Talk:List of cocktails

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This mixed drink or bartending-related article is supported by the Mixed Drinks WikiProject, a project to improve Wikipedia's materials related to mixed drinks, bartending, and related subjects. This is one of the best articles within the scope of our project. While we would love to improve it even more, please discuss on the talk page any proposed changes before making them to preserve the integrity of the article.

Classification: A

[edit] Archived Discussions

Older discussions have been archived. Start new comments below.

[edit] Policies specific to the List of cocktails

Please consider the following to be "mini-policies" that apply only to the List of cocktails article. Edits may refer to these policies by number (e.g. removed LoC-3).

1. Only true cocktails (drinks made primarily with distilled spirits mixed or layered with another liquid other than water), should be listed in the List of cocktails. Consider these other articles and lists: Beer mix, Wine mix, Non-alcoholic mixed drink, Cocktail garnish, Mixed drink shooters and drink shots, Flaming beverages, and Drinkware. ^{Read and Read}

1.1. Fictional beverages (like the "Flaming Moe" and "Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster") belong in the List of fictional beverages, not here.^Read

1.2. Layered shots may be listed here, but should be included in the Mixed drink shooters and drink shots article as well.^Read

2. New drinks added to the list should meet Wikipedia's standards for inclusion, especially notability and citability.^Read This article is for real cocktails that were historically or are commonly available today at typical drinking establishments.

3. Differences in name alone do not justify multiple listings. Use "or" for minor variations in spelling when there is no article, with both names bolded and listed alphabetically ( Tom O'Hawk or Tomahawk ). If one name has a linkable article, it must be listed first ( Boilermaker or Jimmy & Guinney ). When mutliple alternate names exist, use parentheses ( Carbomb (also known as Irish Carbomb or Belfast Carbomb) ). ^Read

4. Minor variations in ingredients do not justify multiple listings. If one ingredient may be substituted for another, use "or" (Tia Maria or Kahlua), or explain the substitution at the end of the recipe (151 Proof Rum can be substituted for the Everclear). For more significant variations, list the most traditional style first, followed by the variations (see Three Wise Men for a good example). ^Read

5. Brand names.

5.1. Generic ingredients should be listed (Irish cream, coffee liqueur, etc.), unless a specific brand is necessary to create the drink (Herbsaint Frappé, Jäger Bomb, etc.). If there is one brand more commonly used over competing brands, it could be listed parenthetically after the generic ingredient.

5.2. Proper brand names should be linked to their main article (Coca-Cola, Crown Royal, etc.), and proper names should be used instead of common names (Coca-Cola rather than Coke).

5.2.1. Dr Pepper' (no period after Dr) refers to the [[soft drink, and Dr. Pepper (with a period) refers to cocktails that only resemble the taste of the soft drink. Dr Pepper is a registered brand name, and should only apply to the actual brand, not things reminiscent of it.^Read

5.3. Generic spirits and ingredients do not need linking, unless it is fairly uncommon or the link helps to distinguish or differentiate potentially confusing or similar items. Linking every occurrence of the word gin or whiskey only makes it more difficult to read the article.

6. Matters of style.

6.1. The standard formatting is a bullet (*), a space, three apostrophes ('''), the possibly linked drink name, three more apostrophes ('''), any additional names (see LoC 3), a space, a hyphen (-), another space, and the ingredients listed roughly in the order they are used to prepare the drink. Additional instructions or interesting information follows the ingredient list.

6.2. User proper references for anything that may be considered an opinion or that makes a claim.

6.2.1. Use the <ref> element for inline citations of information, or

6.2.2. Use one of the Wikipedia:Citation templates if one is appropriate.

[edit] External Links

I have noticed that several sites continue to be added and removed from the External Links list. Reasons given include removing spam links and reverting vandalism. At least one of the sites listed as a spam link is one I added, and I added it because I find it very useful in researching cockails for this project. Another site that gets linked regularly is one I find fairly useless by comparison.

