Talk:List of German expressions in English

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[edit] Older, miscellaneous discussion

I participated in a long discussion on the Leo forums a couple of years ago on this topic, it is available at http://forum.leo.org/archiv/2002_04/12/20020412185309l_en.html. This topic could be mined for more examples, some of which are quite a bit more common that some of the words appearing here. Also, what's 'LSD' doing in the list? --Don't have a Wiki id yet; I'm pczukor [at] yahoo dot com

[edit] Ansatz, Sitz im Leben and Urtext

Ansatz, Sitz im Leben and Urtext -- three words on this list I've never come across, at least not in "common English". What do they mean? --KF 19:20 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)

Urtext at least is common, though it may be more recognizable in English written as Ur-text, meaning the original text (e.g. the manuscript of a symphony, etc.). -- Someone else 20:50 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
The term Sitz im Leben is used, no English equivalent being available, by scholars applying so-called "form criticism" to Biblical texts. See http://www.bible.gen.nz/amos/glossary/sitz_im_leben.htm - Sebastjan
"Ansatz" has many meanings, see http://dict.leo.org/ for translations. -- 195.33.105.17 16:32, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Lederhose(n)

WRT Lederhose: in modern usage, Hose in the singular form does indeed mean one piece of clothing, however, the plural form Hosen may still be understood to mean one piece of clothing as well as more than one. This is supposedly due to the fact that some time two pieces of clothing (one for each leg) were united to form one piece, but the plural form remained in use until today. Kosebamse 19:46 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)

It may just as well be the other way round. As you say, Sie trug eine Hose. "She was wearing trousers." is the same as Sie trug Hosen. However, I think the strong influence of English on German is responsible for the use of the plural for one piece of clothing. Can you substantiate your claim? (I can't.) --KF 19:59 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
Well, perhaps I can. "Kluge, Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache", 23rd ed., says under "Hose":
[...] so bezeichnet wurde ursprünglich eine Art Strümpfe, die an der eigentlichen Hose [...] befestigt waren (deshalb noch nhd. [i.e. Neuhochdeutsch] ein paar Hosen u.ä.) [...]
which could be very roughly translated as:
term for a kind of stockings which were fastened to the "Hose" proper (therefore still in recent High German a pair of trousers)
Of course it is quite possible that the similar English form had some influence but the Kluge doesn´t mention this. Kosebamse 20:23 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
Thanks! KF 20:26 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
There is strong evidence, that the plural is the old form. In Low Saxon Büxen (pl.) is used in phrases, like "Se hett de Büxen an, nich ehr Mann" (She wears the trousers, not her husband). In Danish, it is "bukser", too. The use of the singular "Büx" is of younger date.Hansa
Another Typing is for one trouser is "Buchs"/"Buchse" (the "chs" in this sounds like "x" and you can also replace it with, like "Buxe"). L-Hosen: The bavarians also speak "Lederhosen"/"Lederhosn" and they are meaning one trouser. That very difficult to understand for high german speakers, too. 84.137.171.229 23:00, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Delicatessen

I know little to nothing about word origins, but I was under the impression that "Delicatessen" came from French, not German ... ? Or is it originally from French, Germans took it, and we anglicized the German word? TimmyD 07:14 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)

I´m not quite sure. In German "Delikatessen" and the adjective "delikat" are in daily use. Seems quite possible that the word is originally French. Kosebamse 10:22 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)

"Essen" isn't French. "Délicat" is and is, thus, an import from French to German. "Delikatessen" is, therefore, German and it has been Anglicised to "delicatessen". I know of "deli" as an American abbreviation (not widely used in British English), but is that used in German? www.danon.co.uk

I think we are close to understanding why Internet fora aren't necessarily a good place to do scholarly research on etymology… The German word Delikatessen is not a compound of delikat and Essen. It's the plural of eine Delikatesse. My Duden 5 (Fremdwörter) gives no information about the etymology. Arbor 19:29, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Info from German Wikipedia: "Delikatesse (frz. délicat "zart", "fein", délicatesse "Feinheit", "Subtilität")" and it is commonly used in German since 16th century

TimmyD got it right. The word was borrowed from French into German, whence it entered English. --Simha 11:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What counts?

