Talk:List of famous smokers

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 25/9/2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus.
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on March 30, 2007. The result of the discussion was NO CONSENSUS TO DELETE.

Contents

[edit] Converting the list

It looks like the vote for deletion will soon wipe out this invaluable source material. Let's preserve it here, and use it to identify the really iconic smokers' and/or the peculiar ones, until the conversion is complete.

I have preceded most links with an Google Image Search Link for easier verification. (some generated links may be missing or invalid)

Especially Bob Marley (what subheading should he go under?), Patsy Stone and Sherlock Holmes seem to embody the idea of iconic smoker - according to the not always equally omniscient google.


Please check if I didn't make some crucial mistake, and add some of your own info. Especially peculiar things about smoking habits and of course iconic status would be greatly appreciated.

-- Zanaq 20:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Markup

  • Outdented items (:*) are currently in the list, while indented (::*) items are not :).
  • bold items are "verified" iconic or weird (special) smokers.
  • stricken through items are "verified" not-iconic and totally unremarkable.

[edit] Delete

Undisputed wholly unremarkable smokers may be removed later to better sort out the shades of grey.

I didn't know where to put this, but Clint Eastwood has said in the special features of the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly that he hates the taste of tobacco and doesn't smoke. So I mean though his character "The Man with no Name" smokes cigars (not pipes) does that make him an Iconic smoker.

[edit] The List of Smokers

Please edit and/or markup the list below to assist in the conversion process.

[edit] Famous cigarette smokers

What kind of cigarettes did Johnny cash smoke? What was his brand of choice?

some unremarkable uniconic smokers have been removed. see the old list.

* [13] John Lennon - former [14] Beatle, singer and songwriter (deceased)

[edit] one-time smokers

No remarkable one-time smoker has been found on the old list

[edit] Famous cigar smokers

some unremarkable uniconic smokers have been removed. see the old list.

[edit] Famous pipe smokers

some unremarkable uniconic smokers have been removed. see the old list.

  • [49] Vincent Van Gogh - painter (deceased) several of his self-portraits feature the pipe.
  • [50] Harold Wilson - former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Even his portrait-painting shows him prestigeously with the pipe

[edit] Cannabis smoking

  • Steve Jobs - I recognize that he smoked pot, but it is not reported on the docudrama Pirates of Silicon Valley, AFAIK. I have watched it more than once, and didn't notice any reference to his cannabis smoking. Steiger 03:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
  • The Beatles - something special to report on the beatles' cannabis use?
They were notorious as a group in the sixties. Perhaps we could mention them as individuals, Paul McCartney getting busted in Japan is a classic, SqueakBox 16:45, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
I'm all for adding the classic japan incident under Paul McCartney. That would be great to have! But were the Beatles notorious for smoking cannabis in the 60s? Zanaq
Yes! They encouraged millions by their example, SqueakBox 16:54, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

[51] is a source, SqueakBox 16:58, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. The buckingham palace thing is a real nice addition. Zanaq 17:06, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] fictional characters

The Old list has been completely converted.

  • Duc de Richleau and his friends Simon Aaron, Rex Van Ryn and Richard Eaton smoked and adored Hoyo de Montereys cigars in many Dennis Wheatley novels.
The smoking does not seem to be a really major aspect of these characters, nor do they smoke in peculiar ways. Or do they?

They were real cigar connoisseurs, and it was ver y much a part of their identity, of the Duc and of the group. In the first published novel The Forbidden Territory the Duc smuggled 50 Hoyos and 2 pistols into Russia via the Brit Embassy. They are finally caught by the Russianaa agents after landing in a plane in a field and use their last moments of freedom to smoke their last Hoyos. Yes, they have to be here, at least as iconic as Sherlock Holmes, Popeye, etc, SqueakBox 17:46, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

I've tried to make that clear in the text now. sorry for earlier removal.Zanaq 18:01, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] An Iconic Photo

Maybe we should include this photo to illustrate this page. It's pretty iconic, you must admit. - Rlw (Talk) 18:48, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Let's do it. Zanaq 18:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. How about this one too? An iconic weed smoking pic, SqueakBox 19:03, August 21, 2005 (UTC) thumb|left|250px|Bob Marley

Added some more photo's and tried to create some nice captions too. Anyone got a pic of Patsy Stone waking up? Zanaq 19:43, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality and L. Ron Hubbard?

