Talk:List of Silent Hill monsters
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[edit] Monster Symbolism
Monster symbolism should not be stated as fact unless it has been confirmed by Konami, Gans, Akira, or the Book of Translated Memories. While I don't see the harm in mentioning theories, it should be made clear that they are just that: theories. The simplest, most logical theories should be mentioned as well.
"Silent Hill (Movie) -- Gray Children (Silent Hill 1) - Represent Alessa after the cult burnt her nearly to death."
It seems more logical to say that the Grey Children represent the children from Alessa's school who tormented her, branding her a witch; they are now condemned to the same fate Alessa was thanks to their actions.
"Silent Hill (Movie) -- Pyramid Head (Silent Hill 2) - Created out of Dhalia Gillespie's guilt of allowing the Cult to take and burn Alessa."
Again, this can also be debated...
--Luthien Rogue 10:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
A lot of these monster interpretations from the movies can be debated, since they all appear to be wildly speculative with no basis on the film itself and no references to back them up.
I'd sure like to see the reference that mentions Colin the magic bathroom fairy as having an STD that infects walls.
Kestrel 22:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I really believe that most 'symbolic representations' of monsters that were unmodified and included from other games are completely erroneous and do not make sense, as Pyramid head doesn't necessarily represent anything from the movie because he was included from SH2, as well as the 'Lying Figures'. He hunts down the Cult members and anyone else it sees. this is a rather stupid statement as well, it is also very incorrect, in the movie he seems to want to kill those who have a wrong view and don't know exactly what happened with alessa and why it happened. The entire definition of pyramid seems to be a total assumption, i really dont know how to modify it because half of the things said are simply random assumptions, such as the hand gesture made by Dhalia. The movie section really needs a cleanup, i did as best i could but so much of it is extremely inaccurate. --Neur0X .talk 22:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I added the statement at the end of the "Hand gestures" nonsense about it probably meaning nothing, but it would be just as good if the whole paragraph was deleted. Kestrel 23:19, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Anonymous
"Also to be considered as James Guilt reflection in Silent Hill is the fact these monster have their upper body wrapped in plastic." How does this make any sense? I'm going to dock it out until there's some kind of justification. (Shipton, not signed in) 69.192.15.31 17:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Why aren't there real names? 80.55.2.254 10:37, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Someone really needs to take the Valtiel passage and fix the grammar, spelling, punctuation, and content. It contains speculation and opinion regarding Pyramid Head, and possesses no flow overall. It's very difficult to read, and more difficult still to comprehend.
[edit] Giant Sewer Rats??
I don't recall any sewer rats in SH1, maybe you mean Hanged Scratchers? 84.10.103.180 08:33, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Origin of Monsters
I was thinking of adding a blurb at the top of each section to mention the reason why each being look the way it does. this includes how the monsters of the first game are possibly things that Alessa\Cheryl would find scary (some are from her favourite book, some are clearly other chilren), the second game has James' objectification of women and fear of illness embodied as monsters, and Heather's is a general fear of men (closer's 'phallus' connotations). The fourth game I have no idea. Anyone think these are justified, or should I leave em out? Thaddius 22:33, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
I think this is a pretty good idea. I remember finding Alessa's drawings in the first game and realzing how it all fit together. Coupled with the fact that SH is her mental playground adds depth to the story. Sabalon 18:51, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Bottoms and double heads
I think that 'double heads' (or those twins, whichever0 are pretty creepy. I was mildly fascinated in a horrid sense by the way they point! Who else noticed??? Bottoms are pretty creepy too, but...I only just picked up that their heads are actually butts. What do they symbolise? I dislike of toilets or what??
[edit] Wah..?
Wah..? What are you on about, man? That's totally stupid. I've never heard anything more ridiculous. They're obviously a fear of public cubicles and...well...gross stuff that people do in them. Don't you pick up on that kind of thing? Anyways, I was thinking about the ghosts. I've noticed that every single ghost in the game (the room) has a name, or at least a number. The granny one is particualrly creepy, but I find that there are like a couple which have no real relivance to the plot other than they are Walter's victims. Like there are a couple random ones like in the department store and in the weird building.
[edit] Images?