Without setting a hard limit, it would seem like five external links would be about right maximum number of links for a list this size. Ideally, all the links should offer good information with minimal overlap of duplicate information (although drink recipes should be pretty consistent by their nature). In evaluating sites, I look at simplicity (how easy is it to locate the information you need), completeness (a recipe index of 2000+ drinks is arguably more useful than one with only 20), usability (everything from a logical layout and site structure, to tools that help you in your research), professionalism (site design is clean; relatively spam and ad free, or if many ads are present, they are relavent and not misleading or intrusive; proper spelling is used; references are given frequently; etc.), and the emotional appeal of the site (is it enjoyable to surf the site?). --Willscrlt (Talk·Cntrb) 17:53, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current Discussions

[edit] YourNextDrink.com

• "Your Next Drink aka. Droogle" - Massive online drink search engine

Information

This is my website, I been running it in one form or another since 2001. Since then it has grown

substantially in size and popularity, I believe it would make a good addition to this page.

Voting and Discussion

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.2.142.7 (talk) 18:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] VideoJug.com

• "How to Make Cocktails" - Over 200 video demonstrations along with written instructions, for mixing a variety of cocktails (hosted at VideoJug.com)

Information

I came across this this while rewriting the Bellini article. Wow! I estimated 219 different videos on how to make various cocktails. If they are all as good as the Bellini video, then I think these should become a standard link on every article for which there is matching video. Yeah, it will probably bump up their search engine ratings if we do that, but I think the the value it would add to our articles would be terrific. --Willscrlt (Talk·Cntrb) 15:44, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Voting and Discussion

• KEEP per my nomination above. --Willscrlt (Talk·Cntrb) 15:44, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
• KEEP well described. no obvious commercialism, e.g., bottle labels are turned away from camera. Philvarner 03:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Archived Discussions

The following discussions have been archived and arranged in alphabetical order for easy reference. Please do not modify these discussions. If you have something new to add, start a new proposal under Current Discussions above.

[edit] Featured list?

This article would make a fine "Featured list". It'd probably need some more references (featured articles always do). It's a very nice list of which Wikipedia can be proud and so it should be recognized. Peer review is the usual first step towards featured status. -Will Beback · † · 07:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Duncan MacLeod???

"Duncan MacLeod - Coca-Cola, mixed with equal parts of Scotch whisky and sake over crushed ice. Named after a fictional character from the Highlander series, where an English actor (represented by the Coca-Cola) plays an immortal Scotsman (the Scotch whisky) with a Japanese blade (the sake)"

Firstly, the film Highlander does not feature a character named Duncan MacLeod. There is a Connor MacLeod, but he is played by American-born French actor Christopher Lambert. Also, even if he was an English actor, why would he be represented in a cocktail by Coca-Cola, surely the most famously American product in history? Highlander Tashcat_uk 20:10, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah, having researched this further, i see that there was a television spin-off of the highlander series, in which an english actor did indeed play a character named Duncan. I stand corrected, however i still don't think any Englishman would be happy to be 'represented' by Coca-Cola. A more appropriate soft drink would be Irn-Bru, or a cola drink from its Scottish manufacturer, A.G. Barr. Irn-Bru I've just mixed this variation using ballantine's pure malt 12 year old, and hakutsuru sake, and it isn't bad. Not sure if irn-bru is easily obtainable in the US, but if one wanted to use an english soft drink, one could try Britvic. Tashcat_uk 20:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Living in California, I've never seen or heard of either Irn-Bru or Britvic. Coca-Cola, obviously, is much more readily available worldwide. There probably are some specialty food or beverage shops that carry them, and maybe even some British styled pubs. Either way, that's how the recipe was originally recorded, when I transcribed it. The meanings were not as clearly attributed to the specific ingredients as I have in my rewrite of the original deleted article, but given the three meanings, I don't see what else would make sense. I thought that it was rather a stretch as I typed it in. If there is a sense that the symbolism is offensive, the drink could be removed. I am a bit dubious of the notability of the drink anyway. --Willscrlt 09:29, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Couple more drinks?

