Talk:List of characters who move at superhuman speeds

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[edit] Not just comics

This page doesn't just discuss comics, so "List of comic book speedsters" is inaccurate. I believe it should be reverted to "List of speedsters in fiction", as television programs are also included. Thoughts? --Psiphiorg 22:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Uh...no. Read Speedster. Hell, just read the dab suffix. Some idea tried to extend it to other stuff a long time ago. They were wrong and their mistakes are being corrected. Category:Fictional speedsters was moved to Fictional characters with the power to move at superhuman speeds, which is inherently different. The term originated as a part of comics and refers exclusively to comics. Furthermore, Another user, one of the "Ace" Wikipedians, even offered a chance to discuss the definition at Talk:Speedster (comics). The final result was some jackass changing the article for the worse. Ace then probably realized discussion was pointless and stood firm on the same position I'm now defending.
It's comics. Not a robotic race car, not comedicly fast anthromorphic Lonney Tunes, Hodgehogs or anything else not originating in comics. Abroad term that cab refer to anything which "runs really fast" in fiction is pointless. Might as well just call it Superspeed and Superhumanly fast fictional characters. Izzy Dot (talk | contribs) 23:28, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Ahh, okay. I saw that you had reverted an edit in a Heroes article, and though I didn't remember you as being one of the "regular" Heroes contributors, your comment "Protect can only do so much, right? Oh...the annoyance." made it sound like you were, so I got curious in what other edits you'd made. I saw a series of comic book page moves, but the title of the one about "fiction" seemed out of place, and I thought you might've been automatically been changing the titles of several pages in WikiProject Comments, and caught this one by mistake.
Looking more closely, I now see that these different article titles were all the same page. I guess I should have read through the history before suggesting the change here. --Psiphiorg 00:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
P.S. Do you know why your signature links to Special:Contributions/Izzy instead of Special:Contributions/Izzy Dot?
Not that it's relevant, but I was one of the unregister users (GIPUs) who editted there before the protection. I had registered a lot earlier, but with limited success. (Autoblocked cause of some other guy.) Ultimately, the latest protection inspired me to try using this account again. The moving was a mistake. "comicxs" instead of "comics". I'll be more careful. The contribs link was also an error. I'm batting a thoushand. Izzy Dot (talk | contribs) 00:30, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

"The final result was some jackass changing the article for the worse." - I presume that you mean me? I contest the validity of your edit summary that said the page move was done without discussion. I was attempting to revert a page move that have been done without discussion (a single comment that wasn't even on this talk page does not constitute a discussion). [[WP:BOLD|Being bold is fine, but when opposed, a discussion should follow. I also think you might consider your tone, and assume good faith. Right now, I realise that there are a few who wish to make this a "comics only" article, even though that's not what it was (see the earliest edit:[1]). The proper way to do that would be to leave this one as either List of speedsters in fiction or List of fictional speedsters, and create List of speedsters in comics, moving the relevent information to the new page, and placing a {{main}} link on this one. The POV arguement should cease. I'll see about having the article reverted in order to clean up this page move mess. - jc37 00:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey. "Just another Ace" here. First off, Izzy, I'd have to agree with JC on your tone. Please try to diss people like that. We're all Wikipedians here and we're all trying to help the project in our own way.

Jc, on the other hand, you're being a bit of a hypocritic. The shortness you're showing Izzy combined with an apparent lack of consideration for his argument don't help anyone or anything. Now, I admit, I, too, was a bit upset that you simply editted the article—which I assume you were not even watching—to revert my necessary change add an unseemingly picture. I mean...the title is "Speedster (comics)", not "Speedster (fiction)". The term is comics exclusive. The only reason this list was created and that article written the way they were is a misapproproation of terminology long ago. A "speedster" could refer to a lot more than the meaning used in comics. In and out of fiction it could refer to cars, for example. The proper meaning and use is in comics. This is not a simple POV, it's fact. The term isn't used outside of comics. It does not simply mean a fictional character who can move at an extremely quick pace. This is why characters like Sonic and Speedy don't cut it.

I'm sorry you and Psi were a few of the unfornate people confused by one persons misappropriation long ago. I should have stepped in to stop it back then, but I was still inexperienced. It won't happen again. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 00:21, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

First, I don't believe anything I said above was uncivil. Though I do apologise if you somehow felt that it was.

Second, this article isn't reliant on Speedster (comics), which, btw, is a stub, and which this list predates. (Speedster (comics) previously dealt with Thomas Shepherd / Speed (comics).)

Third, most of those characters that you so seem to wish to remove, are comic book characters, as I mentioned in my edit summary.

Fourth, as I mentioned above, the initial creation of this page by CovenantD included those characters that you wish to remove.

