Talk:List of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya episodes

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Contents

[edit] Day of Sagittarius (ep 11)

I think it's wrong to tell the end of the episode "The day of Sagittarius". Just an introduction will do just fine.

Can the person who added all the details for episode 11's triva explain them a bit further? I.e. why there is a Star Trek referens to the episode etc. Victor b04 01:14, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I saw someone said Nagato's battle bridge reminds him of Borg, but this may be misinformation. See here for Togo Heihachiro info. (Check Progress of the Battle of Tsushima, 05:05 and 13:55). 16:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Macross 7 parody, I think I remember Basara saying, "Battle/war is meaningless! Listen to my song!" While Haruhi said, "Previews are meaningless! Listen to my song!" ThunderCloud 04:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The Tchaikovsky piece is only used for the climax of the space battle, starting when Yuki begins her explanaion. Given the other details provided, that would mean the Shostakovich work was used as the main in-game music. I'll have to track down the symphony to verify, though. ModernComet 20:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Live A Live (ep 12)

Is the episode titled "Live Alive" or "Live A Live"? The katakana fits for either, and one fansub group went ahead and assumed "Live A Live." Any other opinions? --Crisu 21:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It should be Live Alive. It is the title that appeared in my official Chinese version of novel (The Agitation of Haruhi Suzumiya). Leeyc0 23:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Live Alive since it makes more sense.--Juhachi 23:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
The title is homage to Live A Live game.16:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm reading from one place that a "Live" is a shorthand term for a live concert. Since Haruhi performs a live concert in this episode, she is "living a Live", hence "Live A Live." --Crisu 15:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion, "Live Alive" make more sence since it implys Haruhi is "living in a excite, active way", as shown in the episode. Also, I think we should stick to official translation if it is already available. (It appeared in Chinese version of the novel.) --Leeyc0 01:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya IV (ep 10)

During the battle, Ryōko askes Yuki, "You love Kyon-kun, don't you? I know you have realized it," in sped up and reversed "incantation" Japanese.

That sounds so fake... Darkoneko 00:12, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree! Yuki is just interested in books and computers. Victor b04 01:18, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
You will find that what Ryōko says is not impossible, if you have read the novels. (There are also some hints that Yuki is gaining feelings day by day in the novel.) But again, I'd like to ask how to confirm this, e.g. the processed audio clip. Otherwise, I would also consider it being fake if no proof is found. I would also like to say that, if there is another trivia that is not obvious, please state that how to figure out. This anime is very hard to understand if you have not read the novels, and others may get alarmed that if someone mentions things that is not appearent in the anime, since it is not in the order of the novels published, and the anime is only a selection of the novels. (I bought all the novels after watching the first few episodes in order to understand the plot. (Chinese translated version, only the first 6 novels are published)) Leeyc0 01:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm also skeptic on the validity of that trivia. The only place where Ryoko says an incantation to Yuki in that fight is at 11:13 and lasts less than a second.--Juhachi 02:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Here are proofs. movie blog(Japanese)16:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
OK, although I am unable to hear anything in the video, I still take it for granted. --Leeyc0 14:02, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I can't hear anything in that clip. Is there a better one anywhere? -- Nate

[edit] Ouendan and other questionable trivia

While Haruhi is clearly in male cheerleader uniform, this is more likely to be a direct reference to male cheer squads (which is the literal meaning of ouendan) than the video game. Call it common background.

The Escaflowne reference strikes me as rather tenuous. Any sources to indicate intention or why they would choose to make such a brief homage to another series?

--Confucious 17:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Watch the opening of Escaflowne! The first scene is exactly the same as the first scene in Haruhi's opening, with Hitomi replaced by Haruhi! Seriously, just watch it, I'm not talking about a bit similar, I'm talking about being exactly the same. The correlation with the song's lyrics was more speculative, but I thought it might be possible since there was a CLEAR REFERENCE to Escaflowne at the beginning.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=q_D15gOoUrw&search=escaflowne%20opening <- Watch through to the zoom on Hitomi's face

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2aGkRkzVK-o&search=haruhi%20opening <- Now Haruhi. Note the zoom is done in the exact same way, and the scene is basically the scene from Escaflowne sped up.


With regards to the Oendan, I should have brought it up first (although in my defense there are simillarly speculative statements about series higher up on the page). It seemed to me not unlikely, given Haruhi's propensity to reference Nintendo DS games, that a reference would be made to Oendan.