Link for mind eraser doesn't work properly - I'm a n00b and am not sure how to find the one it should redirect to... Sorry --Crashvirus 14:00, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. There does not appear to be an article for the drink. I removed the link and added the description. This appears to be a fairly uncommon cocktail (maybe not in your area, but in the grand scheme of things). --Willscrlt 23:30, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Also - I noticed a few I knew that weren't listed. I added Vodka Sunrise but didn't create a page for it. a Quick Fuck (abbreviated to QF for those of us not wishing to call it something such) is a variation of a "Shit on Grass" (sorry again - I don't know if there is an abbreviation for that, i'm going to refer to it as an SG just here)

SG - Khalua and midori, served as a shot, the midori is poured onto the baileys from a bar spoon so that it sits in layers. QF - Khalua, Midori, Baileys. Served as a shot, same as a SG but with an extra layer of baileys. --Crashvirus 14:20, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

You did a good job on the Vodka Sunrise entry. I'm a little confused because you state that the grenadine, added last, sits on the bottom. I assume that it, but that seems backwards. I assume that as the grenadine sinks to the bottom through the other liquids that it leaves a bit of red throughout, becoming more intensely red as it lands on the bottom. If that is correct, then I will update the description to make that a little more clear. Otherwise, it was perfect. Not every mixed drink needs or warrants an entire article. Articles should only be created when there is a lot of background and cultural information available that explains why the drink is important historically, in pop culture, or both. Otherwise, the brief reference you gave is all that is needed.

I have also added entries for SG (no alternate names found) and QF (also commonly referred to as a Quick Fox). Thanks for the suggestions. --Willscrlt 23:30, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps a page of "XXXX variations" would be good, e.g., Vodka variations, Brandy variations, for drinks which sub a spirit. For instance, a Rum Sidecar is a variation of a Sidecar that doesn't warrant it's own page. A Vodka Sunrise is an uncommon variation of a Tequila Sunrise, so... As for the QF and the SoG, maybe a "novelty drink" page would be good to store these, e.g., drinks that are popular only because of their name. Of course, many of these quite obscene, so maybe it would be best to keep them off.

You're right about the grenadine, it's very thick and sinks to the bottom. If it went in first, it would actually incorporate into the drink because of the agitation of pouring the other.

Philvarner 03:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Compliments

Nice useful page. Someone should try to get turn this into a featured list. Maya Levy 22:23, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to both Will Beback and Maya Levy for the compliments and suggesting the nomination. I would like to request that any such nominations be delayed until 2006-03-01, which is the date the Cleanup Project on all the cocktails and mixed drinks is scheduled for completion. I am still doing a lot of work on the article, nearly every day as I make changes to all the other related articles. I'd love some more help, so if you are interested, please visit WikiProject Cocktails for more information. Thanks! --Willscrlt 23:36, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where everything went

You might notice that lots of things are missing from this list. That's because they all have their own new articles now. These are the changes I made in the last 18 hours or so:

New pages

• Beer mixes - Just a start; it needs a lot of help still.
• Cocktail garnishes
• Drink mixers
• Flaming beverages
• Non-alcoholic mixed drinks

Massively improved pages

• List of cocktails
• Mixed drink shooters and drink shots

Still to do

• Drinkware
• Wine mix - Anyone want to take a whack at this one? It will include wine punches, too. See Beer mix for a staring point.

I hope everyone likes the work I have been doing. Comments? Rants? Compliments? :-) --Willscrlt 14:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Layout/style

What is the consensus about the level of detail in this list? There appear to be three competing styles:

• Bronx

• Chocolate Soldier - 1½ fl oz gin, ¾ fl oz vermouth, juice of half a lime; shaken

• Alexander - equal parts gin, creme de cacao, and half and half, mixed in a cocktail shaker with ice, and poured into a cocktail glass. Sometimes topped with grated nutmeg or cinnamon. The Alexander may be the ancestor of both the White Russian and Brandy Alexander.