Okay, so I add LRH to the list because he WAS a smoker. Well, when I come back I find a link to a critical site. Now, a critical site has every right to be here. You need critique for neutrality. BUT, and here is the problem. The link has absolutely NOW PROOF that he said this. I clicked the link at the bottom of the anecdote and it let me to a website that doesn't exist. A dead link. So, I believe I will remove this link until verification of his saying this can be found.

Just being a smoker doesn't seem enough to be on this list. He should be iconic or really weird. for example that fun medical advice. or something else that is actually true. -- Zanaq 21:56, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
Removed some smokers, including L. Ron. Hubbard. Added above until something significant arises. Zanaq 00:06, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mr. Tiger

  • Usman Tiger - Famous Pakistan journalist and counter-culture icon, best known for his Articles and a famous player in Cards

He does not show up in any search [52] [53] [54] maybe one of these Usmans? (Note the red above). Zanaq 12:30, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] solid snake

video game iconic smoker -- User:210.23.173.146, 13:21, 26 September 2005

Hi, thank you for pointing this smoking character out to the community. (I signed your comment for you).
That would become an entry under Fictional Characters, something like:
However: just smoking is not enough to be on the list. He doesn't seem to smoke on his pics. On his wikipedia entry the smoking preference is the last one in the list. Compare with Patsy Stone and Sherlock Holmes.
Maybe you can add something "special" about his smoking-habits? Good luck and thank you. -- Zanaq 15:30, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

In the first game he hid the smokes up his ass shouldn't that give him enough right to be on the list

[edit] James Dean

James Dean is far more of a smoking icon than John Lennon, he is widely regarded to have made smoking 'cool' and a sign of youth rebellion. Therefore, I think he should be included in the list of iconic cigarette smokers. [13:14, 4 January 2006 81.131.151.93 signature added by Zanaq 21:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)]

That's just fine: just assemble some nice facts, assemble those into a nice package, and add it to the list: it could use expansion in some area's. you may want to sign your comments with four tildes. ~~~~ Zanaq 21:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, why isn't James Dean on here? The king of Sweeden is on this list, but not James Dean or Kurt Vonnegut? 12.216.63.60 22:02, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't see no king of no swedes on no list, man. ;-). You might wanna heed the advice I gave the factgiving but unsigning user above, in stead of being an unfactgiving yet signing user. :) Zanaq 21:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deceased