Clearly there is a huge area for confusion. After all, "Gesundheit" is not in common use in English - unless you are assuming the US dialect. If this article is talking about expressions in use across dialects (i.e., if single dialect use is ipso facto uncommon), it needs thinning out and a policy statement showing what to avoid. PML.

I think we shouldn't be too strict about this. If this is still a brainstorming phase, let's try and find some more expressions. I can hardly believe that there aren't more German words in English, considering that the other way round we are presented with an altogether different situation.
I think it was correct to remove Gymnasium though. This word belongs to false friends. Hopefully no one is going to start on Yiddish expressions here. --KF 23:25 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)
I wouldn't say US expressions are uncommon, AFAIK, there are more 1st lang english speakers in the US than in the UK, and US eng is also often being learnt as a 2nd language. (I don't know which type is being learnt most commonly, though, although US eng seems more popular in Asia.)

As fas as I know "Gesundheit" is used in the USA but only as an interjection and not in the meaning of health.--62.47.93.204 23:38, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lager, Dachshund

Not sure about the etymology, but lager is probably a false friend. It is indeed German for warehouse and not in common use with the meaning of lager beer. And Dachshund, althouogh of German origin, is not used in German, (instead Dackel), so I would not list it here. I think this is supposed to be a list of words that are used and recognized as German words. If we would list here any word of German origin in the English language...erm, good luck with the task, but it might belong to Wiktionary or somewhere else. Kosebamse 05:58 May 10, 2003 (UTC)

"Dachs" and "Hund" are two german words and "Dachshund" (shortened "Dackel") is german origin, but not often used (instead of Dackel). 84.137.171.229 23:12, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Muesli, Nestle

For the sake of encyclopedic-ness, I would like to add that Muesli is Swiss German rather than High German, or to be even more precise, it looks much a like variant of High German as the Swiss would use it, the word itself perhaps being derived from a Swiss German diminutive of Mus (meaning mash). Kosebamse 13:03 May 13, 2003 (UTC)

Nestle (the swiss company) is also just a swiss word for the gernam/english Nest (just have a look at the logo). Fantasy
Müsli is commonly used in germany for cereals

[edit] A Germlish story

After the Putsch, the Bundespräsident, not a born Übermensch, and his Doberman pinscher were seeking Gemütlichkeit. They went to the Oktoberfest by U-Bahn, showing no signs of Angst, and the president had several lagers and spritzers there. His doggie ate a bratwurst, while his master started singing a lied about Weltschmerz. At that point the Kapellmeister stopped eating his Sauerkraut and joined in.

Seriously, there is something wrong with this list, but I'm not quite sure what. I would like to encourage native speakers of English from all over the world to have a look at it. Together we might be able to improve it a bit. --KF 16:03 May 13, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] pronunciation guides

Just a note for people who want to add pronunciation guides in the future (I just fixed a couple)... the letter "w" in German is pronounced like the English "v" always. Thus, Volkswagen is pronounced "folksvagen". I know most English speakers pronounce it differently, but I believe it should be noted correctly here. -- Djmutex 11:40 20 May 2003 (UTC)

[edit] renaming this list and leaving out the "common" in the title

What about renaming this list and leaving out the "common" in the title? Who can say what is "common" and what isn't? There must be millions of English speakers all over the world who have never in their lives used any of the words in this list. Any comments? --KF 16:38 25 May 2003 (UTC)

No comments. Well then, the inclusion of Methodenstreit was the last straw. --KF 18:45 27 May 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Regierungsbezirk

This list looks increasingly off to me. Now, I'm German and thus may not have a good feel for this list, but Regierungsbezirk?!? Has any native English speaker not living in Germany ever used that word? djmutex 19:11 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I agree (see 13 May 2003 above). Not every German word that crops up somewhere in Wikipedia is also being used in English, but it seems difficult to decide where to draw the line. I'll remove Regierungsbezirk: I imagine the vast majority of German speakers have never in their lives used this word. --KF 19:42 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Bezirk, Zeitschrift, Bundesliga, Bundespräsident

There are lots of words here which don't belong on this list. Where are Bezirk or Zeitschrift used in English? And I don't think proper names of institutions or organizations like Bundesliga or Bundespräsident belong there. --Wik 18:17, Aug 23, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] (d'oh!)

what about nonillion? it's not really common, it's not really german but from latin, i think. -- german user

