Talk:List of Spanish monarchs
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[edit] List of Monarchs
Besides this article we have List of Navarrese monarchs, List of Castilian monarchs, List of Aragonese monarchs, and List of Counts of Barcelona. As far as I can tell, we lack lists of Vandal, Visigothic, and Suebi monarchs in Iberia; I'm also unaware of where we might have a list of the Muslim monarchs in what is now Spain.
The Spanish-language wikipedia has a lot of this (still missing the Muslim monarchs, though) well-arranged in a table at es:Tabla_cronológica_de_reinos_de_España. Do people think it would be useful to so something like that in English? Or maybe just link to that Spanish-language article from here? I'm open to ideas. -- Jmabel 20:51, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)
The Visigoth article lists those rulers. Umayyad, Almoravides, and Almohad have lists of those rulers. john k 21:36, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Thanks. -- Jmabel 21:59, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)
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- Why do you mention a list of Suevi and Visigoth Kings? Why not the Vandal Siling kings? And by the way why not the Roman list of rulers of the Peninsula? It looks pretty silly to have to read who were the forerunners of the Spanish throne when the article is about the Spanish kings, it is so confusing for a student.
- How were these lineages eventually united by the marriage of Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.84.66.111 (talk • contribs) 6 March 2006.
[edit] Carlos vs. Charles?
Is there any standard on when to use Carlos or Charles for the different Spanish Kings. I noticed that Charles III of Spain, for example, doesn't mention the name Carlos at all (although there is a redirect from Carlos III of Spain), but is listed on this page as Carlos III (as well as referred to as Carlos III in an article on California history I was just reading). [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 05:19, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Wikipedia standards seem pretty clear that we should be using "Charles" consistently, but should have redirects from "Carlos" and should mention it in the lead of the relevant article. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:26, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)
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- If nothing else then, the lead article on him needs some revision since it doesn't even mention "Carlos".
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- Did the Spanish actually call him "Charles III de Bourbon, Rey de España" or "Carlos III de Borbón, Rey de España"? Even the fairly Anglo-centric website http://thePeerage.com (A genealogical survey of the peerage of Britain as well as the royal families of Europe website) calls him "Carlos III de Borbón, Rey de España". For a modern example, we certainly don't say "his majesty King John-Charles of Spain" [1] for the current Spanish king no matter how Anglo-centric we want to be. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 07:30, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
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- Agreed, Juan Carlos is a simple case, I've never seen any other form. I'm just reporting what I've seen as the preponderant approach in a little over a year on Wikipedia. I don't necessarily like the policy, but I'd rather try to follow it reasonably consistently than be ad hoc every time. -- 09:08, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)
Charles III is a special case, since he before ascending the Spanish throne, was king of Naples etc in Italy, where the name form is Carlo. All these cannot be included in the title of his article, thus in all cases it is easiest to call him Charles.
Juan Carlos comes from the specific Wiki policy, an exception, that a living monarch can be named in the native language in English article - today's news flow uses his native name. Since history books tend to use English name forms, Charles is the presumption for deceased monarchs. 62.78.125.16 09:34, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Carlos IV
Carlos IV was recently edited without explanation to Carlos Torralba IV. The word "Torralba" does not appear in our article on him. Does anyone know what is going on here? -- Jmabel | Talk 15:35, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Spain is not Iberia or Hispania!
