Talk:List of Metal Gear Solid 3 characters

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Give the prose a copyedit Get rid of the infoboxes Get rid of images on minor characters, make those that remain smaller Source the article with proper references, not like the ones I just removed [1]

The Referance of the Major Tom codename is to Space Oddity by David Bowie not to The Great Escape. November 7, 06.

Contents 1 Korolev/Granin connection? 2 The Boss... Rosemary? 3 Metal Gear Solid 3 characters? 4 DCI 5 Pictures? 6 About Names 7 Error in Raikov section 8 Poor translation for The Boss 9 the Fear's weapons 10 Grandfather and father. 11 The Boss 12 The end 13 Sigint/DARPA? I Think Not... 14 The Fury 15 Metal Gear PO Jobs

[edit] Korolev/Granin connection?

Why was this removed? It was an honest comparison, as Granin is one of many characters through out the series that are based off of another person (be they fictional or real).- Shinra

WP:OR

†he Bread ³⁰⁰⁰ 00:53, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, thanks.-Shinra

[edit] The Boss... Rosemary?

In the credits for MGS3, it lists The Boss as

THE BOSS/ROSEMARY - LORI ALAN --24.60.75.3 19:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Not as far as I know I'll check it out

†he Bread 06:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Just to clear this up, that credit is from MGS 3 Subsistence. In the "Metal Gear Raiden" parody, Rosemary (Raiden's girlfriend or whatever) is voiced by Lori Alan instead of Lara Cody, the original VA. Zidane4028 07:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Ahh that's it

†he Bread 03:44, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

In any case (and not to revive a discussion) you should note that in MGS2 Raiden's (Jack) girlfriend is called Rose/Rosemary like in the Titanic film (Kojima himself verified it) .I mean that even if it's sure that in the credits when it says THE BOSS/ROSEMARY - LORI ALAN it referes to the Snake Eraser parody there are chances that Rosemary could also be The Boss' real name,taking in mind Kojima's usual games with names and the relatonship between Snake (so called Jack) and The Boss.

Black Dollar 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Metal Gear Solid 3 characters?

Can you classify someone as being an MGS3 character if they appear in MPO, eventhough their appearence is not canonical. Metal gear ninty 19:11, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DCI

I've removed various minor characters that don't really belong but I've kept DCI as he does contribute to the plot and is supposedly comming back for MPO

†he Bread 07:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures?

Where the hell did all the character pictures go?--Snake Liquid 02:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone took them down, no guesses who, I think we should go with the drawings if we can't use the renders

†he Bread 03:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

So go for it and put them up then.--Snake Liquid 05:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't find any, I'll ask J2x4 he has a knack for finding images

†he Bread 05:59, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Steel359 (talk • contribs) removed them, since most of the characters (save for the one-off Cobra Unit members) don't have particularly distinctive appearances, and don't particularly need layout-breaking, fair-use decorative images. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 15:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

None of those images had source information. Unlike the various fair use concerns, this is pretty black and white. I wouldn't object to a couple of images illustrating the main characters, but images for every character made the page look extremely ugly and was fair use unfriendly. -- Steel 22:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

You've both defeated the purpose of this being an encyclopedia, which is supposed to provide as much information as possible, including at least one picture if available. With that logic, articles will keep getting smaller and smaller with less detail included, or you might as well remove every picture from every article. --Snake Liquid 23:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

If you're going to twist my words like that there's no point having this discussion. -- Steel 23:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like you've twisted your own words. I guess my point got across. You may not care to realize, but with this type of article-editing where you remove a considerable amount of detail (information or pictures) from articles, is pissing off a lot of people I talk to from the Metal Gear community that go to wikipedia as an information source. The reason they don't come and try to fix it is because they figure people like you are just going to keep eroding the articles anyway. Oh, and Steel? I was awarded a purple star for being persistent (or, you might say stubborn) in arguing my valid points despite whatever opposition there was. You should consider what I said rather than just brush it off in dismissal. There's definately a way to move the page around so that the pictures are included without making the article look like a mess, I suggest you look into that.--Snake Liquid 23:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Good to see you back SL. The drawings pass FUC, the renders don't I've removed the renders to try and achieve a compromise, and to keep in format with the other characters articles plus the standalones, can we put this to bed now †he Bread 02:38, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Right now, these images still don't have sufficient sources, and they look suspiciously like website rips (not fair-use) or artbook scans (also not fair-use). It may or may not be reasonable for some of the characters to have images, but these images aren't kosher in any case. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Give me a minute i'll check it out

†he Bread 03:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I've left a message with Jonny, I need him to verify the source for me. Even so, they pass being an "internet ripoff" as we know the original source, the manual for MGS3, and it's verifiable as I have the manual and they're in there, still wait for Jonny.