-- Nate

I don't know, still, it seemed a bit generic. I'm not convinced it's unique to Escaflowne. -- Ned Scott 03:48, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
How many series do you know of where the camera starts out with a left back angle shot of the main character on a desert landscape watching a falling star, followed by a diagonal camera zoom and pan up to a profile of the main character's face, followed by a bright light illuminating them? If there are any others which are as similar as these two are, please share them. In addition, there's the less obvious similarity later in the video of the main character moving through a tunnel of stars that are falling upward. The way this is done is fairly different, but the fact that multiple similarities exist suggest that it's probably more than just coincidence. Look, I've done my part. I have proven my claim that the first scene of these two show's openings is extremely similar. Now, if you want me to believe that this is in fact a common anime opening, you need to uphold your end of the argument and show it. -- Nate

[edit] Asahina Mikuru's Adventure

How are we sure that it's ep. 11? There's still episode 6 open, possibly, unless it'll take two more episodes to close the Melancholy arc. Mekryd 03:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll have to check, but in a few episodes they make reference to having already done the movie. -- Ned Scott 04:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
We know for sure where all the episodes are except 5, 6, and 11. Since the culteral fest has already happened by 13 (chronologically) (and we already know 12 (chronologically) is the culteral fest from the preview), it's only logical to assume that the first episode aired is episode 11 chronologically. That leaves them enough time in episodes 5 and 6 to finish up a two parter to end the series. I already know what they'll be about since I know what happens in the novel, so I can say for sure that the first episode, Mikuru Asahina's Adventure, is # 11.--Juhachi 12:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I just don't see them needing two episodes to finish up the Melancholy arc. There's not much else to do, is there? Show the Organization and the rebuilding incident, what else? They seem to have skipped over the showing the Organization part, too, since they've already given the snow white clue.
Update: Ah, it makes slightly more sense now that I've seen Day of Sagittarius. >_>; Mekryd 16:07, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Maybe the show will have more than one season? one can hope! :) -- Ned Scott 16:12, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
It'd be really disappointing to not see some eventual continuation, considering the relatively high attention this anime's been given. They do have the material waiting for them. Mekryd 16:23, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is there is a reference source for the ending dance?

Someone claim that the ending dance has a reference from here. As least I can identify the dancing steps from these time: 30", 1' 23", 2' 03", 2' 40". Before I put it in trivia, I would like to ask about other opinions. Leeyc0 13:42, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Seems too vague and generic to really say that Haruhi sourced the dance from here. The similarities only last for a second or two, so it could just be coincidental. --Crisu 14:23, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
If there are four similarities found from the same dance (and all similarities are not trivial in my opinion), I would say it is more than coincidence. Leeyc0 15:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
After watching the whole video, I saw way too many similarites with the Haruhi ED video to say it's a mere coincidence. I would definately believe the whole Haruhi dance was taken from that video and only slightly (very slightly) altered.--Juhachi 15:59, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
I would be willing to bet that there is a relation, especially since both videos have one of the people holding out their index finger and twirling it toward the viewer at the same time they're saying "suki". In addition, there seem to be a lot of shared moves.
It's actually funny this was brought up here since I had already seen a reference made at another site. Here's the pic they posted: [1]--Juhachi 21:07, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Lets not forget that there are some dance moves that are simply used a lot, and if there isn't much connection other than slicing apart one version to make it fit to another, then I doubt there's a real connection. -- Ned Scott 02:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
That's why I raised this question here. In my opinion, these steps are not common enough to be used a lot. But I am not an expert in dancing, so I asked here. Leeyc0 02:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
In addition, though, there's the fact that about four moves, at least two seconds of footage from each, is an identical dance. If it were just taking individual moves and trying to put them together, it would seem less likely, but since many of the moves are there, in the same order as the moves in Haruhi, it seems like more than a coincidence. -- Nate
In any case, even if it's true, it's not verifiable. WP:V states "'The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." Until we get, say, DVD commentary or an interview where someone says that it was inspired by, or whatever, I don't think we should include it, as it's too disputable. -- Ned Scott 04:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
You are right. I totally argee with this point. Unless we can find something that can verify with this, it seems better to put it aside. It may also fall into the original research category. By the way, should we make a cleanup to the trivia, because there may be many unverifiable information? --Leeyc0 04:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
But consider this: If the song wasn't already verified at some time in the past, then how would someone have come across the music video? Isn't that an even bigger coincidence than having the dance steps be similar? And when you consider just how much of the Haruhi Suzumiya anime is taken from other things, it's easy to believe. But sure, we'll wait for verifiability.--Juhachi 05:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Of course, I still believe that the ending dance is taken from another music video, even without other sources. But Ned Scott is also correct in terms of verifiability. (But I would be more convinced that we have fell into the trap of original research, since there is no reputable source on the comparision of dances. :-) When we apply this critiera, many trivia items would need to be cleaned up (e.g. the incantations). --Leeyc0 05:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Haruhi has a lot of references in it, but they're also more explicit. I'm gonna have to see this is a coincedence, if Haruhi was doing a homage to the group, it would be a LOT closer in style (like the guitar scene reference in Live Alive)

Most likely, it's just a fluke. People will see what they want to see in things, how do you think people find "secrets" hidden in backwards music? --69.247.169.233 12:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia Status