This article had several instances of Spanish-centered POV! The Iberian peninsula or Hispania, covers not only the modern country of Spain, but Portugal also (and Andorra; and Gibraltar!). The word "Spain" in modern English (and its counterparts in other languages) means the country of Spain, not all of the Iberian peninsula (as the respective articles show). The fact is that Castillian expansionism over the centuries (ask not only the Portuguese, but also the Galicians, the Basques or the Catalans...) tried to monopolize the definition of Iberia in a way that satisfied its imperial interests. In fact, even if Spain was used in ancient times to refer to the whole of Iberia, today it is not. In this sense, given that the Kingdom of Spain only emerges with the union of Castille and Aragon in 1492 (and this is disputed since Navarre was only incoporated in 1512), one can almost say that there was never a Spain before that! It was Iberia that was conquered by the Romans, who called it Hispania. The country of Spain didn't exist then. It was Hispania that was conquered by Suevi, Vandals, Alans and Visigoths. The country of Spain didn't exist then. It was Visigothic Hispania that was conquered by the Moors. The country of Spain didn't exist then. The Moorish conquest was of Iberia or Hispania (that should not be confused with Spain, even if the term Hispanic is used to denote Spanish speaking peoples). This conquest and subsequent occupation led to a Christian reaction know as the Reconquista from which several Christian kingdoms emerged (such as Asturias, León, Castille, Portugal, Navarre, etc.). Over time Castille came to dominate most of Iberia (but not Portugal, except for a small period between 1580 and 1640) and the use of the castillian word "España" (which is the castillian version of latin Hispania) started as a political strategy to curb autonomy or independence from centralist Madrid (for the same reason Castillian language started to be known as Spanish, implying the irrelevance of other Iberian languages - this was still a problem in the Spain of the 20th century, with the active repression of languages other than Castillian). Furthermore, if you call Spain to the Iberian peninsula, this not only is simply not true, but is felt as profoundly offensive at least by the Portuguese. For all these reasons and more, this article should not emply that Spain is Iberia and that there was an exclusive direct descent from some of the monarchs of ancient times to those of modern Spain. The Ogre 19:05, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
- Really nice job on your edit on this. It's nice to see someone with this level of issue with the POV of an article simply come in and fix the issue without tearing our large quantities of useful information, or inserting POV in the opposite direction, etc. I corrected a couple of very minor English-language issues, but great work! -- Jmabel | Talk 06:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
- Perhaps it ought to be noted that Philip IV didn't give up his claim to the Portuguese throne until some decades after the revolt. I'd add that, prior to 1516, and perhaps prior to 1640/1662, "Spain" can be considered to mean "the Iberian Peninsula". It is only with the definitive independence of Portugal that "Spain" can be said to mean "the Iberian Peninsula, except Portugal." john k 06:40, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
- Hello John Kenney. I've added that the Habsburgs only recognized the separation of Portugal under the Braganzas in 1668. As to the fact that, before 1640, the name "Spain" meant all of Iberia, I think that is clear by the sentence "and thenceforth the name of Spain does not refer to the whole of the Iberian peninsula (ancient Hispania), but only to one of its constituent countries." Mind you that in most Iberian languages, namely Portuguese and Castillian, "Spain", when refering to the whole of the peninsula, was frequently worded in the plural - they spoke of the "Spains" (As Espanhas or Las Españas) - which has quite different connotations... The Ogre 16:13, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Suebi Kings of Gallaecia
KuatofKDY had deleted the link to the Suebi Kings of Gallaecia, arguing "Wrong kingdom listed. No list available yet for Gallician kings". This is a mistake. If one follows the link one can see the list. However the list is not of Galician Kings, but of the Suebi Kings of Gallaecia. Gallaecia, not Galicia. There where no Kings of Galicia, except for Garcia II of Galicia and Portugal during a period of very few years (see Kingdom of Galicia and Portugal), even if sometimes Galicia was refered to as a Kingdoom. The fact was that Galicia was generally ruled by a Count. For these reasons I have reverted to Jmabel version, that includes the afore mentioned link. The Ogre 15:51, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Ancestors' Infobox
I finished adding the infobox in all Spanish Monarchs' articles with two exceptions: Amadeo I's and Juan Carlos I's. I couldn't find the necessary genealogical information for their mothers, so I decided to do a bit more of research instead of adding a incomplete infobox.--Cosmos666 15:49, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Charles IV again
Charles IV is listed here as having had a 1-month restoration that goes unmentioned in our article Charles IV of Spain. If it is accurate, it should be mentioned in his biographical article; if not, it should be removed from here. Does anyone have a citable source? - Jmabel | Talk 00:31, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] El Reyna
From the article" "The Spanish monarchs traditionally sign Yo El Rey (I the King), or Yo El Reyna (I the Queen)." Surely not. I believe that the only person who would be El Reyna is Freddie Mercury. Given the one obvious mistake, is any of this correct? Does anyone have a citation? Or am I (not a native Spanish speaker) completely confused? - Jmabel | Talk 00:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