I think the "(deceased)" texts should be returned. It might come in handy to know that someone is still alive, without having to click through to the article. Zanaq 06:45, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't see that it's critical information - there should be enough here to explain who the people are, and everything else is left on the articles. On this list in particular, it seems a bit suspicious - it might suggest to readers that all these people had died of smoking related diseases. (It wasn't smoking killed John Lennon, I'm fairly sure.) I'm perfectly happy for it to mention those people who did die of lung cancer etc., but to just have "(deceased)" with no explanation seems a bit random and unnecessary. — sjorford (talk) 09:10, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
It doesn't take up that much space, and for people who died of smoking that fact should be, and is in many cases, mentioned additionally anyway. I wouldn't call it "critical" but it does help reading the list in my experience. Zanaq 09:43, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Furthermore: nowhere is suggested that "deceased" has anything to do with their smoking, I think suspicion is unwarranted. When scanning the list one should have a global idea of who a person is, and whether they are alive could be considered "critical" in that respect. Extended descriptions of deaths unrelated to smoking have been purged in most cases. Zanaq 09:48, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm still a bit worried that the 'deceased' tags may provide a slight political twist to the article. Of course, real tobacco-related deaths would hold some relevance. Would it help neutrality to remove the 'deceased' tags and use years of birth and death in a parenthesis next to the names instead? - GSchjetne 23:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I would welcome the increase in information that would provide. And if not deceased yet something like: (1899 – ). Zanaq 09:57, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Exactly - and I'd be mightily impressed to hear of a smoker born 1899 and still living ;-) I think the use of dates would be beneficial and in line with many other lists. "Deceased" may conjure something negative up in the minds of the reader, and I think that is not surprising, given that smoking is a contentious issue and that the main reason we are told not to smoke is that we will probably die because of it. It looks a little bit like a value judgement - yes I know this is interpretation - but to me it looks a bit like a list of smokers with an additional comment of "see how many of them are dead". "Deceased" in bold text is unlining the point. Marlene Dietrich lived into her 90s so perhaps smoking did her no harm, Johnny Cash's death was more a result of diabetes than tobacco dependency, and James Dean killed himself by his reckless driving before his reckless smoking had a chance to. This would not be clear to anyone who had never heard of these people, or knew little about them. Who is to say they will click onto their articles and read that smoking did not kill them? I think dates would be better : nice and bland, factual, encyclopedic and offering nothing that could be misinterpreted as either a judgement or a health warning. Rossrs 14:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
I've added some information to some entries to clarify their deaths, without getting too lengthy. For example, with Golda Meir, I added "She was diagnosed with lymphoma at the age of 65 and died of its complications 13 years later. People can decide for themselves whether the death was related to smoking. When it just says (deceased), it may imply, as you say, that the death was absolutely cigarette related. In many cases it was, but not always. Crunch 04:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serling

Was he already listed? I'm pretty sure he was cigarettes, but I've seen surprisers here. Like I thought of George Sand as a cigar smoker, for example. I even read a biography of her.(She did smoke a pipe at times I thought, but I guess I believed she was known for cigars)--T. Anthony 14:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Purged again

Removed from the list because the remarkableness or iconicness has not been shown.


I kind of knew Selma Diamond wasn't really known enough. Although as her "image"/character was primarily known for being a smoker I thought mayve. Still as she's not known enough herself to be iconic it's cool. Well in least Serling worked as an addition, correct? I didn't add any of them to make a point although I feared it looked like I did.--T. Anthony 13:19, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
It doesn't matter how well they are known or if the are iconic. It is the smoking itself that should be iconic and/or special, and the nature of the iconicness and/or specialty should be clarified in the article. Zanaq 11:01, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] woman

I'm leaving the following women as a form of affirmative action

but some more iconic and/or remarkable facts would be nice. Zanaq 11:03, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Personally I'd take Spears off. I'd keep Simpson as women who, even just occasionally, smoke cigars get some kind of extra attention. There's no real need to affirmative action it for women. Fact is internationally there are a good deal more men than women who smoke. Norway is the only country I ever read about where women smoke more then men.--T. Anthony 13:17, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
That's ok by me. Zanaq 11:01, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not Credible Ano Additions

in stead of removing completely, moved here, because the list is very US/Europe centric.

  • Vipin Tyagi - India Best looking smoker for the year '05; Founder Member - Lords of the Back Bench; Supports Juventus FC.
  • Deepu Jacob Thomas - India TIME Smoker of the Year 2005; a chain smoker, deepu was seldom seen without a cigarette in hand,and the only smoker to get caught by RS.Founder Member - Lords of the Back Bench; Brand Ambassador - Shanky's Shack. Supports Manchester United FC.
  • Abhiroop Datta - India Also called 'The Angry Young Man of Smoking'. Awarded the Bharat Sahitya Akademi Honorific Roll for his work on Innovation and Creativity in Obscenities. Brand ambassdor - ITC (By Marriage). Prefers Navy cut to Marlboro. Is a budding guitarist and a strict follower of the 'Cobain hands-free smoke strum' school of thought.
  • Khalid Ghulam Mohammed - India One of the first, if not the first Smoker of the Batch of 2004; Prefers Insignia and Classic to Navy Cut. Unfortunately, has cut down his cigarette intake because of Doctor's orders.
  • Mohsin Alam - India TIME Hypocrite of the Year 2005; Voted Most Wannabe Smoker of the Year; Iconic Choot figure at NALSAR.

