Talk:List of NASCAR drivers

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Page moved according to Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Lists. --Jiang 08:20, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The following mail was sent to the daily-article feedback address:

From: "Helena S. Holcomb"
To: <dal-feedback@wikimedia.org>
Subject: NASCAR CELEBRITIES
I was looking at your encyclopedia and under the famous NASCAR drivers, one of the drivers
you didn't have was Kevin Harvick who was the 2001 Winston Cup Rookie of the Year, and
2001 Busch Grand National Championship and 2000 Busch Grand National Champion. 2002 IROC
Champion. 2003 Brickyard 400 champion, finished 5th in points in 2003. He is also the
only driver to finish in the top ten in NASCARs top two divisions Winston Cup and Busch
Grand National Series in the same year in 2001.

Since I don't know anything about NASCAR, someone else may want to handle it :) — Kate Turner | Talk 02:19, 2004 Dec 1 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Notability?

Unless someone can stake their claim, I am hereby removing Larry Foyt from the lists at List of NASCAR drivers and from Wikipedia:WikiProject_NASCAR/To-do#Article_requests His only claims to fame seems to be that he led total of 7 laps, over 4 years in Busch/Winston/Nextel series, no top 10 finishes, hasn't raced since April 4, 2004. [1] -slowpokeiv 1 July 2005 17:54 (UTC)

[edit] Some changes

You may have noticed that I moved a couple of drivers out of the "Retired." That's because I am unaware of any proof that they are. If you can prove otherwise, please do.

--D-Day 15:33, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Larry foyt back on list

Larry Foyt is back on the list. He has done well in the underfunded equiptment he is in. And famous is an opinion, not what one person believes. A NASCAR driver is a NASCAR driver, it dosn't matter how well they have done.

I think one reason to consider keeping him on the list is that he is A.J. Foyt's son. And to respond to the person who started this topic, I agree a NASCAR driver is a NASCAR driver, but there is a fine line between how notable they are. While a single top-ten finish can automatically make them a notable driver, that's pretty much the last thing that gets them on the list. First is impossible to keep track of every single racer that has started a NASCAR race. And second, some of those drivers could have been long-time local drivers who drove in one NASCAR race, then dropped out after a few laps, then was never heard from again.--D-Day 13:20, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
Just because someone is the son of someone notable does not nessicarily make someone notable, however, in the case of Larry Foyt, I will not argue if consensus deems him notable. I will however, request that if Larry Foyt is notable, that there be an article created for him, and not merely a link to where the article will be.
Re: Famous, well, the definition of famous is somewhat subjective, mostly based upon public opinion, and as this encyclopedia is supposed to be NPOV, I am removing the distinction from the page. Notability however, is not completly subjective, one can have standards as to whether an encyclopedia article should be written about them. For one example: some public high schools have articles about them, but rarely to the teachers in said schools merit their own page. (might not be the best example, but merely the first I can remember.) As I am too lazy to determine if "lesser known" still means notable, I am removing said "lesser known" drivers, with the provision that obviously, anyone can add them back at any time. I do however, request that if anyone sees fit to add them, that they would also see fit to create a stub for that person at the same time. -slowpokeiv 17:57, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
It is unfair to put a driver of quality such as Andretti, Atwood, and Burton with the likes of Joey Clanotn. That is why we need a lesser known driver part of the list. What if people like Guss Wasson and Jimmy Kitchens get actual pages? They should not be on the same list as drivers that have won races in Cup, Busch, and the trucks, or drivers that have competed in many races, 10 September 2005.-Casey14
I disagree. This list is not to determine which driver was better than another driver, merely, if a driver was good enough to be notable, that is, if they are important enough to get a page on the WikiPedia, then they should be on this list. If they are not notable, they should neither have a page, nor be on this list, but if they have one, they should have both. (By the way, please sign your comments, even if you don't have an account on the WikiPedia. -slowpokeiv 00:32, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
Okay, what If I create one list for drivers that have ran more than 50 races in any of the top 3 series, and another for those that havn't? It would be based on starts, not how notable. -Casey14 26 October 2005

[edit] Buschwakers

I don't think we need this section, primarily because all the drivers are already listed under Cup drivers. -Casey14