[edit] words of common origin

It seems this list features mainly words that migrated from German to English in the 20th century. Would it be okay to add words like Hand, Finger, Ring, Winter, Gold, Name, Warm, Bank, Sand... to this list too? Or are these too long in the English language to be known for their German origin? -- 195.33.105.17 12:08, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Those aren't of german origin, they are of Germanic origin (as is English itself). There is a difference. Morwen 12:15, Jan 30, 2004 (UTC)
I see. I added a note explaining this difference. -- 195.33.105.17 16:32, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[edit] organized list

I've organized this list into several categories based on frequency in English. Most of these words are very, very rare in English, and I don't want to give non-native speakers the impression that, say, "rosenkavalier" or "gleichschaltung" are used as commonly in English as are "kindergarten" or "bratwurst". I've likely missed a few. I'm going to break out the "academic contexts" section by discipline, since it's getting too big, but not tonight. (though feel free to dig in if you're bored.) Kwertii 02:13, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Comment - where can I find this organized list? I'd love to see a grouping of these words into common, rare, academic/scientific, and "appear to have been included as a joke" categories.

JT docedemayo@yahoo.com

[edit] 11 months later

I just came across this page after I started it about 11 months ago and are amazed how great it evolved. Thanks all. BTW, the categories are great.

[edit] de:Germanismus

See also http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanismus Stern 02:34, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Where do we draw the line?

This is getting a little out of hand. I'm a native English speaker and I've never, ever heard most of these terms used in English. Where do we draw the line? Kwertii 23:48, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hi Kwertii, These words are used by people with all sorts of specializations, often academic specializations. Probably no one native speaker of English knows them all, but collectively, the population of English speakers does know them all. I can assure you that musicologists really do talk about Kapellmeisters, historians about Kristallnacht, linguists about ablaut, and so on.
Kwertii's plaint does raise the question of whether this page is useful to anybody--surely, anyone who wanted to know what a Kapellmeister is would visit Kapellmeister, and not this page. I personally find the list worthwhile because it gives an overview of how the German-speaking cultures have influenced the English-speaking ones. Opus33 00:49, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
One, I've seen many of these words -- even though many are specialized -- in English works. Two, it's useful to time these words all together, even if they are also accessible individually.
Indeed, I stumbled upon this looking for a list of abbreviations used in Das Dritte Reich (in that the right article?) because several are listed in Primo Levi's The Drowned and the Saved, and some of them I didn't know. (The abbreviations I don't know: RKAP, WVHA -- the ones I do: NSDAP, SS, SA, SD, KZ, RSHA, BDM). Ah, Google tells me that WVHA is Wirtschaftsverwaltungshauptamt: "The WVHA was responsible for all administration, economic and construction affairs of the SS".
Is there a particular reason that the euphemistic category "History" is used on the page, rather than having a separate category for Nazi-era expressions -- especially as almost all the expressions listed under "History" are from Das Dritte Reich or are military terms (Kanone, Soldaten, Oberstleutnant)? orthogonal 01:04, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Zeitgeber

Would "Zeitgeber" be best transliterated as "time-giver" or "tide-giver"? Just wondering, since german Zeit seems to have both meanings...

its "time-giver", "Zeit" for tide isn't very usual, its "Flut" or "Gezeiten". "Zeit" is time. "Zeitgeber" is usually a technical thing which gives a signal in a special frequency.
Agreed. Am changing "tide-giver" to "time-giver" in the list. Not that I know German, but I see this word used in articles about and studies of circadian rhythms.

[edit] List in the German Wikipedia

Please have a look at this list in the German wikipedia: de:Liste deutscher Fremdwörter in anderen Sprachen--MKI 16:26, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The german Wiki people seem to think it is "grottenschlecht", though... I guess that means "horrendously bad" or something similar...

[edit] Verklemmt

I think Verklemmt is from Yiddish, rather than German. German seem to have a similar word "Beklemmend"/"Beklommen", instead.

The german use "verklemmt" too, its "uptight".
It came from the german family of words "klemmen", "geklemmt", "abklemmen", ... 84.137.171.229

...and a rather humorous expression for "male homosexual" would be "Klemmschwester"

[edit] fahrvergnugen

wasn't it BMW's advertisement?

