Talk:List of civil wars

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I deleted Iraq Civil war, because it doesn't exist.

Contents

[edit] Contemporary civil wars

"Wars between factions or regions of the same country or province" is the definition I am going with, but I am not married to it. With that I mind, Chechnya is listed under Russia; Chiapas will be listed under Mexico; should Palestine be listed under Israel? For now it will, but that is up for debate (as is everything).

This is just a beginning, and I hope many of you with the interest will add, edit, and chime in.

  • "past ten years" is arbitrary. But I had to make a cut off somewhere. And I didn't want to limit the list only to "active" civil wars, because even the recent "inactive" civil wars are either still unstable, still have refugee situations, or still have to be resolved politically, socially, or economically.
  • Civl war naming convention: As far as I could find in one night's research, many of these civil wars don't have official names. So, I chose a simple convention and repeated it...Colombian Civil War, Angolan Civil War, etc. If you have or know of a better civil war naming convention, please help.
  • Articles on these civil wars: among the nations listed, their civil wars are mentioned in spotted areas in wikipedia, but articles dedicated to said civil wars do not exist. I hope to write some. I hope you write some.

Kingturtle 17:50 Apr 14, 2003 (UTC)

There should be dates or at least time frames next to each of the entries, so that they can be easily expired once the ten-year period passes. Without them, wars that ended but haven't got their own subpages need to be manually investigated in order to update the page. --Shallot 11:32, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)

[edit] list

I've integrated the list of old wars from the main article and moved the article to the more generic title. --Joy [shallot] 23:40, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Contemporary civil wars: criteria for inclusion

The list of Contemporary civil wars seems far, far too inclusive; I would expect that very few of them will be included as civil wars in next century's history books. For example, in the list of past civil wars, the Cuban insurgency of the 1950s which led to the overthrow of the Batista government is, rightly, not included, although in the later stages there was virtually an army of insurgents.

This is a technical distinction based on the scale and organisation of the parties, not a political issue (my "terrorist" is your "freedom fighter").

I have added a note implying this at the beginning of the section, but have not deleted any entries. 213.208.107.91 05:42, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Brothers' Civil War, 1067-1670

King Alfonso & King Sancho were at war for six centuries? Really? Binabik80 14:43, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Questions about 2 wars

Listing the Pelopennesian War and the war between Carthage and Rome (Punic wars) as "civil wars" is inaccurate because they were really separate cities/nation-states; not the usual definition of a civil war. They probably shouldn't be on the list. Am I missing something? FeanorStar7

I was about to ask the same thing. Maybe someone thinks Ancient Greece was a nation state? The waring states period of China also was not a civil war.Dejvid 16:16, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
The Warring States Period is different to the Peloponnesian War in that the Chinese states nominally acknowledged to overall rule of the Zhou kings until 256 BCE (i.e. for all but 35 years of the quarter of a millennium long conflict). In that sense I think it is as reasonable to class it as a civil war as it is to class the Japanese Warring States (Sengoku Jidai) as a civil war.

[edit] Order

Should we consider changing the order the wars are listed in so they are in alphabetical order rather than chronological order to make them easier to find? Or we could have separate lists in both orders though that would be more work to maintain. RJFJR 19:13, 28 September 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Iraq

I realise that this may be a hot potato, but how can anyone at present determine that Iraq right now is in a state of civil war?The.valiant.paladin 01:58, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it isn't really a full-blown civil war between Sunnis and Shites (there is some conflict, but that would be minor, compared to terrorism agaist U.S. troops and Iraqi citizens) as much as it is a religious insurgency against U.S. presence on the streets of Iraq. Not a civil war. - 70.109.72.185 21:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Probably being labelled a 'civil war' because there is an official Iraqi government and there is an insurgent force present in the state. The insurgents aren't only killing Americans - they're going after government buildings and citizens as well. The freddinator 15:59, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I'm going to include "Iraq" as a current civil war because it meets the criteria stated in the articles. The premise "they kill more Americans than each other" is simply not correct. There are hundreds of "sectarian killings" everyday including a shelling of a school yesterday. AStudent 11:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Carlist Wars

What about these three conflicts? They are Civil Wars in the strict sense of the term. (See Carlist Wars, First Carlist War, Second Carlist War, Third Carlist War)

[edit] Yugoslavia

Please stop removing the Yugoslav Wars from the article. --HolyRomanEmperor 16:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