[edit] Retirees

Look, I don't want to throw poo. But User: Casey14, your "my way or the highway" attitude is not at all becoming in lieu of Wikipedia policies on civility, consensus building, and so forth. Be glad to have my insights for the Wiki NASCAR project. I'll spot you Sadler if you wish, considering even if he made every race, he'd still finish last. But Nadeau has not formally announced his retirement and his Wikipedia entry confirms this, as does his website, as does MB2, as does jayski and other reputable news sources. If you can find documentation that says he says he is definitely done, great. But he has not called it quits just yet. Remember Neil Bonnett? Everyone, including him, said he's never race again after his first crash. But he came back. He ended up splattered all over the track in Daytona in 1993, but he never retired and eventually did come back. Rudd explicitly said "this is not retirement." He said he was "taking a break" and it was reported by nascar.com that he had been offered a ride with one of the 2007 Toyota teams. The fact that there was a report is a fact. When he confirms or denies it, that too will be fact. We are playing semantics games here but I feel that my edits are in good faith and most correct and I stand by them. I'm not some passive newbie NASCAR fan. I have closely followed the sport for decades and don't depend on second and third person sources for my info. WillC 15:55, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Um, read under the talk on my page, please. Casey14 17:05, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-Retired drivers

What qualifies a driver for "Semi-Retired" status? --D-Day What up? Am I cool, or what? 22:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

My definition is a driver that is only running part time, before planning to retire. I guess this could include people like Terry Labonte, Bill Elliott, Morgan Shepherd, and others. Casey14 23:24, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hand Compiled list becoming too difficult to maintain

With all the new drivers getting pages, the page is getting quite difficult to maintain. Many of these drivers are very miniscule in importance, maybe having one or two career starts in any of these series. This page will basically become the NASCAR drivers page in time. The page started out about famous drivers. I think we should re-tread on that. It is hard to classify "famous", but I think that it would be possible to make a page with drivers, with let's say, over 50 starts. We could keep all three series on the same page, or put each series on a different page. And for the current drivers, we could just use List of NASCAR teams page or make a page, like "Current Drivers in Nextel Cup", or something similar like that. I'm open to many ideas. We could even just make a page for Retired NASCAR drives with over 50 starts. The page will become too bulky and hard to navigate if we put every single NASCAR driver ever on the page.

Here are my suggestions for pages:

1)List of Current Drivers in Nextel Cup (which would include a list of free agents for Cup)

2)List of Current Drivers in the Busch Series (which would include a list of free agents in Busch)

3)List of Current Drivers in the Craftsman Truck Series (which would include a list of free agents in CTS).

Those first 3 of my suggested pages, could be put together, for List of Current Drivers in NASCAR.

4)List of Retired NASCAR Drivers (which would include all NASCAR drivers in any 3 series with over 50 starts total). We could separate the page for different series or keep it together. We could include the drivers with "unkown" status on the page as well.

5)List of Deceased NASCAR Drivers (can include drivers with over 50 starts that are deceased, and then a list for drivers that died on track (for notability).

50 races may seem too picky, but I bet we could include drivers that finished in the top 10 in points, a certain season, were rookie of the year, or won a race or pole.

Tell me what you think. Casey14 17:40, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I suggest making wiki categories based on each category on your list, but still striving to document EVERY NASCAR DRIVER EVER. Note: You don't have to be the only one doing the research. What sources are you using? WillC 18:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I have no problem documenting every driver, and I plan to help a lot. The only thing is that keeping this page up will become much harder, difficult, and time consuming with all these other drivers receiving pages. Oh, and for sources, I've been using Racingreference, mostly, and sometimes using other small sites, or my own knowledge (mostly of recent seasons). Casey14 18:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Foyt retired?

Where does it say that Larry Foyt has retired? I have looked online, but havn't found any proof. Casey14 00:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Jayski. WillC 02:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Here's the link. You'll need to scroll down though: [2] --D-Day I'm all ears How can I improve? 11:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Thank You, I'm surprised I didn't see that. Casey14 19:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
It seems like Foyt hasn't actually retired, but is taking a break, so I won't label him as "retired".Casey14 22:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plan of Action

This page needs a plan of action. I posted earlier that it is getting too hard to maintain, but yet I got little feedback. I created a category for Former drivers, but it looks like that will get deleted. Some feedback would be nice. Should we separate current drivers from former drivers? What do you think? Casey14 17:21, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd like find a way to make this a little easier on the eyes, perhaps using something such as tables like on List of NASCAR teams. (Only maybe using stats instead of team #'s?) I recently split that list into current teams and created another article for former teams, but only because of article size concerns. This list doesn't have it.
Oh yeah, I voted "Keep" on that CFD. --D-Day I'm all ears How can I improve? 18:30, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category of Former NASCAR drivers