I think so Sebastian 00:47, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)
no, it was volkswagen --213.39.161.22 11:19, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Neubauten

Discussion copied from User talk:Kuratowski's Ghost

I just noticed that you reverted my correction of the statement that "Neubau" refers to a style. I won't revert it again – i'm tired of edit wars with people who don't adequately back up their POV. But i wonder why you did that. You just have been called erudite, and you certainly don't seem like a rash POV contributor. But neither am i. As you can check in my history, if i change a statement, then i only do so when i know what i'm doing.

The term "Neubau" has been used in the meaning "new building" since the 18th century, according to Duden: Das Herkunfswörterbuch. It is not listed as an style in either Wilfried Koch: Baustilkunde, Orbis Verlag, 1994 or dtv-Atlas zur Baukunst, dtv, 1981. Do you have any serious reference that defines it as a style? — Sebastian (T) 21:54, 2005 Apr 17 (UTC)

Well its something repeated over and over in articles about the band and can be found in the rec.music.industrial FAQ for example. Kuratowski's Ghost 22:35, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

From Einstürzende Neubauten

"The band's name is a marvelously compact poetical phrase and does not translate easily into English. "Imploding new buildings" is the main meaning. However "Einsteurtzende" is "Imploding" as an adjective not a verb - i.e. new buildings that are busy collapsing, falling down. But "Neubauten" is not just new buildings in general, it can also refer to a specific style of architecture, faceless concrete monoliths."

From RMI FAQ

"Neubauten" generally refers to buildings built in a particular style, rather than to any recently constructed buildings. The style in question is the impersonal concrete-box modernist style. Most housing projects (especially the huge towers built in the 60's) are perfect examples of Neubauten."

From Einstürzende Neubauten

Einstürzende Neubauten translates to "collapsing new buildings," which could be misunderstood as a desire to get a wreaking ball and set about town. In fact the name refers to buildings built in Germany after the Second World War that were so poorly constructed, they literally just collapsed

Kuratowski's Ghost 02:55, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---- Now i see where you're coming from. How about: "The term has been used since the 18th century to mean just "new building". For the band this evokes the image of buildings built during the Wiederaufbau (whatever that translates to in English), which were ..."?

What seems to be important for the band, and what distinguishes the buildings of that era is that they were cheap – following the sheer necessity of providing shelter for as many people as possible as quickly as possible with very limited resources. Style is not the issue – in fact, stylistic considerations were an unaffordable luxury. But if you want to give it a name, use the correct name: functionalism.

In short, defining "Neubau" as "buildings built during a certain time" makes as little sense as defining "baby" to mean "anyone born between 2004 and 2005". Much as i love music – please let’s leave the definition of architectural styles to architects. — Sebastian (T) 06:22, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)

  • I agree with you, Sebastian. WLD 07:35, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)


I don't know what the right answer on this word. However the fact that it has been in use since the 18th century doesn't mean it can't commonly refer to post WWII buildngs now. Meanings often change. In fact the same thing has happened in English. In Jane Austen's "Pride and Predjudice" (written at the end of the 18th century) she describes Mr. Darcy's house in Derbyshire a "modern building." Yet if you described something as a modern building today in America it would refer to a particular architectural style that did not exist in Jane Austen's time. Jenn

The meaning of "Neubau" (pl. "Neubauten") has changed in the last years since WWII. Buildings build before WWII are called "Altbau" (lit. old building). "Neubau" is the opposite of "Altbau" (build after WWII). "Altbauten" have thick walls, high ceilings and are mostly decorated at the outside.

The architectural style you talking of might be "Bauhaus".


[edit] Spelling

Since we're talking about German imports to English, it would be useful (and accurate) if, in lists, non-proper nouns did not have an initial capital letter. For example: "angst".

[edit] German words that have no English counterparts

Is there a translation for the following?

Nesthäkchen
Somewhat endearing term for a child who is so much younger than the rest of his/her siblings that he/she remains in the nest while all the others flown out. (Sebastian (talk) 21:40, 2005 Jun 9 (UTC))
"Is there a translation for the following? Nesthäkchen:" Yes: "Family-baby", the smallest of the children, therefore being most loved by all the members of the family. Hans Rosenthal (hans.rosenthal AT t-online.de -- replace AT by @ )

In America we call such a person "the baby of the family." However it is often shortened to simply "the baby" with an emphasis on "the." Such as "Janie's the baby." There doesn't have a large age gap. It's more about the attitude that comes from being catered to and having more relaxed rules.