Why aren't there any images of the creatures on this page (like the Resident Evil mosnters page), I suggest you guys add pictures on the page rather than just including a link.
http://www.sh-lostmemories.net/sh2/creatures_lt.htm --FlareNUKE 21:39, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Official Creature Names
Who edited Pyramid Head again? The creature's official name is "Red Pyramid Thing", not Pyramid Head. The Pyramid Head page is fine being called "Pyramid Head", since it's a different page and the creature goes by different names in the different works it appears in, but as far as Silent Hill 2 goes, the creature's official name is RED PYRAMID THING. I call the creature "Pyramid Head" all the time, but that doesn't take away from the fact that that's not its official name. This page is dedicated to official creature names, not secondary or fan names (most popular among fans). The links still go to the "Pyramid Head" page, so stop messing around with this. It is the official name and that's final. Conquerer 22:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
- I would say that Pyramid Head is his real name. If you look in the game, James always refers to it as that. It has capital spelling and everything. It has been called many things by many people, including Red Pyramid Thing and simply Red Pyramid. I can see disagreeing about whether "Pyramid Head" is his real name, but Red Pyramid Thing is no more so his real name than that.
- SH2 states that its called Pyramid Head, play the game if you don't believe us. Since that's the only time he's mentioned in the games (since he only appears in SH2) that is pretty much his official name. Saying its not is like saying that James isn't his real name because it's only mentioned in the game. --Thaddius 13:34, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] I dont get silent hill..
I absoulutely love the games but i dont get it. are they all dead in purgutory? is it all a dream? Or is it hell rising up only in silent hill?
Give me the truith as to why this is all hapening at (e-mail addy removed by thaddius) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.189.32.105 (talk) 13:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC).
- I removed your e-mail address as it's not a good idea to leave it here. If you're genuinely interested in learning more about the games I suggest you look up 'Silent Hill' at GameFAQS.com and look into PresidentEvil's Plot guide. It's very informative. Please keep in mind though that this is not a discussion forum. --Thaddius 00:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Samael and Metarton (don't worry)
I've edited both Samael and Metatron to reflect a more NPOV. Before it speculated that Samael was actually Metatron in SH1. Now it says that that is a possibility, and that it is not confirmed from Konami. I know there are people who strictly believe that SH3 'confirmed' that Dahlia was 'lying' in SH1 even though no one says any such thing in the games, but this is speculation and I've made the sections look like they aren't picking sides, which is what NPOV is all about. If you disagree, please say so here first and let us know how you plan to change the sections. Try to maintain NPOV. --Thaddius 13:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Again with the Samael thing, I am really tired of it shown up on SH pages. Much of it unsubstainciated & fan speculation. from the SH1 Japanese official guide book translation (the ask the creators):
Q: What is the Mark of Samael?
A: The truth is that there is no profound significance.
Dahlia uses the phrase "the Mark of Samael" while speaking to Harry. This is a sophism to make Harry worry that terrible things are happening that must be stopped at any cost; it's nonsense that falls under the category of wordplay. Dahlia thought she could use Harry to catch Alessa, so she used incomprehensible terms with feigned sincerity.[1]
Another thing, Dahlia says "I never suspected the seal of Metatron in use." or something similar. That would mean that Dahlia had knowledge and knew the diffrence between Samael & Metaton.(She also didn't know Alessa was using it go figure, to the past article.) I would say that's fairly accurate too, because it's obvious Dahlia had extensive knowledge on the occult. Flauros for one thing is a army of 40 demons, in order to control them you need a triangle. Then we have the image of God that Dahlia had, which is based off Baphomet another occultic figure.