With this category, does anyone find it necessary for us to keep the former drivers on the list, since there is a countless amount of former drivers in NASCAR history? Casey14 00:08, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

yes, all must stay. WillC 02:20, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Update, Plan of Action

Yes, I know I already asked this, but I have put the Former Driver Template on all the drivers (on this page), that qualify for that statistic. I've been thinking of what to do with this page. One idea that has came to my mind is to separate former and current NASCAR drivers, and leave this page with a link to both pages. I'm also open to many other views, since this page has gotten way too disorganized. Casey14 22:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Total Refurbishment of this Page

This page has grown wild, with tons of weeds. I would like to update the page fully, to make the page nice, and reliable. However, I am not willing to update the page with all former/retired/deceased drivers, unless a new rule is made. I would like Wikiproject NASCAR make it necessary that whenever a NASCAR driver page is made, they will be added to the page, in their proper spot. It takes hours to find all the pages that are made of NASCAR drivers. If not, I hope some type of conclusion can be made. Casey14 22:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I updated the best I could yesterday. (I may have missed one or two). The problem is that users, especially anons, who edit the page probably don't know it's part of WikiProject NASCAR. Unless you're able to get all the NASCAR drivers from Racing Reference on here in their proper spots, it's a really tough task. What I do with the list of NASCAR teams is update every week, or whenever something new happens, to keep it up to date.

[edit] Table Critique Please

Please critique my two different tables. The first consists of Current cup drivers, the second right below it (with Chuck Bown), will become the template for former drivers. I would like some quick comments, so that I can progress with this page. Casey14 00:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable non series exhibition/Winston West drivers

Where I can place drivers who competed in non-championship exhibition events as I can name two who has for the Japanese exhibition event who are both notable for drifting and Super GT, Keiichi Tsuchiya and another who once competed in the Winston West series, Manabu Orido[3]. Willirennen 01:58, 15 December 2006 (utc)

[edit] Retirements

I noticed that quite a few entries on the "retired" section on this page were drivers who aren't confirmed as retired. Some still race but not in a major NASCAR series, or others, we don't know if they're still alive! I recommend we keep closer tabs on those who we add to this list. --D-Day I'm all ears 20:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea. May I question towards which drivers you are weary about? Casey14 22:00, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Joe Buford and Mike Borkowski race in another series, and I believe Mike Cope and Conrad Burr do as well. I don't know if Bud Boone's still alive. I'll find more as I go on. Point being, if you're not sure about a driver, either Google them, or add them to the unknown status list. --D-Day I'm all ears 22:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Those drivers may have been on the list before the "other series" was made. However when relating them to NASCAR, they are retired, at least for the time being. They havn't raced in the series for years, and probably never will again. Remember, this is a NASCAR page, not a page for drivers who race in NASCAR and many many other series. Besides the fact, I always look up info about drivers I add to the list. Casey14 23:13, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
I understand where you're coming from. It's just the "Retired Drivers" makes me believe that it's a list of drivers who are done racing altogether. Perhaps these sections can be put together under something like "Drivers who no longer race in NASCAR", with appropriate subheadings for drivers who are officialy retired? --D-Day I'm all ears 14:34, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
That sounds like a really good idea. For all we know, only a few dozen of drivers are actually ofically "retired", so the heading your proposed is probably best. Casey14 04:05, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Former/unemployed drivers doing commentary

I think it is best to remove this section. This really dosn't have anything to do with the drivers driving, and could easily be noted in a template if really wanted. These drivers are already stated under retired. Casey14 01:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jim Robinson

I noticed a name missing from your NASCAR list, Jim Robinson. He had 21 starts, including 2 top 10s (according to racing-reference.com), before being seriously injured in an accident, it was during practice at Phoenix if my memory is correct. He died as a result of his injuries several years later, never coming out of his coma. In addition to those Winston Cup starts, he was a successful driver at Saugus Speedway and owned Jim Robinson's Garage in North Hollywood, CA (personal memory). --FourZ 10:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Drivers without pages are usually not added to the list. Many drivers who have won races are not on the list. However, if you wish, you may add Robinson yourself, and if you need help, just ask. Casey14 20:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Best Points Finish/ Sponsor

The column under full time NASCAR Cup drivers had been based off points position. I just noticed that it had been changed to sponsor. I will change it back if no one protests. Casey14 22:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

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