How can someone put here wars on the territoy of the former Yugoslavia as "civil wars"? These aren't civil wars. By definition. The combatants haven't fought for the rule in the same country.
Croatia fought against Serbian attack and Serbia's try to annex Croatia and expel/exterminate Croats. Croatia hasn't fought to be the ruling party in SFR Yugoslavia.
Bosnia and Herzegovina fought against Serbian attack and Serbia's try to annex B&H and expel/exterminate Croats and Bosnian Muslims. B&H hasn't fought to be the ruling party in SFR Yugoslavia.
Kosovo Albanians fought for their independence, not for being the ruling party in Serbia. Kubura 07:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

All wrong. Both Croatian and Bosnian "governments" fought wars against their own ethnic Serb citizens, not against Serbia, thus both wars were civil wars. PANONIAN (talk) 21:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Serbia regular military and paramilitary units were on the territory of Croatia and Bosnia and Hercegovina, sent there to fight against those countries. Serbia fought against Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Croatia hasn't fought to be the ruling party in SFR Yugoslavia. Neither Bosnia and Herzegovina. Neither they both fought to be in SFR Yugoslavia. Kubura 09:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Kubura, a quick question for you: did the armies of the Republic of Serbian Krajina and the Republika Srpska include people who were inhabitants of Croatia and Bosnia? -- ChrisO 09:32, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, they did. Just like Volksdeutschers in Czechoslovakia, France, Poland, that put themselves in the service of Hitler, functioning as fifth column in those (and other) countries.Kubura 23:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Would you then compare Croats from Herzeg-Bosnia with Hitler too? PANONIAN (talk) 21:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
No, because Croats from Herzeg-Bosnia voted for independent Bosnia and Herzegovina (abbreviation:B&H). Croats from Herzeg-Bosnia defended B&H from Serbian aggression. Croats of B&H organized the defense of Bosnia and Herzegovina, while Bosnian Muslim leaders were thinking that "they are in good relations with Serbs, the Serbs won't do anything bad to Bos. Muslims". While Bosnian Serbs killed B&H Muslims later, at the same time Bosnian Muslim refugees retreated through Herzeg-Bosnia Croats-controlled areas to Croatia, where they lived safely in hotels and touristic camps, away from battlefields. Kubura 13:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Serbia DID NOT HAD A REGULAR MILITARY BEFORE THIS YEAR (2006). It was former JNA (Yugoslav Peoples Army) that fought there, but it was not main side in the war - the main side were LOCAL SERBS that were citizens of Croatia and Bosnia and that make these wars CIVIL. PANONIAN (talk) 12:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Than what, Panonian? Is Hitler's entrance in Sudets ("Sudetenland") "a civil war"? Is Third Reich's attack on Poland "a civil war", because Polish Germans have joined SS and Wehrmacht? Tell the Frenchmen, Belgians, Dutchmen that "it was a civil war", because local Germans have supported Hitler. Kubura 23:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Main side? You think that spoiled brat can terrorize neighbours without the big brother? That local rebelled Serbs could terrorize whole Croatia without the Serbia (whose personnel consisted major and key positions in federal army) behind their back? Serbia, which stood behind the Serb rebellion in Croatia? Which intensivly (since 1985) prepared the conditions for rebellion in Croatia, by planting the ideas to Croatian Serbs that they are "endangered" in Croatia? Kubura 23:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
You should first compare Hitler with the Croats from Herzeg-Bosnia, and only then with others. Of course, in both cases, the comparison is wrong because you cannot compare WWII events with those from Yugoslav wars, they are too different. And now it is federal army, not Serbian? So make up your mind, was it federal or Serbian army? And do you want to say that Serbs were not endangered in Croatia? Why then nationalistic HDZ government of Croatia changed status of Serbs from nation to national minority? And that was before Serbian rebellion started, of course. PANONIAN (talk) 21:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Serb-controlled federal army. Don't play stupid. Read again, I've wrote it many times. The army had the name "JNA", as ex-Yugoslav federal army had, but it was controlled by Serbs and Montenegrins. Croatian towns were shelled and occupied, not Serbian. Second, Serbs weren't endangered in Croatia. Third, Serbs are national minority in Croatia. That feudalistic-type privileged status of Serbs couldn't hold any more. What do you expect for the population that sided with outer enemy, that betrayed their own country? Bosnian Croats have fought for Bosnia, rebel Serbs fought against Croatia. Kubura 13:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