As for Samael being the cult's god... Just how can Samael be the cults God? She's female, a Solar deity (FYI Samael is associated with Mars.), and she's totally contridicting to the supposed devil himself. She has more in common with Amaterasu & Sol than "Satan". However, the confusion arises because the cult has been practicing black magic for sometime. (The reason I am saying this is because I do not want to see Samael = cult's god. It has no basis whatoever.) Xuchilbara 04:29, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think anyone has said Samael is the god. It makes no sense that Dahlia would attempt to 'trick' Harry by mentioning the name of an agent of Yaweh (Samael is an archangel, and therefore genderless by the way). If Harry had knowledge of Abramic religious beings he would not see Samael as an evil entity, therefore the trick makes little sense. Your link there seems to be an unofficial translation of an official text. No offence, but I never trust unofficial translations. I changed the article back to a neutral stance. Please leave it that way. No one wants to hear speculation on why Samael doesn't exist. The name was mentioned in the games, please leave it at that. This isn't a page for speculative fan theories. --Thaddius 12:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Samael has a gender, he is male. [2] And yes it is fan speculation, I'm sure Harry had knowledge as of Abramic religion, as Christianity is prevelent in American culture. (In Christianity Samael is satan.)Xuchilbara 18:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
- It was my understanding that angels were genderless and referred to as 'he' out of convenience\respect instead of saying 'it'. Although this still does not explain why you called Samael a 'she' earlier. Angels were created before Adam and Eve (and Lilith for that matter) before gender (angels do not reproduce, therefore not requiring genitals\gender). I'm aware of the story of Samael taking Lilith as a wife (this is mentioned in the Samael article), but this is not a widely accepted story (it is only mentioned in the Kabbalah), and again angels predate gender. That aside...
As for Samael being satan, samael has no attachment to Lucifer and is sometimes confused with satan: "Samael is often taken to be the true or angelic name of the Devil... but this is a mistranslation..." (from Samael). In Jewish, and therefore Christian, tradition, Samael is specifically mentioned as the tenth plague of Egypt, the angel of death: "In Jewish lore, he is said to be the Angel of Death" (from Samael).
I may be wrong, but these points are moot anyway. I'm glad we agree that anything but whats on the page is speculation. --Thaddius 19:10, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
The 'she' was obviously a typo.(If I referred to Samael as 'she'.) Angels are assigned genders, because this doesn't explain Azael among others whose origins are in the book of Enoch.(Most angles are inheritly male.) But Samael is indentified as Satan in Christianity, or at least equated with. Lucifer isn't Satan or Samael either,(it's a result of a mistranslation in the bible, reffering to a Babylonian king, and is a poetic name for 'morningstar' a.k.a the planet Venus.) and I didn't mention Lucifer whatsoever, it has nothing to due with SH. But SH does pertain to Kabblah, Jewish theology, and the orgins of Christianity, among the occult aspect.
Xuchilbara 20:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
- You said 'she' multiple times.
"As for Samael being the cult's god... Just how can Samael be the cults God? She's female, a Solar deity (FYI Samael is associated with Mars.), and she's totally contridicting to the supposed devil himself. She has more in common with Amaterasu & Sol than "Satan"."
Some typo. --Thaddius 03:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- sigh* It's not a typo, you completely misunderstood that entire thing(Because I wasn't "specific" enough): "As for Samael being the cult's god... Just how can Samael be the cults God? She's(<--- 'she' being God.) female. ---> About God:a Solar deity (FYI Samael is associated with Mars. <--- condriticting God, about Samael), and she's totally contridicting to the supposed devil himself. <-- Comparing the "devil" (Samael) & God diffrences. She has more in common with Amaterasu & Sol than "Satan"." <--- "Satan" being Samael in question, Sol & Amaterasu are female solar deities in reference to God.
Get it?
Why would I compare Samael to female solar deities in the first place?
Xuchilbara 04:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- Ah, so it wasn't a gender misnomer, it was a grammatical error. I suspected as much. It's a good idea to put the subject in a sentence, that way you avoid confusion. The way you typed, the word Samael was the only subject in the sentence.
It seems Samael isn't only a controversial subject in SH, it's also controversial in theology. After looking into it (in books, not just the internet) it seems there's just as many references to Samael as satan as there are to the angel of death. The satan ones though are found more often when describing satanists, while the angel of death is more often associated with Kabbalic and Jewish scripture. Again all this is moot, the article reflects a neutral stance. I suggest you read the Samael article. It seems to focus more on the angel of death side of things. --Thaddius 15:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I've edited the wiki Samael article and I read demonology alot. But yeah this is all just moot. We really can't say what Samael's role (if any) is in SH.Xuchilbara 17:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