†he Bread 03:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

If they're from a press kit, then let's use versions that don't have notices saying that they're taken from a defunct website. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:21, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

These images were taken from an official Konami press kit and has been posted on at least four different websites (IGN, MGS.RU, MGS.ORG and Kawaii Art Zone). The only ones that were taken from a site were Para-Medic, Zero and Sigint (WHICH WERE NOT ON THE KIT). If you had actually paid close attention, you would've known those were the only ones watermarked. Jonny2x4 03:24, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't suppose you have a link to the images in context anywhere? Preferably a context that makes it clear that it's from a press kit? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:27, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Sigh. I already posted the links to sites. I don't see why it would hard to look for them from there, but here we go again.
MGS.ORG Gallery
Kawaii Art Zone
MGS.RU
[2]
Jonny2x4 05:43, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

So are we okay with posting the images or what? I've already provided proof they're from a press kit. Lock this page for protection just for a few images is going too far, don't you think? If anything, I'll just removed the versions from Namioka and use the other ones. Jonny2x4 21:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

This is getting pretty silly. We have resolved the dispute, but AMIB is...being wierd. Could someone please unprotect the page so we can get on with it

†he Bread 22:12, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Having images of every character makes the page look ugly and is fair use unfriendly. IMO we should have images of the major characters (The Boss, EVA and Volgin) and forget about the rest. Proper images, mind, not those sketches. -- Steel 22:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't make the page look ugly, they way they were was fine. Also the renders fail FUC #3. The sketches were all the same size and it looked great, Zero P-M and Sigint will re-appear and require images. Cobra Unit can go without, same with Raikove, maybe Sokolov, maybe not. How's that? Can we please have the page unprotected now?

†he Bread 22:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The amount of whitespace that the images created made the page look ugly. Major Zero, Paramedic and Sigint don't require images (simply because they're radio contacts whose looks are unimportant). And those scetches are probably the worst possible images to use. Images are supposed to identify the subject. You can barely tell who is who in the scetches. -- Steel 22:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Are you serious? They look as they do in the game. Most of the sourced material in the article relates to the character design, so the sketches do a better job. The sketches cause far less whitespace that than the massive renders. You can't me tell that this doesn't look exactly like EVA?

Image:EVA (Metal Gear).jpg
†he Bread 22:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the scetches are inferior (in terms of identifying the subject) to those other images. And it's still a lot of whitespace. -- Steel 23:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Let's try a compromise, EVA The Boss and Volgin get images (sketches) this way neither of us are happy. Happy?

†he Bread 23:12, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I think include the Sokolov ones as well. Include an illustration for the four of the six main characters discussed here. The Cobras and FOX ones we could do without. Jonny2x4 00:18, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Why are we futzing around with questionably sourced images of questioned utility when we can just use screenshots? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:43, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Well given the choice between the usable sketches or the screenshots we don't have, I go with the sketches †he Bread 04:18, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

No fair-use images is preferable to bad fair-use images. Go screenshot hunting if you want images. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

We don't need to we have images that pass WP:FUC

†he Bread 04:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

They are poorly sourced, and of questionable utility. Let's stop pushing the borders of the fair-use rules to keep images we don't even need. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

This is so stupid, Jonny gave us 3 sources, and they pass, whether it's by an inch or a mile they pass. Can we please get this page unprotected? †he Bread 04:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Those aren't sources. Those are places where he found this image. There's only one source of original publication, and there's no evidence I can find that these were in any of the general-issue MGS3 press kits from the release. (They're not on any of my Konami CDs, for one.) - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 07:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The characters page for Meryl, Liquid Snake, Gray Fox, Campbell, Otacon, et al, all have their images. This page should follow suit. You can eliminate whitespace by formatting the page the same way the Solid Snake page is with the MGS4 and MGA2 images. Adding the pictures improves the article, it's logic. Those images are found in the Art of MGS3 book, which I've seen myself. They're also partially used in the background of the character images on the main Konami site for MGS3. So cut it with the bureaucratic nonsense and get the images back up already. Common sense here people, I don't think adding pictures to an article to improve it is so bad when you've got the webmaster of the site telling us to "nuke" the people that commit real violations instead of distubring someone's iron grip policing of certain articles--Snake Liquid 07:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Personally, all of this bureaucratic crap with AMiB is part of the reason why I don't even bother editing Metal Gear articles anymore. I can forgive the removal of images and deleting the glossary (even though the Japanese Wikipedia had one before mine), but locking this page is just fucking ridiculous. BTW, whoever was the last person to edit the article forgot to put the correct voice actors Raikov. Jonny2x4 01:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

We have to stick it out guys, WP:RFARB anyone?