"Afterthought" maybe? It's a bit unkind, but perhaps closer than "baby of the family", because it suggests a long interval. TobyJ 13:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dieser Wiki-Artikel hat mich wirklich beeindruckt

An alle Beiträger und vor allem den Schöpfer dieses Wiki-Artikels: Hut ab ! Ich bin beeindruckt ! Hans Rosenthal (hans.rosenthal AT t-online.de -- ersetze AT durch @ )

Hans Rosenthal? Wir sind der Meinung: Das ist spitzeeee!--131.130.122.144 18:06, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Danke für das Kompliment. Wenn man drinsteckt, hat man wahrscheinlich ein verzerrtes Bild; da ist es gut, von einem Außenstehenden zu hören. — Sebastian (talk) 05:01, 2005 Jun 18 (UTC)

[edit] Worth adding a comment

that use of the term Rucksack is more common, for example, in some parts of Pennsylvania? 69.72.8.228 23:56, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Advertising campaigns

If Fahrvergnügen caused puzzlement in the US, what about the "Vorsprung durch Technik" Audi campaign in the UK ?

[edit] Iceberg

Iceberg ([Eisberg]) is a German expression. Can it be added to the list? (I didn't want to start adding things without a consensus.) (Maaya 04:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC))

No, I think the English word is of Dutch or Scandinavian origin, so it doesn't count. It's just that the German word is a close cognate or calque based on the same roots. 惑乱 分からん 21:07, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
It's a half-calque of the Dutch word ijsberg.Cameron Nedland 18:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quartz

I added the note at 'quartz' about Slavic origin. Amer Her and "Breve diccionario etimológico de la lengua española" by Guido Gómez de Silva (ISBN 968-16-2812-8) both agree on this point.--Hraefen 19:13, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Military ranks

Do Major and General really belong here? Those articles don't mention a German origin - in fact, Major mentions an English one. --Mr2001 13:59, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

"Major" and "General" are German military ranks. But AFAIK they are rather of Latin origin than German.--Gr8tmir 23:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

  • They are both indeed of Latin origin and as such do not belong here, but this list suffers from that same problem in many words. But hey, go for it.--Hraefen 00:47, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I suggest to delete categories "Military ranks" and "Noble titles" completely. IMHO they do not fit into this list. These terms are not used in english language in other ways but as untranslated german proper nouns. (Like tenno or tsar or shah as titles of emperors in other countries and languages.) I think nobody would call an ensign of the british or US or any other but the german armee Fähnrich.--131.130.122.144 00:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] error

... Über Alles (originally "Deutschland über Alles"; now used by extension in other cases, as in the Dead Kennedys song "California Über Alles"). Incidentally (and ironically), this part of the German national hymn has become prohibited by law after WW2, as it is thought to have been used to propagate the attitude of racial and national superiority in Nazi Germany, as in the phrase "shall rule over all".

-not true, this part has not become prohibited Ahoh

Right. I fixed it some time ago, it still seems to be ok. The full song with all three verses has been the official national anthem up to 1991, although by convention only the third one was performed on official occasions. Only in 1991, after reunification, did the third verse alone become the national anthem. --Stephan Schulz 18:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fahrvergnugen is common

It's the standard name of a basic "grind" in Aggressive_skating. The pronunciation/spelling is shortened or approximated as "Nugen", "Fart-for-nugen", "Far-fer-nugen", "Farf", etc.

examples from Be-Mag include: http://be-mag.com/skatepictures/show/100 http://be-mag.com/skatepictures/show/44 http://be-mag.com/skatepictures/show/99

Also see the article Fahrvergnugen for more information.