Is it the intention that each cocktail be followed by a brief description of its contents? If so (and I would support such a move) there are a LOT of cocktails which need explaining, even if it's mostly just extraction from the main article. What's the consensus?

Hi Happy-melon. The intention (as sort of explained at the top of the list) is to have a list of links to full articles.

• Full article links should only have additional information following the link, if 1) it has alternate names, 2) is an IBA Official Cocktail, 3) needs disambiguation, 4) some other information that helps people find the right article.
• If the drink does not have a full article, an extremely abbreviated recipe (liquors and mixers, their proportions, method [mix, stir, etc.] standard glass and garnish) and, briefly, any notable information about the drink is provided after the title. This avoids having a bunch of stub articles with this information, and it keeps the list to a manageable size.
• Any drink for which even that basic information is unavailable (i.e., the drink name only) is omitted from the list.
• Drinks that are covered within a different article should not be linked directly to the article, as that is confusing (if someone clicks Gibson and doesn't know a Gibson is a type of Martini, it's very confusing). Instead, a (see Martini) should be placed after the unlinked name so that readers know that the Martini article is where a Gibson is discussed.

In your examples, all three are correct. Bronx is a full article, properly linked. Chocolate Soldier is a drink with very little information avaialble. Alexander is a drink that earlier had a stub article that was condensed into this reference. It is longer than most of the drink notations, because there was a little more information available to add. There was not, however, enough to warrant an entire article when what you see here is all the information there was available.

What is bad is when there is a link and a description of the drink. The redundant drink recipe information clutters the list. One has to be careful, however, because often the links were added by well-meaning people who linked to something other than the drink. (e.g., Mudslide to Mudslide) In those cases, removing the link and keeping the recipe is the proper thing to do; otherwise, you end up losing the drink recipe completely.

Ok thankyou for that clarification. However I'd argue that, while Alexander is obviously the least useful entry of the three, Chocolate Soldier is more useful than Bronx. If you've already had this discussion then please forgive me, but I'd think that it would assist people in knowing if they have the right drink if a very brief list of ingredients is included. There are probably also people who'll use this list to search for nw cocktails that they might like to try: for such people, a list of ingredients is probably all they're looking for. I'd advocate that the list would look more professional if all the entries followed the Chocolate Soldier format. By that reckoning, for instance, Alexander would become something like "equal parts gin, creme de cacao, and half and half, shaken with ice. Sometimes topped with grated nutmeg or cinnamon.", the last sentence being optional. Of course, it's important not to lose any of the information currently held in the list, so some drinks (like Alexander) would have to wait until proper articles can be created for them. Happy-melon 11:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I definitely see your point. Having just a name without any other information requires a click-through to see even if the drink you are clicking on is the right one or not. That is somewhat inconvenient. The alternative, however, is what we were dealing with before the cleanup. There were conflicting recipes, a random, incoherent mixture of information and formats, and maintaining it was extremely difficult.

Maybe there could be a middle ground somewhere. Instead of a recipe, per se, list a primary ingredient or two. Not a full recipe, just sort of a bit more disambiguation. That way, if someone hates pineapple, they won't bother clicking on the Piña Colada link. Also, it's the proportions that tend to be disputed (some people seem to like stronger drinks than others--go figure).

The most difficult thing I see is how to help other editors understand the preferred format. Most seem to understand that "link = no info" and "no link = provide info". I think that helping them understand brief info vs. very brief info could be quite a challenge.

I'm certainly open to new idea and suggestions.

As to Alexander, that was a separate article that never went anywhere. It was deleted and redirected to this list because there's not enough information to make a worthwhile stand-alone article. There will be more of those as the cleanup continues and we kill off more micro-stubs. Now, if someone could find a lot of useful information on Alexander (like I did for B-52 (cocktail), which had been deleted 2 or 3 times before), and can create a good article, that's a different story.