†he Bread 03:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

LOL! -- Steel 10:31, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Definetly you should add the pictures again, better the "Shinkawa's original" than the "3D" like in the other MGS characters page. It fits more with the ENCYCLOPEDIA real meaning. Also the info avaliable on the characters (even in the main characters like The Boss is) has decreased to minimums. I am also partidary of doing a little chart again under the picture with all the main data (like real name,age,nationality etc...) and treat every character with equallity.I expect that you really reconsider adding the pictures and amplifyng a little the info.

Black Dollar 9 November 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, I look at the MGS2 charachters page and think "great" but then I look at MGS3's charachter page and I think "ugh". Why does that have to be so little information there anyway? - Metal gear ninty 21:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't you LOL at me Steel, If we can't resolve this dispute, we'll end up there

†he Bread 02:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't mean for this to be a bunch of bureaucratic crap. Let's make this as simple as possible. A fair use image needs all of these:

1. A source of original publication.
2. The secondary source, if that's where you got it, with some clear indication of what the original source is.
3. A proper fair-use license tag.
4. A fair-use rationale.
5. As low-resolution as possible, preferably the same resolution as in the article.

When you're using a fair-use image, there's really only one rule of thumb:

1. Don't use many fair-use images when you can use one. Don't use one when you can use none.

I'm sorry that I have to be a stickler about the rules on what a fair-use image needs. All admins really should be, but it's not the kind of work that makes you many friends. (Just ask Carnildo or ed g2s.)

As for when to use images, we need to use as few as possible. I was thinking an image of Naked Snake, an image of the Boss, an image of Volgin, and an image of the Cobra Unit as a whole might a good arrangement for this article. Did I miss anyone particularly distinctive and important? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Big Boss has his own article, swap him for EVA (who is quiet prominent and recurring in MPO) and you've got a deal, sketches of course †he Bread 05:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm indifferent to sketches versus screenshots versus whatever, but it has to be well-sourced. "It must be from a press kit, it's on all these sites!" isn't sufficient. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 06:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Places they've appeared

• MGS3 Manual
• Art of MGS3
• Backround of the character renders at MGS3 website

Aren't these three sources and where is this from? †he Bread 08:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Rip-offs of manuals, artbooks, or the MGS3 website aren't going to be kosher, since there's no way to write a fair-use rationale for that. As for that image, I know for a fact that it's from a press kit because I have a press kit CD with that image on it. I probably should upload a copy from the press kit CD so I can attest myself that I got it from a press kit. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:31, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, give me some time, i'll find a source that they are from a press kit, which is pretty obvious just unsourced

†he Bread 05:07, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the Cobra Unit should have good renderings as well as 3-D images, people whom are on the outside of the gaming world or who want to buy it would like to not only read a description of each of the respective Cobras but also see a picture or two. people cant grasp what The Fear (my favorite cobra as an example) looks like just by reading about him.

James Castle 02:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Please,put the images again and add information.This article is extremely poor. Almost every videogame character article has images, why is this an exception being so great and world wide recognised?

Black Dollar 19 November 2006 (UTC)

The page LOOKS UGLY!? Christ, when did that become a relevant argment? Steel, stop being so creepily fastidious and let's get those images back up. They were the best "Snake Eater" character images I've ever seen, and this page looks like a half-arsed effort without them. As far as using as few pictures as possible goes, one picture for each character is perfectly acceptable. It's not like people are posting entire galleries of concept art and images of the Cobra Unit. How is it that this bureaucratic nonsense always seems to prevail over commonsense? Gamer Junkie 00:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Because elitists think they're above the law and forget everyone can do what they can. In short: Just put the pictures back up and treat them how they treat you. Golden rule from kindergarten, remember?--Snake Liquid 04:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

SHUT THE FUCK UP STEEL. NO ONE LIKES YOU, YOU DIRTY CUNTRAG.

[edit] About Names

Time ago there was some info in The End and in The Pain's files saying that their real names were Vladimir and Claude. What happened with this? It was just a fake or ther weren't actual sources to prove it? I read that Kojima told it,then why you removed the data?

There's also another subject, a hot one.About Big Boss' real name. In the main page it says Jack/John. Either of them can be the real one:

·About Jack: At the beginning of the game Para-Medic asks Snake his real name already knowing that they call him Jack (And they call you Jack for short). If Jack was actually his real name it would be silly to ask his name again.That means Jack is NOT his real name after all. Note also that if you choose the "I like MGS2" option before starting (when Snake weares the Mask) there are a few calls with Major Tom which suggest that for some reason is better to hide Snake's true identity to the gunship crew.