[edit] more purging

none of the following entries signify the significantness of the smoking

  • Greta Garbo-Stills of Garbo smoking were "morally disallowed" in the U.S, (Deceased) -> sure she is a pipe smoker?
  • Bing Crosby-pipe shape "bing's favorite" named after him. -> this has nothing to do with himself, nor his smoking, or does it? if so: it should say so.

Crosby's image was as a man with a pipe. Watch almost any 1940s cartoon parroting him, in one case with an actual cartoon parrot, and they have the character with a pipe. However whether pipe smoking was something Crosby regularly did in reality I can't say.--T. Anthony 09:19, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Those are facts that would earn him a place in the list in my view. Zanaq 16:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

thesethe following are borderline cases. it would be nice if someone could add something even more remarkable.

  • Milton Berle - American comedian, who was usually seen with a cigar.
  • Rod Serling - Often had a cigarette in hand when introducing episodes of the The Twilight Zone.
  • George Burns - American comedian, who was almost always seen with a cigar in hand when performing.

-- Zanaq 22:38, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Berle, Burns, and Serling are pretty clearly not borderline so I'm wondering if you meant the ones above them are borderline. George Burns was given a tribute by cigar afficianado[55]. It was also a part of his jokes and routines in several cases.[56] Serling is not as clearcut, but the standard image of him is introducing an episode of the Twilight Zone with cigarette in hand.--T. Anthony 09:19, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
I just think that those things should be clarified in the article, so the reader may judge their inclusion in the list. for the NPOV etc. I did not purge them, nor do I intend to do soon, I just hope some more facts will be added. Zanaq 16:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
I think I made it clearer on Burns. I guess I figured him and cigars were so tied together I would've never considered the need to clarify it if you hadn't asked. It's like Tina Fey wearing glasses or Marlee Matlin being deaf, I guess I'd assume if you know who the person is you know that aspect.--T. Anthony 07:22, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bing Crosby

Did Bing Crosby actually smoke a pipe or was that just his film persona? I ask that as I don't see him there.--T. Anthony 08:43, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chappelle

Dave Chappelle smoked weed in the past and is a cigarrete smoker now a days. He was smoking on inside the actors studio and did a skit that mentioned it. i would consider him pretty iconic. he's viewed as the best thing since pryor by many.--Jaysscholar 18:41, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deceased (2)

Specifying for each smoker whether or not they are deceased gives the impression that their cigarette smoking had something to do with it, which isn't always the case, for example James Dean or Theo Van Gogh.

See also #Deceased. It doesn't explicitly state so, so it is all in the mind of the reader. Zanaq 19:53, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree this is somewhat misleading. Cigarette smoking did not cause the death of all of these people and itsirrelevant to add this information. --GShton 06:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
In any case it shouldn't be boldface. Better is to remove causes of death unrelated to smoking that people keep putting in, and removing uniconic smokers that keep creeping in. — Zanaq (?) 08:02, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to include the (Deceased) after it already mentions it?"James Dean - American actor and icon, who smoked 2 packs of Chesterfield cigarettes a day. He died on a car accident. (Deceased)" Why does it need to mention he died in a car accident and still say deceased? Why would this information even be included when his death was not smoking related? --GShton 03:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
This is a clear example of causes of death unrelated to smoking that people keep putting in, and should indeed not be included. Another option is replacing deceased with date of birth/death. — Zanaq (?) 08:08, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I still dont see why listing Deceased next to the names is necessary. Should Deceased by added to every list of people? --GShton 08:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
When it is a highly heterogenous list with diverse people - most of which I never heard of - some kind of contextualization (like when they lived) is required IMHO. At minimum this is their country and their occupation and some timeframe - and I think this applies to any highly diverse list. — Zanaq (?) 11:50, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hookah smokers

anyone know of any iconic hookah smokers--User:kunal arora 20:14, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ulysses S. Grant

Grant could not have begun smoking cigars in 1962 since he died in 1885. Did the author mean 1862 at Fort Adelson?