--Willscrlt 22:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, is there any conseus as to whether the description should deal in absolute quantities (eg 1½ fl oz gin, ¾ fl oz vermouth) or relative quantities (eg one part vermouth to two parts gin). I would suggest the latter, as cocktails can of course be mixed in any quantity. Happy-melon 19:50, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

As to proportions. Heh. There doesn't seem to be any standard yet. I copied your question to and continued the conversation over at the WikiProject style manual talk page on Measurements, since this is a Wiki-wide discussion, not just specific to this article. --Willscrlt 00:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Discussion to continue there. Happy-melon 11:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I would like to see proportions removed and replaced with links to the Bartending wikibook and external sites. Two reasons:

* people will constantly edit the proportions to be what they think is correct.

* it is essentially a recipe, which is not part of wikipedia.

comments?

[edit] Introduction

Hi. An anonymous user just edited part of the introduction I originally wrote, and it changes the meaning of the introduction quite a bit. I like both statements and wanted a broader opinion:

1. Two creations may share the same name, but taste very different from each other due to differences in how the drink is prepared.
2. Two creations may have the same name but taste very different because of differences in how the drinks are prepared.

In the first, the intent was to show that two very different drinks sometimes share the same name. In the second, it seems to show that the same drink can taste differently due to variations in preparation. I'm going to leave it as-edited, but I wanted to bounce it off of you to see if anyone had any other thoughts/preferences. Sometimes it's a lot of fun to see how things you type get re-edited into something new and different. :-) --Willscrlt (Talk|Cntrb) 11:54, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recategorization

Since this is actually a much bigger task than just changing this list, Discussion has been moved to Mixed Drinks WikiProject for discussion and planning. You do not have to be an active participant of the WikiProject to join in on the discussion. Everyone is welcome. However, you are also welcome to participate in the project if you like. --Willscrlt (Talk·Cntrb) 08:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Beer movement

I moved all of the beer-related cocktail content to beer cocktail. All of the ones listed here were either also on the Beer cocktail page, should have been on that page because the primary composition was beer, or were not important or did not exist. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Philvarner (talk • contribs) 08:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Cocktails that don't exist or are unimportant

This is intended as a list of cocktails which people have tried to add to this list that either don't exist or are unimportant. For example, if someone adds "The Woodpecker" and it's a drink their friend created the other night made of midori, triple sec, parfait amour, and grenadine, it doesn't belong. This entry is intended to document research and exclusions so that it's easier to see them when removed Philvarner 03:42, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

• "527- Equal Parts Lime Twisted Gin and Lemonade;stirred" - 2/11/07 - no hits found on google, never heard of it User:Philvarner
• Blak Celebration Philvarner 03:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Idiot Brandon Philvarner 03:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Mulato Philvarner 03:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Rf5 - Dr Pepper soft drink mixed with Bacardi Vanilla or original Bacardi white rum making an alcoholic Dr Pepper Slurpee. Philvarner 03:21, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Robert Graham - ⅓ Wray and Nephews White Rum, ⅔ Red Bull
• Rudi Wichepep - Rum and Diet Wild Cherry Pepsi
• Dirty Diaper - A shot of tequila in a shot glass, the inside of which has been covered with mayonnaise. (there is a drink with this name, but not description, and it is unimportant) Philvarner 03:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Ruben Libre - similar to a Cuba Libre; a mix of tequila, lime and cola. Believed to have been popularized at The Highlife, a bar in Springfield, Mo. Named after a customer who would always order the drink. (no google hits) Philvarner 03:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Snow Crash - Invented by Ed Cutrell, this involves scooping snow at high altitude and pouring equal parts tequila, light rum, vodka and tonic water with a splash of lime juice over the glass and drinking repeatedly until one crashes; named after the novel Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson. (no google hits) Philvarner 03:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Cocktails with grain alcohol"

At the moment I do not believe that the number of articles potentially falling into this category is sufficient to warrant inclusion. However let us collect a list of such articles below. If this list grows sufficiently we can consider adding it to as a list category. Happy-melon 08:53, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

• Tucker Death Mix - currently a redirect