What a ridiculous claim! Serbia did not have a regular army before 2006??? What was then the name of the army that defended it? You really must think that everybody is that stupid to think that the former JNA (Yugoslav peoples army) simply vanished into thin air. Where did the Serbian citizens of Croatia and Bosnia & Herzegovina get their Russian combat planes, tenks, granades etc.? Whose battle ships shelled Adriatic cities? What army captured Vukovar, a Croatian border town? Whose army did the Serbian war criminal Mladic belong to? And why did the UN impose sanctions on Serbia if it had nothing with the wars in Croatia and Bosnia? 83.131.11.157 15:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The name of the army before 1992 was JNA (Yugoslav peoples army), between 1992 and 2003 name was VJ (Army of Yugoslavia), between 2003 and 2006 name was VSCG (Army of Serbia and Montenegro), and since Serbia became independent in 2006 name is Army of Serbia. I do not claim that JNA vanished, but that IT WAS NOT ARMY OF SERBIA!!! JNA was later transformed into 3 armies: army of Yugoslavia (FRY), army of Republika Srpska and army of Krajina. Army of FR Yugoslavia was not involved in any war. PANONIAN (talk) 16:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Look what you've just said. JNA transformed into... army of FRY, army of Republika Srpska and army of Krajina. You've drowned yourself already here. Army of FRY wasn't involved? Be serious. This claim nullifies your credibility here. Kubura 23:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Army of FRY was a NEW army of the NEW country, thus, that NEW army was not involved. PANONIAN (talk) 21:48, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually it was - you're forgetting Kosovo, which was (of course) a civil war. -- ChrisO 16:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I know that, I meant in any war he mentioned here (in Bosnia and Croatia). :) PANONIAN (talk) 17:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
JNA was later tranformed into 3 armies??? Are you kidding me? And what was the name of the institution, may I ask, that took the decision to tranform it into three armies? Was it the Serbian parliament? Was it the Balkan butcher and Serbian and Yugoslav president Milosevic? I mean surely a decision to divide an existing army into three separate entities must have been based on some legally-binding decision? But let's not beat about the bush any longer. You just made this up. Pathetic. 83.131.79.116 17:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
JNA was officially transformed into VJ, but was de facto also transformed into VRS and SVK. And Serbian parliament did not had jurisdiction over army, so it were institutions of Yugoslavia that made such decision. And pathetic thing here is your lack of knowledge about this. Maybe you should stop watching Croatian television until HDZ is in power (only a friendly suggestion). :) PANONIAN (talk) 12:45, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
JNA was officially transformed into VJ, but was de facto also transformed into VRS and SVK. I am aware that the Serbs have problems grasping law but are you being ridiculous on purpose or are you merely that challenged to think that your Serbian byzantine crap can fool someone? De facto? Lay off Latin for fuck's sake. It won't make your attempts to evade answering a simple question any less obvious. I am asking again: who took the decision to transfer weapons that belonged to the Yugoslav national army into the hands of Serbian paramilitary groups in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina? What is the name of the official body that sanctioned this transfer of Russian Migs, tenks, heavy artillery? Btw, just a "friendly" information. You might like to know that the HDZ has been in power since 2003 so I guess I don't have to wait for anything. You know, there is a world beyound that shit-whole of a country that Serbia is (or whatever its name is at the moment) 83.131.84.20 14:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