"Ulysses S. Grant- 18th President of the United States... He began smoking cigars at Fort Adelson in 1962..."

Must be, lol 1962. Ulysses S grant in the Vietnam War ROFL. TheKillerAngel 15:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aydo Abay

Aydo Abay - The frontman of the indie rock quartret Blackmail. Often seen with a lit cigarette in many of the promotional photos of the band, he has been seen smoking in interviews and music video sets with one.

A german-turkish singer is famous as an iconic smoker in the english speaking world? really? --Charlesknight 19:15, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nigel Harman

Nigel Harman, British actor who is a smoker in real life; he also smoked on television when playing the part of Dennis Rickman in the BBC soap opera EastEnders.

He's an iconic smoker? really? If you asked the british public about people they'd associated with smoking they's say "little den"? honestly?

I've seen some terrible pages on wikipedia but this almost takes the biscuit - half of those people are just people who smoke with no iconic association attacked. --Charlesknight 22:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] US President

George W. Bush is not a famous cannabis smoker so stop putting this rubbish in the article, SqueakBox 18:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I repeat, stop putting this crass rubbish in here. George W. Bush may have smoked cannabis but he is not a famous cannabis smoker, SqueakBox 14:44, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Walt Disney

...Was a chain smoker. He died because of it. He should be added. --Bjmp11 18:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)Bjmp

[edit] This article is a total disaster.

This article has got to the point where any celebrity who has been photographed smoking is included. "Tony Yayo"? I really have no idea who he is, he certainly doesn't belong in this "iconic" article alongside Bette Davis and George Burns. This article needs MAJOR pruning. PatrickJ83 21:49, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Who is "Judy Duke" (Wonderful mother of five)? I edited a few passages, including the deletion of this person, but all changes were reverted.

It should be noted that Humphrey Bogart did not die of lung cancer, as listed, but from throat cancer.

[edit] This page is somewhat hidden.

This page is somewhat hidden. I searched for such a page, couldn't find one, so started a new one (Nicotine users). Now I have to merge them. Sufficient links within Wikipedia should have been added. Korky Day 22:34, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I won't merge them quite yet, since there is some overlap. For instance, Laura Bush is not here because she tries hide it, but doesn't deny it. See her article. Korky Day 22:46, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Put "iconic" into the trash.

Looks like the editors are trying to phase out the "iconic" qualification. That's good. The article should list all prominent smokers. Readers want to know! So please quit complaining that someone isn't "iconic". Korky Day 22:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Bu****it. PatrickJ83 22:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion Vote - Typical for Tobacco Propagandists

In every generation there is a deep seated need among the more sheepish of society to have someone to look down on, be better than, and have more perks than, all without resort to any merit whatsoever.

In this generation it is the smokers and soon to be the obese. In other words those with behavioral and/or appearance differences from the commoners of the crowd. This is a result of the legal and moral inability to effectually discriminate against those of more typical differences such as race, gender, caste, etc. Those of limited merit will always seek the most vulnerable victim.

The most obvious evidence is the vote to delete pages such as these, while retaining pages referencing famous people killed by smoking, which fits the anti-smoker propaganda exactly. To cite a single example of the mentality, where a smoker dies before the actuarial age expected and attribute the cause to smoking, where a smoker dies even long after the actuarial age expected the longevity is not attributed to smoking.

In keeping with this propagandist purpose of such Wikipedians I suggest that when this topic is deleted they also delete the articles on Common Sense & Logic, and revise the article on Tolerance to exclude scapegoats.

DasV 18:47, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pruning per AfD close

This article survived (barely) a nomination for deletion (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of famous smokers); but everyone agreed that it needed major work, specifically sourcing and pruning. I have pruned the first two sections (cigarettes and cigars) by removing people that, in my personal opinion, are not particularly famous and/or for whom the smoking is incidental, not part of their persona. Generally, I think the list should be limited to people who are pretty dang famous, otherwise it'll get way too long.

Pruning the pipe and pot sections I leave to you. Carry on, and fear no evil. Herostratus 04:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

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