·About John: He tells Para-Medic his name is John Doe trying to hide her his real name, that is something that is clear for everyone. The next time he says his name is John is in the "Last Showdown" with Ocelot, at the same time he says John his mouth turns in a mock expression. He is clarely lying Ocelot, he knows that Ocelot will sure believe it because it's idolic seen of him (that also suggests that Ocelot real name is in fact Adamsksa...). Also when Ocelot sees him off (So we meet again, John) Snake does that mocking smile again.

·About Saladine: It can't be his real name, it's clear that is an alegoric name.

There was a rumour in the net which said that his name was Jack T. Miles,do you know anything else about it?

Black Dollar 9 November 2006

The Jack T. Milles thing was released by some Metal Gear nut when Snake Eater was released, It's not true

†he Bread 02:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

The Cobras' real names were obvious fakes. Ihad seen quite a few sourcebooks and none of them gave them any names besides codenames and their titles in Japanese. Jonny2x4 12:57, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Um Kojima himself commented that Big Boss' name is both Jack and John, he reffered to it as how Bill and William is the same way to say something different. You can hear it in Session 8 of the Kojima Productions Report podcast.DarkAvenger280 04:51, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Error in Raikov section

The protected page has an error in the Raikov section. In the text it correctly says that his English voice actor is Charlie Schlatter and the Japanese actor is Kenyu Horiuchi. However, at the bottom it says that he is voiced by Neil Ross and Kenji Utsumi, the voice actors for Volgin. Please correct this error. Hydra150 17:41, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

• Done. ♠PMC♠ 22:01, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poor translation for The Boss

"Voyevoda ("Woman Warrior")", that is poor translation (either in the game or in the article, dunno what the game says on this). Voyevoda means War Leader or Warchief and in no way, shape or form does it imply anything about a Woman. A note should probably be made to clear it up, as it's either a poor traslation from Japaneese into Russian and subsequently English (in the game) or a mistake in wiki article. Keije 17:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

The game does indeed state that she is known as "Voyevoda" in the Soviet Union. It also says that it roughly translates into English that way. In any case, the title is not a Wikipedia error. Gamer Junkie 06:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the Fear's weapons

the Fear bowgun is little joe

[edit] Grandfather and father.

Let's settle this one and for all. Is Granin's American friend Otacon's father or grandfather? I've seen Japanese sites (including the Japanese Wikipedia) stating one or the other, so that's why I don't consider Muni Shinobu's site reliable. Jonny2x4 03:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Commentary says father, but it's been a while since I saw it, I could be mistaken. why don't we just say relative or something until someones 100% sure

†he Bread ³⁰⁰⁰ 04:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Otacon's father was born on 6th August 1945 (Otacon says this to Snake in Metal Gear Solid) so he would be 19 in 1964.

The problem is that a scenario where Otacon's grandfather is Granin's friend seems more suitable than the American friend being his father. Why would Granin befriend a 19-year-old college student from a rival nation? On the other hand, Granin being a friend of Otacon's grandfather is perfectly plausible, considering he is stated to had been weapon designer as well and Russia were America's allies back in World War II. It is most likely they had met while working together on some projects for the allied forces. Not to mention the guy on Granin's photograph seems to be significantly older than Otacon was in MGS1 (who was already in his 30s, if not in his 20s). Either way, I'm pretty sure Kojima doesn't really care whether it's one way or the other though, since the only reason he put that character connection was to simply say "see, everyone introduced in MGS1 had some plot involvement 20 years in the past."

Also by commentary, do you mean the "Extreme Box" DVD set, the storyline booklet included with the MGS3 Premium Package or the MGS3 scenario book? There has been plenty of official MGS3 commentaries. This is why I don't like to rely solely on Muni Shinobu's site, because the information is scattered and uncategorized in terms of their sources.

Either way, that annonymous editor is starting to get on my nerves and three months is not enough time for a ban.Jonny2x4 06:04, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

As far as I can remember Kojima said it was his father in the DVD, this is backed up by the Shunobu website as unreliable as it is. I'm not an admin I can't ban that guy, though i'd like to. I don't really think it matters too much either way though at present were adding a complicated thing to a shitty article

†he Bread ³⁰⁰⁰ 07:49, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

He's been banned by Steel for three months for now at least. At least he'll think twice before posting flaming someone in the edit summaries. Then again, there's no cure for stupid.