"A Serbian byzantine crap????" Hahahahahaha LOOOOOOOOOL Seems that you have serious problem with understanding of reality, but anyway, I will repeat what I just already said: it were institutions of Yugoslavia that had jurisdiction over military issues. And I know that HDZ is in power in Croatia, but seems that I did not said my advice correctly: you should not watch Croatian state television until HDZ leave from the power. HDZ propaganda obviously washed your brain, so stop watching TV because your brain damage could be permanent if you continue. PANONIAN (talk) 14:43, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Which Yugoslavia transferred Russian Migs, tenks, heavy artillery into the hands of Serbian paramilitary groups in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina? Who took that official decision? WHO WAS IT IN BELGRADE WHO OFFICIALLY AUTHORIZED THE TRANSFER OF WEAPONS INTO THE HANDS OF SERBIAN PARAMILITARY GROUPS IN CROATIA AND BOSNIA WHEREBY THE LATTER GOT HOLD OF RUSSIAN MIGS, TANKS, HEAVY ARTILLERY ETC.? I mean, how difficult can it be to answer a question that the whole of the civilized world knows answer to? As for the Croatian TV, who are you kidding? Every single cable company in Serbia ILLEGALY distributes Croatian TV channels (in the civilized world that is called stealing, but hey it is Serbia we are talking about). Every newspaper in Serbia includes Croatian TV program into its TV guide. And as far as the brain damage is concerned, I think you might want to reconsider before paying that compliment, especially if you are going to re-edit every single messages of yours half a dozen times only to produce some pointless drivel. 83.131.4.243 15:58, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
I watch Croatian TV channels too, and that is why I know how much (anti-Serb) propaganda you can hear in "državni dnevnik" there. Regarding name of the person that gave order for weapon transfer, I do not know name of the person, but that is completelly irrelevant for the subject. PANONIAN (talk) 21:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
There is no such thing as "drzavni dnevnik" on Croatian TV, or any other Croatian TV station. Your accusation of the perceived anti-Serb propaganda on Croatian TV is laughable, especially in the light of the fact that the program of the Croatian TV is distributed by all cable companies in Serbia (another blatant example of theft on a national level and a good example of how far from European standards Serbia is). Also, every newspaper in Serbia lists Croatian TV channels in their TV guide (a bit strange for a TV station that you accuse of anti-Serb propaganda). The institution that offically ordered the transfer of the JNA weapons, air-planes, tenks etc into the hand of the Serbian paramilitary groups in Croatia and Bosnia & Herzegovina is one of the key elements that prove Serbia's participation in the agression on those two countries. Those weapons were not just snatched away. 83.131.78.113 11:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Maybe "državni dnevnik" is not its proper name, but you know what about I speak. And the person influenced by propaganda could not to recognize this propaganda very easy, so take some time. :) And please tell me the name of the "institution that offically ordered the transfer of the JNA weapons", and then we can conclude what that prove. PANONIAN (talk) 00:22, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Again Panonian, there is no such thing as "državni dnevnik" (what a twisted Serbian concept!) in Croatia, or in any civilized country. As for my understanding, the only difficulties I seem to experience appear to be related to your excellent English. As for the institution that offically ordered the transfer of the JNA weapons, it is up to you to cite it. After all you don't want to suggest you invented that whole story about "de facto transformation of the JNA", "jurisdictions over the army" etc. Indeed, Panonian, WHO WAS IT IN BELGRADE WHO OFFICIALLY AUTHORIZED THE TRANSFER OF WEAPONS INTO THE HANDS OF SERBIAN PARAMILITARY GROUPS IN CROATIA AND BOSNIA WHEREBY THE LATTER GOT HOLD OF RUSSIAN MIGS, TANKS, HEAVY ARTILLERY ETC.? Or should the whole world just take your word for it? 83.131.6.121 12:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
O yes there is "državni dnevnik" there, no matter how you call it (isti kurac drugo pakovanje). :) Regarding the institutions which had jurisdiction over military issues, I already said - it were institutions of SFRY and FRY. If you want to know names of the people that worked in these institutions in that time, I cannot help you with this. PANONIAN (talk) 14:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't turn the war into a political issue. HDZ is purged of most of its extremer elements. It is also in coalition with a Serb political party as we speak. Meanwhile, one of the most popular (if not the most) parties in Serbia is a self-proclaimed Radical Party...