So I might suggest that perhaps you've got a POV issue (this edit summary - "(Revert. Bad point, but it gave me an idea.)" - would seem to confirm it.

In any case, I stand by my comments above. - jc37 00:41, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

While I understand your point, here's the truth of the matter:
  • Those "comic book characters" did not originate in the medium. That's like saying Robin is comparable to Luke Skywalker as a "movie character", or Luke is comparing to Kazama, Jin, as a "video game character".
  • The Captain—CovenantD—probably just misunderstood the term, just as many others have. You can contact him if you'd like. Or maybe I will... Hmm.

Now, we could debate this all day, but the bottomline, if you'll forgive me, is that your point/side/argument/etc. is wrong. The term is being applied properly now and yes, it's my shared POV that it should stay that way. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 01:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey. I'm Izhmal. I'm sorry my edit was seen as a "POV removal". I was just trying to fellow the definition layed out by Speedster (comics). Now, saying the stir it seemed to have caused, I guess I should pick a side...

Sorry, Jc, but I agree with ACS and Izzy, despite their methods and bluntness. The meaning I've now for the short time I've spent getting into comics doesn't really apply to every superhumably fast fictional character in the spectrum.

Oh and sorry for being so..uh...seemingly slow to respond. School and HW, y'know? Izhmal (User page | User talk page) 01:39, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe the term is appropriate to apply to speedsters in sci-fi/fantasy fiction in general. Nightscream 05:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I know a guy who seems to believe Superman's gay and Batman's a child molestor. He's blocked now. Simple truth: one person's POV = not worth enough to radically change articles. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 07:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I find it interesting that you consider my position to be "one person's POV", but do use this label when discussing yours, much less analogies to homosexuality, child molestation, and allusions to being blocked. Such comments aside, both you and I have a POV, if you want to call it that. The difference is that in stating mine, I present the reasoning by which I reach it, which is that there is no underlying logic or argument why this term has to apply only to comics, and that no one has provided any. Thus, it is reasonable to conclude some may consider characters in other media as such. There is nothing "radical" about this, nor do your arbitrary and at times uncivil comments warrant deleting such material from articles. Nightscream 10:01, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Informal move

Hey. Ace here. First, I just wanna say this is an informal move proposal. Anyway, here goes: it has been proposed at Speedster that this page be renamed to "list of characters who move at superhuman speeds" are something similar. Support? Oppose? Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 04:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

As I mentioned there, I don't have a problem with using "speedster" in this context, with the (comics) disambiguation. (See also several discussion(s) at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics.)

For the two articles, I suggest the following:

  • Speedster (comics)
  • List of speedsters in comics and animation

However, I might not oppose the longer:

  • Characters who can move at superhuman speeds ("fictional" is presumed due to the use of "superhuman.)
  • List of characters who can move at superhuman speeds in comics and animation (the really long form : )

Though I truly prefer the first choice, rather than the longer choice.

Hope this helps. - jc37 05:25, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I support "list of characters who move at superhuman speeds. I know it seems like a strange change, but good points in favor of this were made, and I came to the same epiphany as Ace. Qualifiers like medium mentions are unnecessary and hamper our generalization attempt. Best not to try and slap on "speedster," either. Sorry. Izhmal (User page | User talk page) 04:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scope

Is this list meant to include characters whose only superhuman attribute is moving at superhuman speeds, or can it include characters, like Superman, who have several superhuman attributes with superspeed being just one? Primogen 18:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

That's a good question. I think it's an arguement to use "speedster" in the article title, since the current name (per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (precision)) would indeed include Superman, Captain Marvel (both DC comics, and Marvel Comics versions), among many others. : ) - jc37 12:28, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] With Help

Can characters be included if they use a talisman to move at superhuman speeds? -WarthogDemon 07:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

In other words, Jackie Chan Adventures characters? Uh...no. I've seen the series. Anyone can do virtually anything with the right talisman/item in that show. This list should be reserved for those whose powers are inherent and/or their key/primary ability, not just some guy(s) used a magic rock once. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 08:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
That was one show I was thinking of. I had others in mind; that was just an example. I'm an editor, not a rabid tv fan which I'm wondering is what you've mistaken me for... -WarthogDemon 08:45, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I haven't mistaken you for anything. You asked a question and I gave a thorough answer. I appreciate that you didn't just add characters (or a link to another list oof characters) to this page. However, you did mention a "talisman", which is pretty specific. More broadly, a character who uses a non-inherent medium to move at superhuman speed might count if it was a defining characteristic. Someone like Johnny Quick III, who used the blood of his predecessor(s) as a drug to induce his powers would definitely count. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 09:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
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