Either way, this article needs a good cleanup. Jonny2x4 20:47, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed needs a sizeable cleanup. And it's good he's been banned. Also just on the Geocities thing on Big Boss i've been trying to source information directly to the DVD rather than the website, but some guy keeps reverting it back. Am I right for doing so, it just seems so much easier to do it that way than messing around with wether or not the site is reliable

†he Bread ³⁰⁰⁰ 21:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Magical blue button of cleanup

Requires popups. -- Steel 19:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Boss

I have revised The Boss' article. Now it has proper and full information. Almost everything is sourced by the game, other sources are well referenced. Although there are a few things that must be added and I can not do it:

 ·Add a few images, for example the classic 3D one, the Shinkawa's art one, and one of the Patriot
and of the grave for example, not only because of the images but the article looks like a brick
and some images would give more presence.
 · Russian names for MiG, Rokovoj Bereg, Voyevoda, Groznyj Grad, Sokolov and Volgin.
 · Japanese name for The Boss.
 · A pair of redirections are not fixed at all, Bay of Pigs Invasion and Shagohod on Nuclear Advanced
Weapon
 · The two last paragraphs are not shown in the article but in the edition mode.

In the next days I'm going to expand also the Cobra Unit article, individually and as a whole. I mean giving a short explanation of what the Cobra Unit is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.59.121.7 (talk) 19:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

Black Dollar 19 February 2007

...Also the article should have a better format that the one I have used. Thanx.

Black Dollar a little after

The End has been "removed" from this article. -User:Mr. Mittens

What happened with the previous article of The Boss? Black Dollar

It wasn't an article it was a section and all you added was plot summary, which you're not meant to do

†he Bread³⁰⁰⁰ 05:29, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Are you telling me that the current "section" provides enough info? Black Dollar 26 February 2007

First things first, I prefer the section you wrote. But; Wiki policies (either WP:WAF or WP:FICT I can't remember which) says you need look at the character from an out of universe POV and not just retell the plot. Look at the List of Metal Gear Solid characters or Solid Snake for an example on how much plot summary to use when talking about a character

†he Bread³⁰⁰⁰ 03:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean that in every place of the section where is explained her role (for example) in the Virtuous Mission, someone writing a section just must say "She participated in the Virtuous Mission"?. When I wrote it I tried to explain plot details that just attain to her, there are things that must be explained anyway. Are you in charge of this section or something? (It is a real question despite of seeming some kind of offence.)

Black Dollar 28 February 2007

Fine do whatever you want, people will revert and reduce what you do though.

†he Bread³⁰⁰⁰ 02:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The end

Is there any reason that the end is missing from the cobra unit section? I cant be bothered adding it myself though. 172.213.27.69 18:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sigint/DARPA? I Think Not...

I'm removing the part about Sigint becoming Donald Anderson in his character part. There isn't enough viable evidence that states this as a fact and not as some wild fan fiction.DarkAvenger280 03:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Hear, hear. I mean sure Sigint and Anderson might both be black and might both have worked for DARPA, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have to be the same. For example, Volgin and Sergei Gurlukovich are both white and have both worked for the GRU, but we don't begin to speculate that they are the same, do we? Likewise, Major Zero and Liquid Snake are both white and both have worked for the SAS, but we don't begin to draw connections between those two, do we? I applaud you, DarkAvenger280.

[edit] The Fury

I'm just wondering something. The Fury doesn't really make a whole lot of sense in the game. He claims to have "come back from space" but this doesn't really make a whole lot of sense considering when the game is set as we are told the only Russian to go into space was Yuri and the only American was The Boss. Apparently MGS3 was orginally going to have much more about NASA and the space race. Is it possible that The Fury is a left over character who would have been more important and made more sense in the orginal concept?

Presumably it was a black op or a top secret mission, as it resulted in failure it was not known by the public. In the other hand it is not fan made that he was burned alive while entering the Earth atmosphere, his face (and possibly his body) is clearly burned. You can see it through the helmet approaching the camera with R1 and also when the Cobra's are presented inside the Hind, he doesn't wear the helmet. There was some failure while his returning to Earth and he got severely burned, as the experiment was not a success it was hidden.

Black Dollar March 20 2007

[edit] Metal Gear PO Jobs

Ok at the end of some of the character bios of those who were playable in Portable Ops there are references saying that they actually one upon a time worked in the occupations that were said in PO. Im sure it's not true because, well it's just absurd. Sure they're real jobs but it's just a petaphor for their skills. For example I'm sure that Major Zero was never a football player, a deliveryman, a politician, a rescuer (what is that even?), and the leader of a top secret black ops unit working for the states. DarkAvenger280 04:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)