Anyways, your own president told the Croatian Serbs to participate in this year's Oluja celebrations. If they can start moving on, maybe there's hope for even the two of you to discuss this civilly...

I'd just like to add one thing. The fact that Croatia charged FR Yugoslavia at the International Court of Justice (awaiting trial), shows that both Serbia and Montenegro can be considered accountable for the actions of the "Yugoslav" government of that time. --Thewanderer 02:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, the fact that HDZ is in coalition with Serbian party does not mean that it is "purged" (vuk dlaku menja ali ćud ne). Serbian Radical Party is also in coalition with ethnic Hungarian party in Bečej, and so much about these coalitions. :) Regarding charges, anybody could charge anybody for anything (that is how juristical system works), but the final verdict is important, not the charge. So, we should wait verdict to speak properly about this, should we? :) PANONIAN (talk) 15:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
And by the way, every Yugoslav war was mainly a political issue. Wars were started by Mafia (International tribunal proved that they were Mafia) with the single purpose that members of this Mafia become wealthy. Therefor, the main goal of the wars was a robbery of property, while ethnical and religious reasons were used only as excuse. And I talk about all sides that were involved in war, of course, so the stories about "patriotic defense of homeland" no matter which side use these stories are nothing but crap. PANONIAN (talk) 15:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Could you cite an ICTY verdict which proves that it was all down to "mafia"? It is simply amusing how you are desparate in your attempts to dodge answering any argument by resorting to complete nonsense. 83.131.78.113 11:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes I can cite it: http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/english/mil-ii011008e.htm See quotes: "Slobodan MILOSEVIC participated in a joint criminal enterprise" "This joint criminal enterprise came into existence before l August 1991 and continued until at least June 1992" "In order for the joint criminal enterprise to succeed in its objective, Slobodan MILOSEVIC worked in concert with or through several individuals in the joint criminal enterprise. Each participant or co-perpetrator within the joint criminal enterprise played his own role or roles that significantly contributed to the overall objective of the enterprise" etc, etc... A clear example that they were Mafia. PANONIAN (talk) 00:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Panonian, Panonian, don't play stupid! Why are you resorting again to the (in)famous Serbian Byzatine tactics of lies and half-truths? I can understand why you would want to obfuscate the true nature of the Serbia's role in the agression on Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo etc.. Let us then cite from your source:
The purpose of this joint criminal enterprise was the forcible removal of the majority of the Croat and other non-Serb population from the approximately one-third of the territory of the Republic of Croatia that he planned to become part of a new Serb-dominated state through the commission of crimes in violation of Articles 2, 3, and 5 of the Statute of the Tribunal. These areas included those regions that were referred to by Serb authorities and are hereinafter referred to as the "Serbian Autonomous District /Sprska autonomna oblast/ ("SAO") Krajina", the "SAO Western Slavonia", and the "SAO Slavonia, Baranja and Western Srem" (collectively referred to by Serb authorities after 19 December 1991 as the "Republic of Serbian Krajina /Republika Srpska krajina/" ("RSK")), and "Dubrovnik Republic /Dubrovacka republika/".
In the process the Serbian paramilitary troops robbed, pillaged, raped, murdered but it was all secondary to the main goal of the elected Serbia's leadership: the creation of Greater Serbia by an open agression on Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo. 83.131.6.121 12:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Would you play a little with logic here? The purpose of every "joint criminal enterprise" is always that participants in such enterprise benefit from it. The purpose of "joint criminal enterprise" simply cannot be an ideological cause such is "Greater Serbia". The "Greater Serbia" rethorics was sometimes used by members of that "joint criminal enterprise" simply because they wanted with it to cover their true goals. Their true goals were to abuse power as long as they can and to gain personal benefit from it. To say that "Greater Serbia" (an ideological cause) was a goal of an "joint criminal enterprise" is against every logic indeed. PANONIAN (talk) 14:52, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

You've drowned yourself again. Read what 've you wrote. Expansionism in action is not criminal action? Kubura 13:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American Civil War on this list?

Should the American Civil War be on this list, or should it be on the wars of independence list? Although it has been named a civil war, it technically was fought over secession, which would make it a war of independence. In other words, the southern states were not trying to overthrow the government in Washington, they simply did not want to be ruled by it. Any thoughts? --J8427 20:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it definitely should, not least because almost everyone refers to it as a civil war; it's not our job as Wikipedians to invent new terms because we don't like the terminology that the majority uses. See Wikipedia:No original research. -- ChrisO 09:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't suggesting we rename the American Civil War to be something else; there's all kinds of crazy things that some southerners call it. I was questioning what list it should be included in, considering the type of war it was. J8427 18:31, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Israeli War of Independence not a civil war

I removed Israeli War of Independence. It was not a civil war, because the conflict was not between the central government and one or more rebel forces. It was a war between newly-forming Israel on one side, and Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon on the other side, none of which ever had sovereignty over what became Israel. Thus, it was a conventional international war, not a civil war. There was not an existing country from which Israel was seceding; Israel was simply declaring its independence at the end of the British Mandate of Palestine.

[edit] Yugoslav wars?

Someone removed it from the list (one of) and explained it by "removing an insult"?...? --PaxEquilibrium 00:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Algerian war

I heard the war in Algeria began in 1989, not 1991. Any thoughs?

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