Talk:List of Swedish monarchs

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Eric XI of Sweden and Eric XII of Sweden is the same person. There was an interreign beteen his periods as king. Why should he have two different numbers becuase of this? Seems confusing...Dan Koehl 11:18 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

  • I believe that Eric XII actually is Eric Magnusson who was co-regent with his father - Magnus II. sv:Erik Magnusson When searching at google I see two differnet versions. One that says that Eric XI of Sweden and Eric XII are the same person and another version says that Eric XII is Erik Magnusson. Jeltz 16:56, 2004 Nov 19 (UTC)


The following comment was moved from the article. (The first long paragraph, relatively encyclopedic, was left in but refactored.) - Montréalais

On the spelling of Swedish names: Swedish has been a written language for more than a thousand years, but spelling has not been fixed or stable for more than 70 years. During the 1920s, several words were spelled with ä (a-umlaut, the same character used in German) that are now spelled with e. In 1907 an official spelling reform was made in Swedish schools, replacing "hv", "fv" and some occurrences of "-f" with "v" and "dt" with "tt". For example, the English word "which" is still spelled "hvilken" in Danish, but "vilken" in Swedish - the "h" is silent anyway. During the 19th century, older spellings with "w" and "qv" were replaced with "v" and "kv", respectively. Further back, more changes had taken place. This also effects personal names. For example, the Swedish name "Per" might be spelled "Pär". Most often, one person spells his own name in only one of these ways, but in historic times, the spelling variants could change from one year to another. Swedish king Gustav Vasa in the 16th century spelled his own name Göstaff and various historic documents use Gustaff or Gustaf or Gustave (if in France) or Gustaw. Some Swedish historians have used the convention of spelling kings' names with f and c during their lifetime (Gustaf, Carl, Oscar) and with v and k after their lifetime (Gustav, Karl, Oskar), which is certainly confusing and not in line with any English customs. Add to this confusion that Karl XII is known throughout Europe as Carolus (the Latin form of his name), that John is the English form and Johann is the German form of Johan, and that king Sigismund was also the king of Poland.

Adding a question to this confusing list regarding spellings: Why is Olof Skötkonung´s given name spelled in Norwegian way, Olaf? (A Swedish king, on an English encyclopedia, spelled in Norwegian? Although, instead of babbling about this, it seems wise, that those persons who are interested, tries to find common terms in the way of spelling, and start writing articles about the persons, rather than arguing what they should be called for centuries? My suggestion: unless there is English records, with a certain spelling, why not use the Swedish. (also added some Magnus I, Birger I, and such, although such numbers were never used in Sweden until Eric XIV of Sweden. While starting describing the persons, we might just in the end be able also to name them properly here?
The main purpose of this list (and Wikipedia naming conventions in general) is to avoid duplicate articles for any one person who is known by several names. So if there's no article already, and you know that someone is more well-known by a name that's different from the one on this list, you should just go ahead and change it here (and by all means go ahead and write an article on him if you can). I certainly think it is right to use a Swedish spelling (Olof) rather than a Norwegian (Olav) or Danish (Oluf) form in a list of Swedish monarchs. -- Someone else 03:15 Dec 3, 2002 (UTC)

This Wikipedia is in English, and any English practice should be used. For a Swedish text, I would use the same spelling versions as are used by the Swedish Nationalencyklopedin (http://ne.se/):


Swedish            English                 Latin
ne.se                   encarta.com
-----------------       -------------------     ---------
Adolf Fredrik
Erik XIV                Eric XIV
Fredrik I               Frederic I
Gustaf Wasa     - title of an opera play from the 18th century
Gustaf Vasa     - name of a parish in Stockholm, created in 1906
Gustav Vasa             Gustav Vasa             Gustavus Vasa
Gustav II Adolf Gustav II Adolph        Gustavus Adolphus
Gustav III              Gustav III
Gustav IV Adolf Gustav IV Adolph
Gustaf V                Gustav V
Gustaf VI Adolf Gustav VI Adolph
Johan III               John III
Karl Knutsson           Charles VIII
Karl IX         Charles IX
Karl X Gustav           Charles X Gustav
Karl XI         Charles XI
Karl XII                Charles XII             Carolus
Karl XIII               Charles XIII
Karl XIV Johan          Charles XIV John
Karl XV         Charles XV
Carl XVI Gustaf Carl XVI Gustaf
Kristian I              Christian I
Kristian Tyrann Christian II
Kristina                Christina
Magnus Ladulås          Magnus I
Magnus Eriksson Magnus II
Margareta               Margaret I
Oscar I         Oscar I
Oscar II                Oscar II
Sigismund               Zygmunt III
Ulrika Eleonora

Swedes, other than monarchs:

Carl von Linné                                     Carolus Linnaeus

Paying subscribers of ne.se can look up "Sverige: Regenter", http://www.ne.se/jsp/search/article.jsp?i_art_id=320855&i_sect_id=491027

Paying subscribers to encarta.com can look up "Royalty(nobility): Swedish", http://encarta.msn.com/find/lists.asp?id=202686

Contents

[edit] Suiones kings

I guess this is a list of ancient kings over Suiones? Rogper 20:46, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

Moved off the main page. The list should contain a numer of Karls and Erics to account for the numbering of later kings. It shows none. Some kind of source is required to show that this actually is, at least part, of valid list and not just a prank.