I would say that it's fairly likely that the trivia section will (not unjustifiably) be nearly completely cut soon, due to the lack of good references and primary sources. Since that seems to be the path of things, I have a suggestion that may help the situation. It may be best for people who would like to continue searching for such trivia to move off of Wikipedia (possibly its own Wiki page), and create a new site somewhere to list likely references and trivia for Suzumiya Haruhi. Wikipedia could then link it in an external link, as a site with speculative information. As the site would no longer be subject to Wikipedia's guidelines, original research would be fine, as long as it was shown to be justified. This would also allow a group of people to be dedicated to finding these similarities, and hopefully be able to provide more accurate references, and better justification. Thus, the information would be available, and could remain slightly speculative (which is a good thing for people searching for references in a parody show), and the Wikipedia page could retain its standards. --Nate

SOS-dan Wiki may be a good site for these trivia. I will move those trivia to that site once I confirmed that site is suitable for the trivia to live with. --Leeyc0 14:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, yes, the SOS-dan Wiki welcomes new information. It's still a growing wiki, so pages need to get filled up first before we start shaving down excess info. And since it's a series-specific wiki anyway, there's more freedom for nitty gritty details and obscure references. ..Thanks for copying the images over, too! --SOS-dan Wiki SysOp Crisu 15:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


I say that since the trivia section is now at a different wiki, that the link should be moved back to the main article, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, which I'll do now.--Juhachi 20:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Needs clean up

I myself don't know what is the order very well, but the list starts by showing first aired episode and ends with las episode in the timeline, the 9th aired.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.128.220.17 (talk • contribs).

The reason it was changed is due to the order it will be released in English, and since we are the English Wikipedia, it would make sense to follow this ordering of events, despite the other order being the way in which it was aired.--十八 08:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Which order? The chronological order? Or is it a third order? Because right now, the list isn't sorted by either, so if it's being released with a different order than the two given, it's info that needs to be added. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 09:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
The order given presently is the order that appears with the English DVDs. More information can be found here.--十八 10:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
So chronological order with the same first episode as airing order. BTW, the page you linked says the special edition will have the airing order, so maybe that should be put in the article somewhere if it isn't. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 10:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Also, there are spelling mistakes that I'll fix later if they aren't. And I personally think the new summaries are too detailed. Some of the table text is formatted wrong and overlaps with lines for me. I don't think this article is quite ready for FA review. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 10:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
One of the things that was brought up in the FA review was to have longer summaries. I don't believe that they are too detailed at all.--十八 18:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I just read over them, and they're all fine to me except for "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya Part 4", which I think goes into too much detail about some things instead of being more broad like the rest of them. I'll change it if no one minds. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 19:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Hows: "Ryoko is concerned about a melancholy Haruhi following the SOS Brigade's weekend field day. Kyon receives an anonymous note in his shoe locker asking for a meeting after school in an empty classroom. Kyon finds Ryoko waiting for him, who is revealed to be a humanoid interface. Being tired of merely observing Haruhi, Ryoko tries to provoke Haruhi by killing Kyon, but fails due to Yuki's interruption. Kyon receives another note, and finds a future Mikuru waiting for him. The future Mikuru gives Kyon a clue for the future."? --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 20:02, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sortable episode format

I've been working on a format this morning that will be sortable. I still have some tweaking to do to make the table borders show up correctly, but here's a working copy at User:Ned Scott/sandbox7 (using template at User:Ned Scott/sandbox6). Thoughts? -- Ned Scott 19:16, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Since sortable requires the episode numbers (or whatever you want to sort by) to be the full length of the episode row, I have no problem with having the numbers to the left or right of the entry. -- Ned Scott 19:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, and the images should be able to display to the side of the title (at the topish) like they were before, making the only real change the length of the episode number cells. And the table headers should also be able to show a separate cell for original air date (it just won't be sortable). I ran out of time to make those examples, since I have to go to work. -- Ned Scott 19:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
And the images off to the side can still have the text wrap around (if my idea is correct)! Ok, I'm actually going now.. -- Ned Scott 19:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I'll have to be blunt here. I don't like how the episode columns look. They're very narrow with nothing in them. I was thinking last night that the order sorted with should be at the left, sort of like a standard list, and then the other two orders can stay on the right like before. How does that sound? --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 19:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't like how they display either, but as far as I can tell that's the only way to make it sortable. (crap, I'm gonna be late) -- Ned Scott 19:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Although, it doesn't bother me that much, and I find it a fair trade off to make the list sortable when needed. Like I said above, after more tweaking the format will look the same as the old, except for the episode numbers being the full length. -- Ned Scott 00:18, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I like this a lot (if I may say so as the one who proposed it ;-). Thanks Ned. Also, with the inline screenshots the extra column space doesn't make the table a lot wider than it has to. I propose that we make this a new template and use this new table in the article. (BTW, no fair use in user space, redirect the sandbox to the article.)--GunnarRene 14:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't really know if we need the backwards episode ordering, though. Still, with the episode numbers visible, it should not pose a problem. --GunnarRene 14:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding images

I went ahead and added a short reason on why I uploaded the picture for the last episode aired. See here. Is this what's needed, as asked for in the featured list nomination? If so, can I add them for the others? --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 06:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that description is a lot better. Also If possible, I think it would better to upload images with a smaller width x height. It will give the people who check Fair Use images less of a footprint to remove the images. --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 13:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
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