Talk:List of United States military leaders by rank

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[edit] Previously unsectioned comments

Reason moved: Style: U.S. not US …Guy M… L.V. (soapbox) 21:16, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

According to www.history.navy.mil/bios/dewey_george.htm George Dewey was commissioned Admiral of the Navy on 2 March 1899.

On July 25, 1966, the U.S. congress established the grade "General of the Army of the United States" for Ulysses S. Grant, and later appointed William T. Sherman (on 4 March 1869) and by Act of 1 June 1888 the same grade was conferred upon Philip H. Sheridan. The rank for Grant, Sherman and Sheridan is "General of the Army of the United States" not "General of the Army".

I removed Robert E. Lee from the main part of the list, but kept his mention at the bottom. While he certainly held a U.S. rank, "General-in-Chief" was not a Union, but a Confederate rank, and even if it was included as a rank of the United States, there is no way of knowing what rank/seniority to give it in relation to the others.

[edit] ACW

This is an odd list. It starts by saying that it is for 5-star officers, but 5 stars were not awarded until WWII. And if it is only 5+ stars, the article is misnamed.

Robert E. Lee was the equivalent of a modern 4-star "full" general [O-10] and his general-in-chief title in 1865 was not a promotion in terms of rank. In fact, Samuel Cooper continued to outrank him. (And Lee wore the 3-star insignia of a Confederate colonel!) If the title general-in-chief is noteworthy, recognize that two Union officers held it as well before Grant: George B. McClellan and Henry W. Halleck. Both were formally major generals [2-star, the highest rank at the time].

For my own sanity, I have limited myself to American Civil War articles, so don't intend to edit this one, but others may wish to correct the record. Hal Jespersen 02:56, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

True, 5-stars did not come into existence until WWII, but I think the point is that of listing 5 star equivalents, and also ensuring that this list does not become full with the listings of the literally hundreds (thousands?) of Americans who have been Generals in the last 200 years.
As for Robert E. Lee and General-in-Chief, he is not on the main list, but is merely a footnote, althought you might be correct in stating that General-in -chief is not a rank but a position - theere were Union Generals who held this position who were only Major Generals.

Lee is in the main table as it displays on my browser and then there is also a footnote. However, I'll point out another anomaly with the page: the first column, Order, is unexplained. Hal Jespersen 11:20, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I removed Lee - I thought he had allready been removed (see above discussions) - as for Order, the page says Listed by rank then seniority (date appointed to the rank) - Matthew238 01:25, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lee

I removed Lee again. I think from the above discussions that he should not be here. I also removed the note about him at the bottom, as General in Chief was a position, not a rank (If we included the position we should also include the Union generals with this position - yet this is not a listing of positions) - Matthew238 22:50, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] cleanup

Well, despite my saying I'd keep my hands off, I decided to clean up the page anyway. It probably should be renamed to be List of U.S. military leaders, 5-star and higher, but I don't feel like changing all the links to it. Hal Jespersen 23:02, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

  • I changed a little
  1. As is the custom, I only added a link the first time something is listed.
  2. I changed some titles - for example "General of the Armies of the United States" was changed to "General of the Armies", which I believe is the correct title. Same for "Fleet Admiral" etc.
    1. General of the Army of the United States and General of the Army are the same rank - the first being the proper title of the Civil War era, the second the proper title used in WWII (see main article)
  3. I left it without the ordering, yet this ordering might be usefull as it shows which ranks are equivalent (eg. Fleet Admiral = General of the Army), and which ranks are not (General of the Armies outranks General of the Army, and George Washington outranks them all - even though his rank is the same as John Pershing. - Matthew238 07:20, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

That info on who ranked whom would be better expressed in a textual way, rather than a column that says Order and has numbers in different fonts without explanation. Hal Jespersen 17:24, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup of January 2007

Ok, taking comments/questions/gripes/complaints on the new layout. Based it off of List of United States Presidents by military rank. — MrDolomite | Talk 21:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Order of Rank?

Now that I reworked the table, I realized I'm not sure if Grant's 4 star rank/title General of the Armies is really equivalent to the modern 4 star Admiral (United States) or General (United States). Speak up if you know and can WP:REF it. Thx. — MrDolomite | Talk 21:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

It is equivalent and it is footnoted in the Grant bio article. Hal Jespersen 01:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The First 4 Stars?

Also, I know that Alexander Vandegrift was the first |USMC 4 star, in 1945. But I wasn't able to figure out who was the first Army 4 star. Be bold if you find it. — MrDolomite | Talk 21:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Washington, Dewey and Pershing

Pershing's title was "General of the Armies of the United States," not General of the Armies [1]. He held the same rank that Washington was eventually awarded. So I have put the three of them together in the same section. Richard75 21:43, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Ah, gotcha, from here and his marker at Arlington it does confirm that Pershing had the GotAotUS "long title". Thanks for fixing that. But, by s:Public Law 94-479, Washington's GotAotUS is supposed to outrank all others. — MrDolomite | Talk 04:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Well I left Washington at the top of the list, but I am confused as well. It made sense when I thought his promotion was backdated to 1776 (according to some Wikipedia articles), but according to Wikisource and this website, as well as the page you found, it was only backdated to 4 July 1976. Maybe an Executive Order just overrides the normal rule of seniority by date of appointment. Meanwhile I am trying to find other sites with the text of the order, so I can straighten out the 1776/1976 problem. Richard75 20:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
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