Talk:List of Spells in Slayers

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[edit] About chaos magic

Although I have seen the term chaos magic used on several fan pages, I never saw the term in any official material. I am inclined to believe that it comes from fanon. So, I moved Ragna Blade and Giga Slave to Unclassified spells, and added another example to that category.--Pip25 08:28, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, if, as is stated in The Slayers, the Lord of Chaos is a Dark Lord, wouldn't that necessitate the Giga Slave going under Black Magic?--Monocrat 05:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

No, it is a lot more compicated than that. The Lord of Nightmares was believed to be a Dark Lord by mazoku like Fibrizo (and possibly shinzoku like the Aqualord as well), but in reality, she is the creator of the whole Slayers universe. She made the mazoku AND the shinzoku, and she herself cannot be classified into such terms. That is why she destroyed Fibrizo. Lina (and thus the readers/viewers) realised this when she read the original Clair Bible. This happened in Slayers Next in the anime (the second season), in the first season, Lina indeed also thought that LON was a Dark Lord. --Pip25 09:43, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand this—having watched the three Slayers many times. :) My concern is that we have the two most powerful spells in all of Slayers under the non-descript heading of "Unclassified," with "Boost," (which should arguably go under Black Magic, if at all, since it appeals to the dark lords). I don't think classification schemes necessarily have to be canonical, they just have to be reasonable and consistent with canon, in which case "Chaos Magic" is just fine. If you were to remove "Boost," add the "spell" she uses at the end of TRY, and rename "Unclassified" "Greater spells" or some such, I would support that, too.--Monocrat 23:33, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't really understand your point. Why should a spell category name reflect the power of the spells within? The reason why I believe that "Unclassified" suits Ragna Blade and Giga Slave well is that it does not count as a category, but represents that these spells do not belong to any category, which is exactly the case.
I also strongly disagree with your statement that category names should not necessary be canonical; fan-made information should not be included in Wikipedia, or at least it clearly needs to be labeled as such. If there isn't a category for the Giga Slave in canon, then we should not make one up.
Boost is by no means a simple black magic spell: Although the fact that the chant refers to the dark lords is undeniable, the spell does not draw power from the lords directly, but rather simply activates the talismans.
I hesitate to include the light-dark fusion magic as a spell because I'm not sure it is really a spell at all: Although Lina indeed used the last part of the propechy as Chaos Words in the last episode of Try, we were shown earlier that the light-dark fusion can be achieved simply by mixing two spells together without any further chanting. Therefore I cannot tell what effects that chant had, and why was it even necessary. --Pip25 15:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

"Greater spells" would be entirely logical and aptly describe both the Giga Slave and the Ragna Blade (these are indeed greater spells, exceeding the Dragon Slave, the most powerful of black magic spells). Moreover, such a title would not be inconsistent with canon. Yes, Lina fashioned the fusion spell out of the Fire Dragon King's prophesy, but she also fashioned the Giga Slave itself out of the Dragon Slave, incorporating her own research about the LoN. Considering that the fusion spell rivals the Giga Slave in power (it destroyed/defeated Darkstar-Volphied-Valgaav), I think it should be included as a greater spell. Regarding Boost: If black magic comes from the Mazoku, and the Talismans draw from the Dark Lords, and Boost activates that power, how is this not black magic? If a spell commanding a summoned demon or a demon's power is black magic, then surely the spell summoning that demon or its power is black magic.--Monocrat 01:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, regarding Xellos' being able to use fusion magic without chanting: note that he is Mazoku, and therefore has no need to incant in order to use his powers. Humans seem to need to incant to cast spells (except when the incantations are too long for the episode!). I'm not sure what to make of the use of the ancient vases to cast fusion magic.--Monocrat 01:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree that Xelloss does not need chanting to add his own powers into the mix. But directing that mix is a different matter entirely... And as you said as well, the ancient vases complicate the matter even further.
That being said, I am not entirely against adding it to article, the only problem is that I couldn't even convince myself that what I would add would be valid information. If you think you can do this, then go ahead.
The problem with Boost is almost the opposite of what is wrong with the fusion magic. This chant simply activates a magic item, and while the chant does refer to the magic item's source of power, it does not call upon any mazoku, so it is not a black magic spell by definition. What's more, normally it should not be a spell at all, considering that no one says that Gourry is "chanting a spell" when he activates the Sword of Light. But, in the novels it is commonly refered to as an "amplification spell", so it cannot be disregarded. That is why I thought that putting it under "unclassified" is a good idea, but second best choice would be black magic, I suppose.
If you strongly dislike "Unclassified spells" (although I still don't truly understand why), then let us find another name, but I also strongly dislike "Greater spells", considering that would categorize using the spell's power, which is a can of worms. Greater than what? The Dragon Slave? Some say that Blast Bomb is somewhat more powerful, but it is a fire shamanistic spell, isn't it? How about Zellas Brid? It requires greater capacity to use than Dragon Slave, does that make it count as a Greater Spell as well? As you can see, categorizing with power alone isn't that straightforward.--Pip25 12:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

(Breaking indentation) My problem with "Unclassified spells" is that the term carries (to my ear at least) connotations of being irrelevant or insignificant. If we're excluding "Greater spells" and "Chaos magic" (and I still don't understand your opposition to the latter), then I'm stumped. Perhaps a disclaiming sentence after a putative "Greater spells" heading but before "Giga Slave": "These spells are among the most powerful and otherwise unclassified spells in the Slayers universe."--Monocrat 21:32, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

The term "Chaos magic" can delude the reader into thinking that it is a valid name for a type of magic (like shamanism), while it actually isn't. I support the disclaiming sentence-version of Greater spells, though, as it shows that the category is called as such because of the lack of a better name. --Pip25 21:07, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flow break

I added this spell to white magic since I didn't see it on the page anywhere. I'm pretty sure it's general use is to dispel magic in an area, but doesn't Amelia use it to try and try that female monster in the temple at the centre of Sailuun?

Flow Break dispells all non-white magic spells. Amelia probably tried to weaken Mazenda's quasi-black magic powers with it. --Pip25 16:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

That reminds me, Naga used the same spell to halt some animated suits of armour in one of the OAVs. Exactly what category would the spell used to animate their fall into? For that matter, Naga has a spell to create golems - I assume it would be in the same category. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Holywhippet (talk • contribs) 03:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

One of the golem-creating spells, Vu Vraimer is an earth shamanistic spell. That does not mean that all such spells belong to that category, though... --Pip25 10:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)