  • 318 Vanlandi Svegdasson
  • 329 Visbur Vanlandasson
  • 360 Domaldi Visbursson
  • 381 Domar Domaldasson
  • 402 Dyggvi Domarsson
  • 423 Dag Dyggvasson
  • 444 Agni Dagsson
  • 465 Alrek Agnasson
  • 486 Yngvi Alreksson
  • Alf Elfsi Agnasson
  • 507 Jorund Yngvasson
  • 529 Ani The Aged Jorundsson
  • 571 Ottar Vendel Crow Egilsson
  • 592 Adils Ottarsson
  • 614 Eystein Adilsson
  • 636 Ingvar Eysteinsson
  • 658 Braut-Anund Ingvarsson
  • 680 Ingjald Braut-Onundss Evilheart
  • ?
  • Erik
  • 830 Björn i Birka (from Vita Anskarii)
I added Erik and Björn i Birka (Björn from Birca). // Rogper 20:46, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

Moving the following text from the main page. It probably belongs somewhere, not sure where though:

On the spelling of Swedish names: Swedish has been a written language for more than a thousand years, but spelling has not been fixed or stable for more than 70 years.

During the 1920s, several words were spelled with ä (a-umlaut, the same character used in German) that are now spelled with e. In 1907 an official spelling reform was made in Swedish schools, replacing "hv", "fv" and some occurrences of "-f" with "v" and "dt" with "tt". For example, the English word "which" is still spelled "hvilken" in Danish, but "vilken" in Swedish - the "h" is silent anyway.

During the 19th century, older spellings with "w" and "qv" were replaced with "v" and "kv", respectively. Further back, more changes had taken place. This also effects personal names. For example, the Swedish name "Per" might be spelled "Pär". Most often, one person spells his own name in only one of these ways, but in historic times, the spelling variants could change from one year to another.

Swedish king Gustav Vasa in the 16th century spelled his own name Göstaff and various historic documents use Gustaff or Gustaf or Gustave (if in France) or Gustaw. Some Swedish historians have used the convention of spelling kings' names with v and c during their lifetime (Gustav, Carl, Oscar) and with f and k after their lifetime (Gustaf, Karl, Oskar), which is certainly confusing and not in line with any English customs.

Add to this confusion that Karl XII is known throughout Europe as Carolus (the Latin form of his name), that John is the English form and Johann is the German form of Johan, and that king Sigismund was also the king of Poland.

/ Mic 10:47 Apr 4, 2003 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be appropriate to merge this list into King of Sweden? --Jao 06:18, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Unresolved naming issues for the Swedish monarchs

Currently there are a number of unresolved issues regarding the naming of Swedish monarchs. This is a brief summation of the most immidiate issues.

[edit] Not wikilinked

  • Halsten (Halsten)
  • Haakon the Red (Håkan Röde)
  • Halsten and Ingold I (Halsten and Inge (I) den äldre)
  • Blot-Sweyn (Blot-Sven)
  • Ingold I (Inge (I) den äldre)
  • Philip Halsten (Filip Halsten)
  • Ingold II (Inge (II) den yngre)
  • Magnus the Strong (Magnus den Starke Nilsson)

[edit] Numbering when there should be no numbering

These monarchs did not use numbering and numbering is not generally used in Swedish.


With Erics, there is a problem if a numeral is not used. Thus, use it. Sverkers, same recommendation.

Canute: he could be King Canute the Great and the second: King Canute the Tall

These two Charlies: either numeral, or "Charles Sverkerson", "Charles Knutson".

John I of Sweden could even be "King John of Sweden", if the only rival be "John III of Sweden" (he USED the numeral).

wally: King Valdemar of Sweden (after all, the only one in known history)

mannes: King Magnus Ladislas, King Magnus Birgerson

[edit] Gustavus, Gustav or Gustaf

What spelling should be used. Should consistent spelling be used and if not why.

I have renamed the articles on Gustaf V and Gustaf VI Adolf to use the native Swedish spelling ("Gustaf") rather than any other form, per Wikipedia:Proper names#Personal names. Someone more acquainted with the earlier monarchs' given names in Swedish may care to move them as well. To quote from the aforementioned document, "As proper nouns these names are always first-letter capitalized, and transliterated into English spelling but generally not Anglicized or translated between languages." Since these are relatively recent names, this seems more clearcut to me than with the earlier monarchs, but I tend to feel that if the native Swedish form is known for certain, it should be used. — JonRoma 23:53, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Charles, Carl or Karl

Should the English form Charles be used, should the Swedish konvention Karl be used or should the form Carl, commonly preferred by the monarchs themselves, be used. Should consistent spelling be used and if not why.