[edit] Suggestions for new words

I don't know how common these words are, but they appeared in ordinary BBC news articles:

I'd ask all English native spreakers to put these words in the appropriate domain ('common' or 'specialised')

OK, it's called "gummy bear", and granted, that might be a folk etymology of Gummibär, but gummy is an English word (akin to gum) which btw. both English and German has borrowed from Late Latin "gummi" (English perhaps from French). All words that are similar in English and German aren't necessarily borrowings from German. 惑乱 分からん 10:20, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestions for yet another new word - schlep/schleppen

to schlep (drag or haul) - schleppen ( to carry something slowly, tediously, awkwardly)

"Schlep" is from Yiddish, not German... 惑乱 分からん 23:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
the way i understand it, meriam webster disagrees with you http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=schlep
It does? "Schleppen" is a German word typically used in colloquial contexts. It entered English via Yiddish (which, of course, borrows heavily from German), where it is used more frequently than in modern German. --Stephan Schulz 09:33, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, Meriam-Webster states that it comes from Yiddish, originally from the Low German dialectal continuum (Otherwise, it would be "schleffen", I think...) Btw, I wouldn't say that Yiddish "borrows heavily" from German, rather that since it has evolved from similar languages/dialects in the continuum, a huge amount of the vocabulary would naturally be similar. But, as far as I have interpreted the list, it should contain borrowings from Standard High German, (Yiddish has a separate page), not similar languages such as Yiddish, Low German, Afrikaans and Dutch... (It might include Swiss German "müsli", though, but that's an exception.) 惑乱 分からん 10:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
"schleppen" REALLY is a very commonly used verb in (modern) Standard High German like stated in the first comment. It is also commonly used as a noun, e.g. "Schlepper", meaning 1. either a machine designed to pull something e.g. a ship or a tractor or 2. as a professional who illegally helps immigrants to cross state borders (which is a very "modern" occupation :-). So in my opinion, to schlep DOES belong to the list. Olagorie 16:25, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but the word is not used for these more common meanings in English. In English it is akin to "hauling", and implies physical effort. --Stephan Schulz 20:30, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
And, further EMPHASIZING the YIDDISH origin, it is, by definition, NOT a "German expression in English". Sorry to be harsh... 惑乱 分からん 23:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I have to disagree with Wakuran here. 1) Yiddish is German. It's based on Middle High German dialects. Due to its history, it has a strong admixture of Hebrew (partly Aramaic) and, later, Slavonic lexems. Standard German doesn't do this article justice, as many, many expressions are regional in German. 2) 'Schleppen', as has been mentioned, is indeed regular Standard German. At least where I live, you can call a heavy laptop a 'Schlepptop'. Also, words of Yiddish (Hebrew) origin still abound in Modern German, varying according to region. I grew up with words like 'Schmiere stehen' = "stand guard" (when stealing apples as kids), the first element < Hebrew _shmirah_ 'watch, guard'. Another example is 'meschugge' < _meshugga'_ "crazy". There are dozens and dozens of "Yiddish" words in Modern German and it would be totally artificial to try to dissect German into 'Yiddish' vs 'Non-Yiddish'. Lastly, it should be noted that up until the end of WW2, Yiddish (and colloquial German) were always open for borrowings from Standard German. --Simha 11:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Still disagree. Yiddish is considered a different language than German, although they have many similarities, and if the word was not explicitly borrowed from German, it shouldn't be considered a "German expression in English", even if the word is commonly used in standard German. English words of Yiddish origin has a separate article... 惑乱 分からん 15:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal

List of German expressions in English and List of German words and phrases heavily overlap. Which is not surprising, because they are updated often independently. This is a classicle example of a harmful article fork: waste of duplicated effort. `'mikka (t) 07:17, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Oppose - List of German words and phrases is purely alphabetically arranged, whereas List of German expressions in English seems to be topic based, with some exegesis. There's room for both, and both are useful. WLD 11:43, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Einstein quote: Word order

I changed "The Lord is subtle, but He is not malicious" to "Subtle is the Lord, but malicious He is not" for two reasons:

  1. The latter is much more commonly used to quote Einstein (note that the well-known Einstein biography by Abraham Pais is entitled Subtle is the Lord).
  2. "Raffiniert ist der Herrgott, aber boshaft ist er nicht" is not the standard word order in German. One would write "Der Herrgott ist raffiniert aber [er ist] nicht boshaft". By changing the word order Einstein put emphasis on subtle and malicious. This is reflected in the translation by using precisely the same means in English that Einstein used in English.

Perhaps the Einstein quote was contributed by a someone who was not aware that Einstein has not only been a famous scientist but also a master of subtle (look, that word again :-) formulations. -- 213.196.192.151 14:03, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

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