wine article. I think a free-standing list of grape varieties is also useful.

So, my plan now is - to do nothing, and to drop out of the discussion. It isn't that I don't care. I just can't decide.

Thanks for your interest, folks.

Brian Rock 03:31, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Well this list seems to be quite useful as it is now. We are going to have to add more soon when the redlinks run out... Justinc

[edit] Case

Grape names should not be upper case. Please move to lower case... Justinc 23:56, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please explain. Rmhermen 00:09, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)
er, why should they be upper case? I cant think of any reason. They are not proper names. Justinc 03:09, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
How are they not proper names? They aren't generic names. Rmhermen 13:56, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

I couldn't find a style guide or any sort of capitalization rules for grape varieties. Is there a desire to set a standard? I personally find it somewhat jarring to see Pinot Noir, Pinot noir and pinot noir in different wine articles. I asked a plant biologist about it, who said that it's personal preference although lowercase seems to be common in larger volumes, for readability. I do have to say that I prefer wine books with lowercase grape names; Joanna Simons is one such author who comes to mind. In conclusion, I'd like to see a standard style, and given the choice I'd prefer all lowercase. Walter Moar 05:18, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

It all depends on whom you ask. The Oxford Companion to Wine capitalizes, the New York Times does not. In fact, many of them are generic in their original language. "Pinot noir" just means black cone. On the other hand, chardonnay and many others are named after towns and regions. I tend to view them as varieties, like beefstake tomtatoes, and go for lower case. Is this the sort of thing that needs an official policy on the Wikipedia? I'm not really familiar with that sort of thing. Wnissen 18:04, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

I just checked Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life which says "Standards for capitalization of common names have not been settled on, except for Wikipedia:WikiProject Birds, Wikipedia:WikiProject Cetaceans, Wikipedia:WikiProject Primates, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Cephalopods, and should not currently be enforced." However each of those listed projects has agreed to a capitalized name. Project Cetaceans says "There was once a long debate about the capitalization of bird species on Wikipedia. The debate was backed by lots of research on both sides, but also became quite acrimonious. Call me a great wet lettuce (or Lettuce) but I for one hope to avoid repeating that debate, and get on with article-writing. Thus I propose we just borrow the convention from the bird project and then not worry about it too much. That is, capitalize species names when you write them in articles." I would suggest that we follow here as well. Rmhermen 18:08, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

In general, the usual rule is not to capitalize the words which are descriptors (generally "noir", "blanc", "gris", etc.), and to capitalize the ones which aren't ("Franc", "Sauvignon"). Of course, if you dig deep enough, many of things turn out to originally have been descriptors that aren't treated that way now. I have to say I'm really stunned that the Oxford Companion to Wine and other wine books don't obey this convention, as it seemed pretty standard when I was working in the grape/wine field. I also personally think cultivar names ought to be in single quotes when in text, which also improves readability. However, it gets tough to deal with here given Wikipedia's use of single quotes. Elakazal 06:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Wines from Wikiproject Missing Encyclopedic Articles

There are some wines listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Grocer's Encyclopedia. Most of these wines are not a big deal in the scope of wines and probably don't require their own articles, but we could use some expert help as to how to categorize them here. Then we'd leave redirects. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks. Jacqui★ 20:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

This is a list of grape varieties, not a list of wines. In New World wines, they are often named by type of grape but Old World (European) wines are more often named for locations or vineyards - these wouldn't belong here at all. Rmhermen 22:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
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