Charles. This is english Wikipedia. 213.243.157.114 01:35, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Frederic, Friedrich or Fredrik

Should consistent spelling be used and if not why.

[edit] Adolphus, Adolph or Adolf

Should consistent spelling be used and if not why.

This is an English Wikipedia material. Thus, English name variants. Consistently. Gustav xx Adolph. Adolph Frederick.

Any other page to redirect to the chief page.

213.243.157.114 01:34, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

~

[edit] Not only a Swedish monarch (naming/number problem)

These also affects naming conventions for other thrones.

Many of the problems are solved by redirect pages, all imaginable versions of the name. As chief page for this monarch, I recommend "Queen Margaret". Simply. (Only one worry: that MIGHT be needed as an ambig.page.) After all, she was the most important of that name. 213.243.157.114 01:31, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Many of the problems are solved by redirect pages, all imaginable versions of the name. As chief page for this monarch, I recommend "Eric of Pomerania".213.243.157.114 01:31, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Many of the problems are solved by redirect pages, all imaginable versions of the name. As chief page for this monarch, I recommend "King Christoffer".213.243.157.114 01:31, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Many of the problems are solved by redirect pages, all imaginable versions of the name. As chief page for this monarch, I recommend "King Charles Knutsson".213.243.157.114 01:31, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Many of the problems are solved by redirect pages, all imaginable versions of the name. As chief page for this monarch, I recommend "Christian I of Denmark".213.243.157.114 01:31, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Many of the problems are solved by redirect pages, all imaginable versions of the name. As chief page for this monarch, I recommend "King Hans of Denmark".213.243.157.114 01:31, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Many of the problems are solved by redirect pages, all imaginable versions of the name. As chief page for this monarch, I recommend "Christian II of Denmark".213.243.157.114 01:31, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Many of the problems are solved by redirect pages, all imaginable versions of the name. As chief page for this monarch, I recommend "Sigismund Vasa". 213.243.157.114 01:31, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Double names

These monarchs have double names according to Swedish convention. Should it be applied consistently.

Additional naming conflicts exists and should be added. Any comments regarding the naming issues or whether a convention should be consistently applied, and in such an event which? -- Mic 11:45, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Queen Ulrika Eleonora should be "Ulrika Eleanor of Sweden".

Question: why is it Charles VIII? when wear the previous 7 kings of Sweden named that?

I explained this at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (names and titles)/Archive 3#Monarchical Title (Spain). -- Jao 10:33, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)

So am i to understand that which ever form of the name they may have used (Karl, Carl, Charles)....that there were no previous to that before Charles VIII?


Does the infobox used for the Swedish monarchs exist as a template anywhere? Fornadan (t) 13:22, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Folkung vs Bjälbo

The House of Folkung is actually the House of Bjällbo since the folkung is modern reconstruction of the name of the House. Filled in a few missing regents. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.47.254.240 (talk • contribs).

In either case, these "names" for medieval dynasties and other families are not contemporary but given by later scholars, and thus always somewhat arbitrary. But Folkungaätten, despite possibly being historically incorrect, is actually the name used by modern historians. Can you cite any major reference work calling the family anything else? up◦land 07:59, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Missing Karls

The article says:

There are lists of Swedish pagan monarchs with dates far older than these. These records contain the early kings, of the House of Yngling, and give an explanation to the numbering of the monarchs, particularly the names Erik and Karl (Eric and Charles)

This is correct for "Erik" but not for "Karl"; the lists of Semi-legendary kings of Sweden and Mythological kings of Sweden include no Karls. So why do the Karls start at VII? A note on Talk:Charles VII of Sweden suggests that Charles IX of Sweden deliberately inflated his regnal number. Is this right? This article should explain the anomaly. Gdr 19:30, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Both Eric XIV and Charles IX took numbers influenced by the pseudohistorical work of Johannes Magnus, but I don't remember the details. I should add that serious historians of medieval Sweden never use these numbers. I don't like their use here, but don't feel like trying to modify the naming standard right now. I hope somebody else will do something about this eventually... up◦land 19:54, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
(from Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities) The answer is that Charles VII (Sverkersson) was the first historical king named "Karl" according to tradition. The other 6 were inventions of Johannes Magnus (not Charles IX) according to Nordisk Familjebok (1955 edition). They aren't included in the mythological and semi-legendary kings since those either existed or had at least been invented early enough to not be disprovable. The fact that Johannes Magnus is responsible for the numbering scheme is mentioned on the Swedish version of the list. Consider merging that into the english version. --BluePlatypus 00:26, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
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